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G&G L85 broken


sniper vinny

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Hey all

 

If you dont want to read this nagging essay, basicaly what i am asking is, "has anyone else had technical problems with a G&G L85??"

 

I first bought a G&G L85 from airsoft warehouse around 2 months ago, which promptly broke.... (had been downgraded by them). I then recieved it, repaired, and so i used it for around 150 rounds before it broke again..... I sent it back and asked for a refund, but they said that a refund would be subject to a 20% re-stocking fee.

 

As i read on their website, it says "Any goods returned that have no fault as confirmed by our engineers will be subject to a 20% re-stocking charge"

 

Notice the "any good that have no fault"...?? why then am i being chrged a re-stocking fee when my good are faulty?

 

So instead they send me a brand new L85 (again downgraded by them), and after firing one or two mags, this one breaks again. This is where i have drawn the line. I am guessing it is G&G's parts, but i would just like to know if anyone else has a G&G l85 and has had more luck than i have??

 

Vince

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key question: Did you disable blowback?

 

If you didn't I'm afraid you've not really a leg to stand on.

 

However if blowback was disabelled then just keep phoning them, be honest and polite and they'll probably be quite helpful. AW have a reputation for being quite helpful if your not rude with them, but they can be a real pain in the backside when provocked.

 

Alternatively maybe ask them if you can have another gun + accessories to the value of your L85?

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I managed to break the cocking handle on mine(yes i mean snap it off). Airsoft warehouse were cool with it, and it got to them tuesday of this week, and i got it back fixed yesterday. Truely astronomical service. Best airsoft retailer it has ever been my pleasure to deal with. I will definately buy from them again.

 

Whilst there have been some problems with the G&G L85s i have heard about, i have had little to no trouble internally with mine. My only problem is my battery doesnt seem to be able to throw the heat in the G&G like it does in my CA36k. It locks up alot more often, and the rate of fire is slightly worse, but thats without the blowback disabled on a well worn 8.4V.

 

I did find that my iron sights wouldnt adjust upwards enough to but the needle on the place where my BB lands(no hop applyed). Strange, but true.

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Well internaly, both the L85's i have had have been a disaster. I went through the manual both times and did exactly what was suggested when firing. Yet still, when they both broke, i heard the wihning noise comming from the inside, and mabye this suggests that it is a recurring problem with the parts they are using. What i cant understand is why no one else seems to have had a problem with theirs internaly....???

 

And yes prolific, i disabled the blowback on both the guns before i even fired them, as i wasnt taking any chances...

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I agree that there seems to be a systematic problem with at least some of them. I'm wondering if because of the 'reversed' gearbox setup its maybe more prone to break if people aren't 'smooth' with the trigger. It would explain how several people have managed to run through 2 or 3 L85s whilst some people like me have been very happy with just the one.

 

It worries me because everyone is describing the same 'whinning noise' from the gearbox. In any case we shall have to see if G&G come up with a fix. To their credit they do try and resolve problems on thier older models, rather than just do an ICS or CA and bring out a new one.

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key question: Did you disable blowback?

 

If you didn't I'm afraid you've not really a leg to stand on.

 

However if blowback was disabelled then just keep phoning them, be honest and polite and they'll probably be quite helpful. AW have a reputation for being quite helpful if your not rude with them, but they can be a real pain in the backside when provocked.

 

Alternatively maybe ask them if you can have another gun + accessories to the value of your L85?

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??????

 

Seriously, mate, I got half way through typing out the reason for your -1 before deciding you didn't deserve it but, FFS, that is the most screwed-up post I've read in a LONG while!

 

It's his own fault when the gun breaks if he didn't disable the blowback?

 

Dude, G&G put the blowback in there as a feature. If it causes damage to the gun then that's just poor design. It's certainly not the owners fault for not correcting their poor design.

Honestly, where do you get off telling people stuff like this?

 

Utter, utter nonsense.

 

Vinny, I suggest you phone up AW and POLITELY tell them you're not satisfied that the gun works reliably and that, having had every gun they've sent you break, you want a refund.

 

If they refuse then you might point out that AW are in breach of the Trades Descriptions Act 1968 and the Consumer Protection Act 1987. Specifically, the sections relating to their duty as a retailer to supply goods which are fit for the purpose they are intended for.

 

Obviously, AW won't be keen to hear this so, if it gets to this point, you'd better be damned sure you're prepared to back up words with actions.

 

HERE is a link to the relavent part of the CPA but if you click the other links on that site it'll tell you how to go about taking action in the small claims court, should it come to that.

 

Bottom line is that you're paying £300-odd for a gun and AW telling you that they're going to take £60-odd off you because you were unfortunate enough to buy a poor item is simply not on.

It's supposed to be THEIR duty, as a retailer, to ensure they are selling goods of merchantable quality. The CANNOT just say "Meh! It's a sh*tty product. We aint taking the fall for it."

Sorry but that is what retailers are f**King-well SUPPOSED to do. That's why retailers exist and people don't just buy and sell stuff on street corners.

 

Sorry if I sound a bit irate but hobbyists getting ripped-off by half-assed retailers is something that makes me sick to my stomach.

 

Phone em up, ask em for a full refund. Be polite at all times. If they won't give it to you, ask em why. Tell them that you feel they're in breach of the TDA and CPA because they're not selling goods of merchantable quality which are fit for the intended purpose. Ask them again if they'll honour their responsibility as a retailer.

If they say no then get in touch with the Citizens advice bureau who will tell you what forms to fill in in order to claim your money back in court.

 

Bear in mind that it costs about £40 to file a claim in the SCC. If you win, as you should - given that the guns clearly are faulty, you will be awarded damages which cover the cost of the court action as well. You'll get the £40 back.

 

 

Oh and, incidentally, yes. I suspect everybody who's used a G&G L85 in more than a cursory way has experienced damage.

Personally, mine has chewed its way through 3 piston, 2 sets of gears and the cocking handle snapped off while the gun was lying in the boot of my car. :(

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Isn't it odd how the L85 has tones of problems just like its origional real-steel counterpart.

 

:rolleyes:

 

No, its not. What is "odd" though is how everytime an airsoft L85 has a problem, someone says either what you just said, or "this never happens to TM guns, TM am teh b3st3st 111+!!!!"

 

Its just pathetic. Everything man-made fails at some point, and needs maintenance of some sort. Nothing lasts forever

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Yup. My L85 broke within 50 rounds going through it, hadnt even had the time to set the hop properly.

 

Stripped all the teeth on the spur gear and one from the sector gear. There looked to be a slight wear mark on the second tooth on the piston.

Blowback action was not disabled at the time, but it is still intact. It is now disabled to see if it fares any better without it.

 

G&G are currently sending me replacement parts seeing as this was purchased from HK.

 

To be honest, I have noticed some play in the gears, so check the shimming and that the first tooth (the big one) on the sector gear did not mesh very well with the first groove on the piston. It appeared fractionally too large.

 

Anyway, we shall see how we get on.

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i have knachered my piston out of mainly my own stupidity ,AW have sorted it out but a stern Email to G+G got me sent spare pistons and a spare packet of blowback hook along with the new G+G made protective plate (i already have a UK made one fitted)

they also sent me some lovely new postcards :unsure:

 

it looks like the customer service is much better than the manufacturing department :P

 

They even replied within an hour of my email a couple of times!

 

Another guy from our team bought a G+G MP5 and has had several problems with it but his GR300 which he has used a lot more has been superb.

 

Anyone buying a G+G product I would advise should wait for the 2nd or even 3rd batch to come out as all the bugs tend to get fixed quite quickly after the first run.

 

EDIT - I'm considering taking the 2nd tooth off the piston to see if that helps with the pistons as a lot of high power or high ROF aegs benifit from this

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Nothing lasts forever

 

True, but as Stealth Bomber has said, you have the right to have the product match reasonable expectations, and if it doesn't you are entitled to a full refund.

 

The point here is the reasonable expectation. An AEG which breaks after 500 shots, is not a reasonable life expectancy. :flamed:

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True, but as Stealth Bomber has said, you have the right to have the product match reasonable expectations, and if it doesn't you are entitled to a full refund.

 

The point here is the reasonable expectation. An AEG which breaks after 500 shots, is not a reasonable life expectancy.  :flamed:

 

Yeah thats true, I wasn't disagreeing with what stealthbomber said at all, in fact I think its the best advise I've ever seen posted on these forums.

 

I was purely stating the fact that what csem-it said about the real-steel L85 was utter rubbish, and comparing weither an airsoft guns internals are as reliable as its real-steel counterpart is utterly ridiculous, and specualtive at best, with no real evidence to back it up. Along with the fact that they both have different systems, different amount of parts and made from different materials just makes no basis for comparison at all

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G&G are in the process of sending me new gears and piston.

 

I dunno whether to fit them or just save myself the effort of opening up the gun and just grind the teeth down with my dremel. :P

 

Seriously, I'm also miffed cos my cocking handle snapped off and I meant to blag a new one of those as well but forgot to mention it. :(

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Well stealthbomber, i must agree with you. If i buy an AEG for £300 and a 1 year warranty, i expect it to be able to handle a few 1 second full auto bursts.

 

Thankyou for the link as well, i will make sure that AW send me a full refund.

 

I must admit that there overall service has been very good and from my experience they were very understanding when talked to politley.

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Well, that didn't take long.

Got the gearbox reassembled. Tried moving the sector gear around by hand and noticed the semi cut-off lever didn't do the job any more.

I played with it for a while with no joy and assumed the problem was that the cam on the PSG1 gear wasn't as big as the G&G one.

 

Stripped the gearbox down again and refitted the damaged G&G gear, just to if the cut-off cam operated the lever.

It didn't.

 

Looking at the cut-off lever it seems that it has worn down to the point where it no longer works. When the gun died I was using it in a skirmish firing bursts so I wouldn't have noticed the problem with the lever.

 

So, seems that the semi cut-off lever is broken now.

 

What a f**king pile of sh*t. :(

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WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??????

 

Seriously, mate, I got half way through typing out the reason for your -1 before deciding you didn't deserve it but, FFS, that is the most screwed-up post I've read in a LONG while!

 

Do you drive a car?

 

Let me use my famous airsoft-car anaolgy. In driving a car you accept that at some point in your driving life you will probably have at least one flat tyre, most people have 5-10 or more. Its an inevitable consequence of driving that just happens due to a culmination of unfortunate but unavoidable events. Because of this tyres are a modular component of cars which can be quickly (and fairly cost effectively) replaced. In the same sense that say the roof of a car isn't a modular component.

 

If you have that flat tyre at 75mph on the motorway the chance is that you will probably die. However in driving that car, on that road, you accepted that death was a potential and sometimes sadly unavoidable outcome.

 

Now consider the G&G L85... In firing the gun with blowback enabled you are accepting that at some point that latch might/will break. If the latch were made of steel, if the bolt got caught on your webbing that would be transmitted via the unbreakable latch to the gearbox and would f**k it royally. Literally every key component would be broken. However the latch is made to break, a sort of purposeful weak link to prevent severe damage to the gearbox. The issue arrises because every now and again debris from teh broken latch enters the gearbox.

 

The two situations are directly comprable. If your going to be a p!ss ant about the blowback on the G&G L85 then don't buy one or disable it. Don't bring your hang-ups to me. In the same sense if you don't want to risk death don't drive a car on the motorway.

 

Yours is the attitude which makes airsoft such a pain the *albartroth* sometimes. Because you wont accept that the mechanism inside an airsoft gun is a violent and powerful one which will break. However because it will break eventually the parts are designed to be easy to replace. Get over it. Accpet it. Instead you p!ss and whine when it breaks. Honestly, why do you think that on most guns getting a replacement foregrip or stock is nearly impossible. Yet replacement gears are cheap and easy to come by and install? (Obvious exceptions being the plefora of aftermarket parts for armalites).

 

£300 for a G&G L85A1 is a bargain, I know because I own one and love it. I would pay it again happily. If you arent willing to commit that amount of money to it then don't buy one. No one is forcing you to. Go p!ss and whine eslewhere.

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Do you drive a car?

 

Let me use my famous airsoft-car anaolgy. In driving a car you accept that at some point in your driving life you will probably have at least one flat tyre, most people have 5-10 or more. Its an inevitable consequence of driving that just happens due to a culmination of unfortunate but unavoidable events. Because of this tyres are a modular component of cars which can be quickly (and fairly cost effectively) replaced. In the same sense that say the roof of a car isn't a modular component.

Is this analogy famous for being nonsense?

 

Can you honestly not see the difference?

If a car gets a flat tyre it's because OUTSIDE INFLUENCES have caused damage to a tyre.

Answer me this: If a car was released which had bodywork which rubbed on the tyre and caused a puncture, would THAT be acceptable?

 

The G&G L85 is designed to do a job. It's designed, built and sold on the understanding that it has a working blowback feature.

Telling somebody that it's their own fault if their gun breaks if they fail to disable the blowback is insane.

 

Allow me to give you a list of what's gone wrong with my G&G L85 in 2 months of ownership, after disabling the blowback and fitting a 1J spring:-

1 broken blowback hook.

3 stripped pistons.

2 stripped gears.

1 worn semi cut-off lever.

1 snapped cocking handle.

 

To put that in context, I own the following AEGs:-

TM MP5K.

TM P90TR

TM G3SG1

TM M1A1

TM FAMAS F1

CA M15 Carbine

CA MP5SD2

ICS MP5A3

ICS M4A1

Academy L85

TOP M60DX.

 

ALL the above guns have (at least) been fitted with 1J upgrades (except the MP5K) and metal bushes. Several have had pistons, gears and cylinders replaced with upgraded parts.

They've all been stripped down and played with at some point or another.

The ONLY, single, failure I've ever had on any of my AEGs has been a stripped spur gear on the G3 during the installation of an airbrake on it.

 

So, I'll leave it up to anybody else to decide if it's likely that I've suddenly become a ham-fisted moron when it comes to servicing the G&G L85.

 

In my experience, and that of the overwhelming majority of owners, is that it's a sub-standard item.

If yours is working well then good luck to you. You have a rare gun.

 

Go p!ss and whine eslewhere.

Gee. Thanks for that. Pretty harsh isn't it?

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