Angry Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I sold mine because I wasn't prepared to keep shipping it back to AW. In all honesty I'm glad to see the back of it. Link to post Share on other sites
dechande Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 i haven't had a single problem with mine, (touch wood). what do you people do with yours lol?? Link to post Share on other sites
Prolific Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 well stealth if you've got such an issue with it send it back and don't get another. Infact why don't you just sell all your airsoft stuff. You'll be doing the community at large a favour, then we won't have to listen to your problems. It sounds to me like a 'watch as I throw my toys out the pram' line. Both G&G and AW told us that the blow back bolt could break and cause this. In the same way you can't hold a tyre manufacturer to blame if they're tyre results in a fatal motorway accident under nomral conditions. (Assuming there was nothing untowards wrong with the tyre). We knew about the blowback bolt and situation before we bought the gun. Therefore you havent a leg to stand on to say that its G&Gs 'Fault'. Equally G&G didn't decide to sell it at £300 so cut all this "If I pay £300 for something I expect it to be perfect blah blah" nonesense. Because it was AW who decided to slap that price on it. If you think they're overpricing it then please give them a call and let them know. Its not G&Gs fault or problem. Equally listing how many airsoft guns you own isn't adding any veracity to your cause. The 'I own more therefore know more' line is old and uneffective. You guys can get whiney about it and cras with the negative feedback but it doesn't bother me. Because the bottom line is airsoft guns break. Thats why the parts are modular and replaceable. Several of us have had 100% perfect G&G L85s, so when you make out that its an endemic problem with all of them thats not quite true. As I said in my review, treating this gun with respect, regular lubrications and such while disabling the blowback was very important. I stand by that as mine still works. Link to post Share on other sites
Prolific Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Can I also add that if this was a design flaw, would it not stand to reason, that logically all G&G L85s would be subject to it? yet many of us are very happy with them. To use your example, of a car whose tyre rubbed on the bodywork damaging it, would that not be the case on all cars of that model? So why isn't that the case of the G&G L85? Could it actually be that some are prone to a little wear as sometimes all cars, guns, computers, etc. have the tendency to be a so called 'lemon'. Others may have been subject to improper use, poor handling and poor care. While a few may simply have not been put together properly. Its hardly time to call out the witch hunt and burn G&G for their sins. Link to post Share on other sites
Chrissyg Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I was using a mate G&G L85 for the first time....aaaaaand it fired full auto when full auto was selected, oh and full auto when it was on semi auto. It then proceeded to break later on in the day despite the blowback being disabled. Typical G&G reputation it sounds to me. I wonder how long it will take me to get that last sentance thrown back at me.. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Both G&G and AW told us that the blow back bolt could break and cause this. Equally listing how many airsoft guns you own isn't adding any veracity to your cause. The 'I own more therefore know more' line is old and uneffective. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Iirc SB actually disabled the blowback on his L85, and i think his point was 'i've worked on/upgraded this many guns, non have failed so the G&G L85 failing probably isnt due to poor work done by me' Can I also add that if this was a design flaw, would it not stand to reason, that logically all G&G L85s would be subject to it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it isn't a design flaw why do G&G say the blowback mech can *fruitcage* the gun? I mean they've admitted its a bit on the *beep* side, so why bother putting it on? Also judging by this thread, a 'little wear' as you put it must have gone from the tens of thousands of rnds that most AEG's can cope with down to 500rnds before they die. TBH, from what i've seen posted around an appalling amount of G&G L85s have failed within a very short space of time. You may have a good one, but that doesnt mean that every single one thats broken has done so because of user error, infact it seems far from the case. If CYMA can make a AEG for a very small amount of money which works well and is reliable, why can't do G&G do the same? Link to post Share on other sites
Surreel Big Fish Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 And yes prolific, i disabled the blowback on both the guns before i even fired them, as i wasnt taking any chances... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you drive a car? Let me use my famous airsoft-car anaolgy. In driving a car you accept that at some point in your driving life you will probably have at least one flat tyre, most people have 5-10 or more. Its an inevitable consequence of driving that just happens due to a culmination of unfortunate but unavoidable events. Because of this tyres are a modular component of cars which can be quickly (and fairly cost effectively) replaced. In the same sense that say the roof of a car isn't a modular component. If you have that flat tyre at 75mph on the motorway the chance is that you will probably die. However in driving that car, on that road, you accepted that death was a potential and sometimes sadly unavoidable outcome. <snip> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Prolific, if you had actually bothered to read what sniper vinny had wrote you would know that he has disabled the blowback on his gun before he fired it. So to use your car/gun anaolgy it would be that the blowback is not breaking the gun it is the poor design. It is like buying a new car driving it off the showroom forecourt and 500 meters down the road having the piston blow through the head due to the fact it was poorly designed. These guns the OP has owned haven't had many rounds through them. They have not broke from wear, they have broke from being rubbish. Also, having a puncture at 75 mph doesn't mean you'll die. I've been in cars when they've had blowouts at very naughty speeds and not even crashed Link to post Share on other sites
sniper vinny Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have been through two L85's now, both of them had the blowback disabled before firing, and each seemed to have broken in a similar way, where bb's just fell out of the end of the barrel and a whining noise could be heard from the gearbox...i dont know what caused it, but my opinion is that it is simply the quality of G&G's parts, as the apparently similar problem occured in two seperate AEG's. Thats just my view. this seems to be backed up by some other people having internal and not external problems, although they may be around also, hence my reason for this thread in the first place.... I also phoned AW today regarding my refund, but the manager is on holiday and will be back tomorrow.....still friendly people though. Link to post Share on other sites
Prolific Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yeah thats one thing I think most people can agree on, that AW do offer top quality service. Good accents to! Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Can you honestly not see the difference? Tyres...blah...blah...blah...puncture...blah...blah...blame...blah...blah.blah.. . Hmmm, guess that's a "No" then? Answer me this: If a car was released which had bodywork which rubbed on the tyre and caused a puncture, would THAT be acceptable? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Allow me to give you a real-world example:- The 1991 MR2 had a suspension design that meant that, in conditions of extreme suspension loading, the suspension geometry would alter and the car would spin. Very easily. There's still plenty of 1991 MR2s on the roads. Most owners wouldn't deliberately push the car to the point where the suspension would compress to the point where the toe-in occured and the allowed the car to spin. However, in an emergency, it's not wise to have a car which contains components that might contribute to causing a crash. When the 1992 MR2 was released, Toyota acknowledged the problem and the suspension design was changed. Hopefully you can see how this relates to the situation with the G&G L85? Just because not everybody sees a problem with the gun (in the same way that not everybody found fault with the 1991 MR2) it doesn't make the complaints of those who DO see a fault any less credible. In fact, with hindsight, it's clear that those who did complain about the quality of the 1991 MR2 suspension were wiser and had greater insight than people who blindly denied there was a problem. The metaphor keeps coming. well stealth if you've got such an issue with it send it back and don't get another. Infact why don't you just sell all your airsoft stuff. You'll be doing the community at large a favour, then we won't have to listen to your problems. It sounds to me like a 'watch as I throw my toys out the pram' line. Sorry if you feel that way. You seem overly defensive about this gun. What the rest of us are doing is simply cataloguing the known faults with the gun so that it becomes easier for people to identify the same problems in their own guns. If 100 people have a stripped piston and 1 person has a broken foregrip then there's probably a weakness in the piston and also 1 guy who was unlucky enought to accidentally smash his foregrip. That's what threads "p!ssing and whining" about an item achieve. They allow people to compare notes about an item and understand fundamental weaknesses in that product. It's not about slagging an item off or dissing it. G&G and AW told us that the blow back bolt could break and cause this. In the same way you can't hold a tyre manufacturer to blame if they're tyre results in a fatal motorway accident under nomral conditions. (Assuming there was nothing untowards wrong with the tyre). Again, that's a flawed comparison. You show me a single, solitary occasion where a car or tyre manufacturer has said anything like "There's a weakness with this product so don't do X or Y with it". It doesn't happen. We knew about the blowback bolt and situation before we bought the gun. Therefore you havent a leg to stand on to say that its G&Gs 'Fault'. Equally G&G didn't decide to sell it at £300 so cut all this "If I pay £300 for something I expect it to be perfect blah blah" nonesense. Because it was AW who decided to slap that price on it. If you think they're overpricing it then please give them a call and let them know. Its not G&Gs fault or problem. You guys can get whiney about it and cras with the negative feedback but it doesn't bother me. Because the bottom line is airsoft guns break. Thats why the parts are modular and replaceable. Several of us have had 100% perfect G&G L85s, so when you make out that its an endemic problem with all of them thats not quite true. As I said in my review, treating this gun with respect, regular lubrications and such while disabling the blowback was very important. I stand by that as mine still works. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Erm, you do understand that NONE of the faults anybody is reporting are actually related to the blowback system, right? The most common fault appears to be that the pistons are easily damaged. I stand by my original point that there is NO EXCUSE for AW not to issue a full refund if there is a problem with the gun. If AW were concerned about the reliability of the blowback system then they should have disabled it and notified customers, in writing, that they might only enable it at their own risk. As I say, though, I think this is largely a moot point since the vast majority of faults with the gun are nothing to do with the blowback mechanism. I hope this helps clarify things for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Prolific Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Look stealth i'm not going to even bother to read that absolute essay. If you've got issues with AW you need to reslove it yourself. All your doing here is working yourself up about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Look stealth i'm not going to even bother to read that absolute essay. If you've got issues with AW you need to reslove it yourself. All your doing here is working yourself up about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> S'okay. I'm not writing it for your benefit. Link to post Share on other sites
ObsoleteAcey Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 ok well i have to agree with Stealth on this one (for what it's worth). If G&G know that the blowback could cause this kind of issue, they should perminantly remove such a stupid gimmick from their AEG. It is irresponsible to sell a product and say "oh by the way this pointless feature we added could break and destroy the internals of your gearbox". That said, thanks for the heads up on the problem with the blowback feature... if i get a G&G as opposed to the Star i'll disable this stupid feature right away thanks for the heads up on the suspension problem on older MR2s.. i have a 1990 and never knew about that.. though i did know about changes to the suspension in the 92 facelift model... luckily my next purchase will probably be a 98 Link to post Share on other sites
sadigh Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 All your doing here is working yourself up about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No he's not mate, he's just relaying USEFULL information on how his gun broke, so owners of the same gun that are experiencing probelms can "exchange notes" as he very well put it. If anyone is getting worked up here, with all respect its you by your use of harsh and innapropriate language - Go p!ss and whine eslewhere. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to post Share on other sites
sadigh Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 ok well i have to agree with Stealth on this one (for what it's worth). If G&G know that the blowback could cause this kind of issue, they should perminantly remove such a stupid gimmick from their AEG. It is irresponsible to sell a product and say "oh by the way this pointless feature we added could break and destroy the internals of your gearbox". That said, thanks for the heads up on the problem with the blowback feature... if i get a G&G as opposed to the Star i'll disable this stupid feature right away <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did you even read what you supposedly "agreed" too? Its NOT a problem with the blockback. Its a problem with the gears and piston destroying themselves after a couple of hundred rounds, do to poor materials being used, and due to the sector gears teeth not fully engaging with the piston teeth Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Equally listing how many airsoft guns you own isn't adding any veracity to your cause. The 'I own more therefore know more' line is old and uneffective. "I've taken taken apart and maintained all these guns" doesn't add veractiy to the fact he's pretty good at this maintenence lark? Instead you p!ss and whine when it breaks. Bypassing the word filter - Strike one. nfact why don't you just sell all your airsoft stuff. You'll be doing the community at large a favour, then we won't have to listen to your problems. It sounds to me like a 'watch as I throw my toys out the pram' line. Attacking another user - Strike Two Because the bottom line is airsoft guns break. Yes, but they SHOULDN'T break after a few hundred rounds. Regardless, you're of course entitled to your OPINION that G&G l85's are ace. It flys in the face of other peoples experience, but that's the whole point of threads like this - to compare experience. If you can't maintain a dispassionate position in a debate, don't get involved. Another personal attack like the one above will get you suspended, clear? Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 well, I have just received my replacement parts from G&G (they are good at customer service). The new piston they sent me has the second tooth on the piston removed. Just for info of anyone who is curious out there. And I noticed that the shimming on my sector gear was not all that great. There was lateral play in the gear (this is the original set) which needed to be taken out when putting it all back together. This may have been the cause of my gears stripping. If you are confident at taking the box apart (its a simple one) then I suggest checking. In fact, you should be able to check by just taking off the spring section and seeing if there is any play in the sector gear. It becomes accessible when the spring section is removed. Link to post Share on other sites
ObsoleteAcey Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 yeah i did a quick skim-read... couldn't read too deeply i was supposed to be working.. but i got the gist of it Link to post Share on other sites
1st Commando Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 i knackered my piston when a small spring got disslodged by me fitting the blowback protection plate (note- if you fit that plate ,it is best to remove the sping under the piston/blowback carrier).This caused the disslodged spring to fall into the path of the sector gear whilst firing and turn my gear box into a mini grenade ,therefore destroying the sector gear and piston beforethe remains of the spring lodged itself above the spring guide. AW fixed it under warranty and in the mean time G+G sent me 2x new pistons,1 bag of blowback hooks and a new blowback plate. I shall probably be removing the 2nd tooth on the piston to allow for higher ROF the same way i do with most high ROF/high power aegs customer service tested and very approved ! gun fubared for a week but Found out that i was to blame in a way by modding the gun before G+G had tested the viability of the plate themselves (they now have and they now make and distribute them) also icoated the plate in large amounts of silicone grease so as to catch any fragments of hook if i should break one Link to post Share on other sites
sniper vinny Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Just to say everyone, i phoned airsoft warehouse, and being the good folk that they are, they offered me a full refund due to my situation, so it has all been resolved. Its a shame that it didnt work, and i hope G&G learn from this. Again, thanks to airsoft warehouse for offering an excellent service. Link to post Share on other sites
The Chef Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hey.... Got my SA80 back together with the replacement parts from G&G.... guess what. Shattered the piston within about 50 rounds again. Completely ripped off the 1st tooth and chewed up a few of the others. Fortunately the gears are all still intact. Anyhows, back onto G&G. This thing will not beat me. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hey.... Got my SA80 back together with the replacement parts from G&G.... guess what. Shattered the piston within about 50 rounds again. Completely ripped off the 1st tooth and chewed up a few of the others. Fortunately the gears are all still intact. Anyhows, back onto G&G. This thing will not beat me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're lucky to be in contact with them. My only correspondence seems to consist of me writing to them and them sending me automated responses saying to contact them again in 3 days if I don't hear anything else. At the moment their famous customer service seems to be about as good as their products. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Within reason, does this look like the kind of thing that would get fixed in revisios of the rifle a la M14 style? Having seen stealths at MA it seemed like a nice build and a nice design, but having read the aftermath on the forums, i'm more than a little wary. Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 For me, they need to fix the problem with the piston and sector gear. They need pistons made of something more robust and, in my case, it LOOKS like the teeth of the sector gear could do with being slightly longer to engage the piston better. The semi-auto cutoff lever seems to have worn away too. That's made of pot metal and could probably do with being steel. The cocking handle snapped off. It's held on by a pin 2mm diameter. That'd be better being 5mm diameter and welded into place on the OUTSIDE of the fake bolt. Manufacturers should be paying me for this stuff. I can't help noticing that EVERY upgrade on the 2006 version ICS M4 is something that I've suggested at one time or another. Link to post Share on other sites
RSP1 Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 I'm a G&G RK-103 owner. And I hate that they brought out this L85A1 AEG. With their early GR16s, they were very.. ah.. bad. With the M14s, many had problems, but there was some light. With the UMGs, they were clearly improving. With the RK-104 and RK-103, they are actually very good and had *fixed* their internals. These are well respected guns on Red-Alliance. Then of course they had to rush out a new AEG with a strange gearbox and an iffy feature, and ruin it all. And now, what do you know, they're coming out with some great new models that would be much looked forward to by the community. But no, because with the L85A1 they went back to the start and stopped the cycle. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, that sort of thing. So, just when people were maybe starting to give them a change, they lose trust by making this garbled thing, which is sure to reduce their sales of the 2008 models. Nice work G&G. Maybe you can recover from the bad impressions by 2014 or so. Link to post Share on other sites
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