Ambushing & Counter-Sniper

[Rirekon]

Ok this is only half a sniper question, but this seemed the most relevant place to ask. In the games I've played so far (admittedly not many) I've found I do a lot better when ambushing/using guerilla tactics rather than in stand-up engagements (as far as they ever happen in Airsoft).

So I guess I'm looking for tips on concealment and particularly moving while staying "hidden". The site I play at has forest, overgrown field, shrub land, and urban environments, so anything related to those would be great. I think I'm pretty good and staying quite and still, it's the moving into position I have problems with.

I've had a read through about 50 pages or so of the uber-thread and found various things on Ghillie gear and mentions of ways of crawling but I was wondering if anyone can elaborate on this for me?

Also are there any tricks you guys use in a counter-sniper role? Specifically for spotting concealed opponents, I usually get caught out just be totally missing a hidden sniper (once crawled within about 3 feet of one and didn't event blink *sigh*).

[Samm]

I don't really have the effort to type out a full reply right now, especially when there is a lot of information around the net about this stuff.

 

I can copypasta from The Bushman's site though. I hope he doesn't mind, it's good stuff:

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/guru7mm/skills

 

 

 

Many would say that STALKING was a skill more in the realms of pointmen and snipers. However, all players would benefit from using such tactics, espescially when on patrol. Indeed, should a full team prove effective at STALKING and stealth, then they will be very effective on ENDURO style events.

 

STALKING is the art of moving undetected towards your intended target. Pretty much like a tiger or other predatory animal does, when hunting. Indeed, humans were once such hunters and some hunting instincts still remain.

The idea is to get within a successful striking range, just like a big cat does. Albeit further away if hoping to land a successful HIT, with an Airsoft gun.

 

When STALKING, it is best not to walk upright, but rather to crouch or walk with a stoop. (see picture right) This helps to keep you in cover (makes you a harder target) and reduces the chance of being spotted at long range.

 

The human eye, picks out upright shapes easily, so this helps to counter it. Yet the eye is quickly attracted to movement too. Even in peripheral vision, motion is instantly spotted. Espescially if contrasting colours are involved.

 

Hence, while stalking in a crouched stance, it is best to either remain completely still, or move only in a slow, fluid, manner. Imagine you are moving in slow motion, making no sudden movements. This means that a stalker, may only cover a small distance in an hour of stalkling, depending just how quiet, he wants to be. This will test your fitness and stamina.

 

Balance is important and can be helped by limiting the stalker's length of pace. Try not to over stretch and use your arm to brace against your knee to take the strain if stationary. If stooping gives you back ache, then try to keep you back straight. Take breaks and lay down if required to stretch out, before continuing.

 

Should you detect someone/thing, then the best thing to do is freeze instantly. Again this can require excellent muscle control and stamina, espescially if only balanced on 1 foot or testing a footing while crouched.

 

Moving silently is the key to a successful stalk. As sound often reveals an Airsofter, before they are seen. The best ways to limit noise include :

 

Spend time to pick good footings, avoiding dry leaves and twigs. Prefering to tread on soft ground or tufts of green grass, that produce little noise. Move slowly and smoothly. Practice moving silently at all times, eventually, this will become standard practice.

 

If you spot an opponent, then freeze and observe what they are doing. If they are looking away, then use the time to slowly drop into cover. As you try to get close enough for a shot, move when they are not looking in your direction and freeze if they are alert. Watch to see if they are unaware of you, if apparantly oblivious, press on.

 

Split your time observing your quarry, with watching your feet and planning your route forward. Indeed, when stalking, it is important to come up with a route to your intended firing position. You must choose to fire from a position with good cover. Aim to get 30m away with an AEG, while 40m is still an accurate range for an APS bolt action rifle.

[TheBauer]

Ok this is only half a sniper question, but this seemed the most relevant place to ask. In the games I've played so far (admittedly not many) I've found I do a lot better when ambushing/using guerilla tactics rather than in stand-up engagements (as far as they ever happen in Airsoft).

So I guess I'm looking for tips on concealment and particularly moving while staying "hidden". The site I play at has forest, overgrown field, shrub land, and urban environments, so anything related to those would be great. I think I'm pretty good and staying quite and still, it's the moving into position I have problems with.

I've had a read through about 50 pages or so of the uber-thread and found various things on Ghillie gear and mentions of ways of crawling but I was wondering if anyone can elaborate on this for me?

Also are there any tricks you guys use in a counter-sniper role? Specifically for spotting concealed opponents, I usually get caught out just be totally missing a hidden sniper (once crawled within about 3 feet of one and didn't event blink *sigh*).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

im still going to get you at the weekend dude

[The Bushman]

The game of hunting the hunter is all about spotting the opponent first. This is what I find is the most rewarding style of gameplay. It is a mental duel and involves many factors. You can do your best to increase your chances of success by using several tactics. This involves you moving silently as standard not just when stalking a spotted target. To move silently you must move far slower than normal and you must look at the floor half the time. Pause and freeze often while observing as much as possible with your eyes and only turn your head slowly to scan. Use this time to listen and work out what is going on in the area/game.

 

Now and then pick a spot to just get down and observe/ambush. Do not make this a location that watches large open areas, instead pick areas of deadground or denser locations that will be more frequented by the target. Set up your ambush around 30m from the location you imagine giving you an ideal shot. It often has to be further to be happy that you are concealed. Try to set up with dense cover to your rear or flanks otherwise you will not feel safe for long if alone. Try to stay in location for several minutes.

 

The times when you are moving is when you will probably be spotted. While if you are stationary a target is far less likely to see you. Hence you want the prey to be moving into your vision while you are stationary for the best odds of getting the drop on them. However if you don't stop much, the chances are you will end up being the prey yourself. Therefore slow yourself down and wait for several minutes every now and then when you are unsure of immediate threats.So learn to trust your cam/ghillie and actually use it by bothering to be stationary alot.

 

Which leads onto the tactic... if possible work in a pair. It will make you 4 times more effective against a lone target. you can cover to arcs and once the target is located a pair can create a crossfire. While one guy is moving the other can be stationary and therefore get the best of both worlds mentioned above. If you are ambushed by a lone player then you can both rush him dependant on range and cover. This is a gamble but often the target will be looking to withdraw if he misses on a 2 on 1 situation.

 

When observing, be sure to look at all areas carefully and look through the cover not just at it. Keep watching an area for extended periods as often unless the quarry moves, you will not spot a well hidden danger most of the time. Bother to use your scope to observe, look for longer "corridors" but don't get tunnel visioned as while looking through it you are not observing a larger area.

 

You need to just be watching out for that 1 bit of movement that draws your eye. Then you can smile and realise that you have now got the first of 3 difficult tasks ticked off. The second task is to stalk to a firing position unseen. The final factor is making the shot. Only if you can get all 3 of these ticked off in a row will you be successful. This is very rewarding.

 

All this disciplined play will test you, as you fight the urge to just speed up. It increases your chances of spotting the opponent first and therefore becoming the predator and not the prey. However despite this, it is important that you remember LUCK is still a major factor in who spots who...

 

Learn your opponent and his tactics/haunts and try to change your own so as not to fall into the same trap. Eventually you will both be playing a high level chess game of cat and mouse.

 

The 90 minute film I am editing is all about this single aspect of gaming.

 

Good Luck

[Rirekon]

TheBauer; Not once I've learnt you -powerz!

 

Samm & The Bushman; Cheers guys, that makes things a bit clearer!

[+gingernuts+]

After those long posts this will seem short, but this is what i do:

basic really i just crawl right around the game boundary as silent as possible, making sure theres not a sniper on me if not i RUN!

Crawl around the back of them and take them from behind it's always fun as they are very surpised that they were caught and didn't see you!

good luck with it.

[TDS]

Ok this is only half a sniper question, but this seemed the most relevant place to ask. In the games I've played so far (admittedly not many) I've found I do a lot better when ambushing/using guerilla tactics rather than in stand-up engagements (as far as they ever happen in Airsoft).

 

Thats about where I started, so your on your way

 

So I guess I'm looking for tips on concealment and particularly moving while staying "hidden". The site I play at has forest, overgrown field, shrub land, and urban environments, so anything related to those would be great. I think I'm pretty good and staying quite and still, it's the moving into position I have problems with.

Urban is a lost cause, expecially if its a very "clean" urban enviroment without lots of garbage and stuff laying around, try as you might, you cant look like a trash can or car tyre.

What you can do in urban, is stay away from doors, windows, corners, everything, if you can stay out of the "town" and fire into it, do so, when your firing out of a window, be on the opposite side of the room, ect. if someone finds out what building you are in, your probably dead.

 

moving into position, well you dont really do it while being observed, not that you cant see them, but they cant see you. Using tall grass, little depressions, ect. ect. to stay completely out of sight, if they cant see you, it doesnt matter what camo you are wearing and all of that. Stay as low as humanly possible at all times that you can help it.

If you CANT avoid being observed, you need to move excessivly slow, for example while crawling, use the tips of your toes to dig into the ground a little, lift your body off the ground with your fingertips, then push youreslf forward a few inches with the feet, thats IT, no arm movement, keep your face facing the ground unless you have a good hat, ect. The best way of doing it, is pick a spot you want to reach, keep your head down and crawl to it, then pick a new spot.

Its absolutly imperitive that you present the smallest siloette when crawling, no backpack, no buttpack, no pouches on your chest, if your playing a small game bring only what you absolutly need, wear no gear and just use pockets if you can.

 

 

Also are there any tricks you guys use in a counter-sniper role? Specifically for spotting concealed opponents, I usually get caught out just be totally missing a hidden sniper (once crawled within about 3 feet of one and didn't event blink *sigh*).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

bushman would be the guy for this, for me, if I think its a sniper, bring out the baby binoculars and check it out, if I'm still not sure, throw a grenade at it, as long as there isnt anyone nearby that will see me throw it.

[The Bushman]

If you CANT avoid being observed, you need to move excessivly slow, for example while crawling, use the tips of your toes to dig into the ground a little, lift your body off the ground with your fingertips, then push youreslf forward a few inches with the feet, thats IT, no arm movement, keep your face facing the ground unless you have a good hat, ect.  The best way of doing it, is pick a spot you want to reach, keep your head down and crawl to it, then pick a new spot.

Its absolutly imperitive that you present the smallest siloette when crawling, no backpack, no buttpack, no pouches on your chest, if your playing a small game bring only what you absolutly need, wear no gear and just use pockets if you can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

TDS : I liked the technique for moving very slowly into open positions by keeping your head down and therefore giving no brim to create a shadow. For anyone who has crawled for an hour or 2 will tell you, looking ahead rather than down can cause severe neck strain and this technique avoids that.

 

I must say having a light weight VSR that is half the weight of several designs really helps when crawling. Having a cheapo plastic stock means when it gets dinged you don't mind.

 

The lower you are the harder to spot you are but also the less you can see. It's a balancing act at times and hunting the hunter is a juggling act of risks, hunches and gambles. As well as being invisible, you also require information. You need to give yourself the chance to spot that fleeting glimpse of movement through the trees .

 

 

Sometimes I hide in dense thickets and relax with no LOS but just near a trail or contour. I know I cannot be seen but also I can see nothing. I lay with my pistol and just listen silently for movement ready to pop up and shoot if I hear sounds come my way. Using dead ground this way doesn't need a ghillie to be unseen and provides a fair chance of success if you are good at picking your spot.

 

You can also try a dummy on your opponent, if you have a hunch where he is and feel he has seen you... run one way into dead ground and then when out of sight, circle back the other way and hopefully catch a glimpse of him repositioning or just come in from his flank .

 

basic really i just crawl right around the game boundary as silent as possible, making sure theres not a sniper on me if not i RUN!

Crawl around the back of them and take them from behind it's always fun as they are very surpised that they were caught and didn't see you!

 

gingernuts: I suggest that effectiveness of this tactic depends on the scale of the arena you play in. Also I suggest that the boundary is an ideal place to set up ambush in a smaller arena, as you know one flank is safe and someone nearly always attempts this boundary tactic. That is my experiance anyway.

 

Last tip is shown in this picture : (regularly watch your back)

 

The depth of the duel and tactics you can use, depends on the scale of the game in both length and area used. You must adapt tactics to suit your gaming environment and opponents.

 

Hope you 2 hunters end up having a duel this weekend. I wonder who will end up being the prey and who rolls the double ones this time out?

[Rirekon]

That's great help guys, really appreciate it!

 

Will have to try out that crawling technique, prefer to have pouches on my sides as it is so shouldn't need to adapt my kit too much for it. I've actually used the "hide and listen, then pop-out and open-up" trick before (got 3 people last time!), good to hear some of you "pros" use that too

 

Oh and to be fair it's more likely that The Bauer will get me... repeatedly! If I can get him a couple of times then I'll have had a good day, hence the asking for tips

[djl]

Grasshopper - for man to walk the earth, man must become the earth. Only then will man avoid being hit by 6mm pellet.

[TheBauer]

That's great help guys, really appreciate it!

 

Will have to try out that crawling technique, prefer to have pouches on my sides as it is so shouldn't need to adapt my kit too much for it. I've actually used the "hide and listen, then pop-out and open-up" trick before (got 3 people last time!), good to hear some of you "pros" use that too

 

Oh and to be fair it's more likely that The Bauer will get me... repeatedly! If I can get him a couple of times then I'll have had a good day, hence the asking for tips

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I promise ill go easy on you,

 

what day will you be down? if your on the same team ( i hope not ) then maybe i can show you a thing or two, on how i use our site to my advantage, places i like to use and are the most effective.

[Rirekon]

I promise ill go easy on you,

 

what day will you be down? if your on the same team ( i hope not ) then maybe i can show you a thing or two, on how i use our site to my advantage, places i like to use and are the most effective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hell will you, how am I supposed to get better if you go easy

 

Down on the Saturday (can't make Sunday unfortunatly), any tips can show me would be great! If we're not on the same team then I'll just have to try some of Bushman and TDS' tips

[TheBauer]

Cool, im there all weekend,

 

Point your self out to me properly, i wont be in multicam on saturday but in British DPM, you know what i look like though, ill be ferrying in and out from the chrono getting my rifle within the limit as its going to be a bit hot . last time i couldnt rember whatyou looked like so shooting you was pure luck

[Rirekon]

Yay join the DPM brigade! Will do

[140thelvis]

Yay join the DPM brigade! Will do

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yays now if only my local army and navy had large size dpm trousers, I could be in the dpm crew as well

[The Bushman]

Some examples of what I was rambling on about (see above) are in this LINK.

 

see the lower 4 in particular....

 

PS: The latest film project is looking epic OMG!

[buzzsaw]

I love all of your videos man, they are awesome!

 

Can I make a quick suggestion though? Sometimes on the 'Airsoft Sniper School' there is just too much wandering around and whatnot. Also, maybe you could have someone or one of the snipers themeselves, telling what is going on, and as it is a 'sniper school' maybe actually give some advice/tips?

 

Otherwise, great videos!

[The Bushman]

Well the clips you have seen on U TUBE are just that.... clips. The full length films do have interviews mid game and keeps you in the picture.

 

The "wandering around and whatnot" is the main part of the game tbh m8. It's called stalking/ambushing. The shooting is only a small part of the game.

 

The latest film (soon to be released) has voice overs and interviews explaining many many indepth factors. The film is a fully rounded production giving you different opinions/tips from several time served players, utilising video diaries.

 

I just got back from a weekend where we filmed another skilled player (who got me into this sport btw) who is narrating/introducing the EPIC film. He doesn't play in the film btw.

 

Just editing it in as we speak.... I've been hammering this PROJECT since early september and all I have left to do are animated maps. I will say that ALL players would learn something from watching this film and that it certainly exceeds our older productions. So far we are chuffed to bits with it.

[USMC grunt]

close in the range between you and the sniper, a 100m isnt much because I doubt that you play on a 500x500 meter field.

 

if ur squad is engaging a sniper and is under fire, try not to look important to the sniper.

[buzzsaw]

Well the clips you have seen on U TUBE are just that.... clips. The full length films do have interviews mid game and keeps you in the picture.

 

The "wandering around and whatnot" is the main part of the game tbh m8. It's called stalking/ambushing. The shooting is only a small part of the game.

 

The latest film (soon to be released) has voice overs and interviews explaining many many indepth factors. The film is a fully rounded production giving you different opinions/tips from several time served players, utilising video diaries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cool, looking forward to this full length film then! As for the wandering around, I take that back, I guess i'm not used to the way the sniper works!

 

Good job.

[amsniper]

i read this and thought it would be - reasonably useful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-sniper_tactics

 

only read it because im going to enter into a squad marskman/ counter sniper role!

 

regards amsniper

[1chickenofdoom]

Ok this is only half a sniper question, but this seemed the most relevant place to ask. In the games I've played so far (admittedly not many) I've found I do a lot better when ambushing/using guerilla tactics rather than in stand-up engagements (as far as they ever happen in Airsoft).

So I guess I'm looking for tips on concealment and particularly moving while staying "hidden". The site I play at has forest, overgrown field, shrub land, and urban environments, so anything related to those would be great. I think I'm pretty good and staying quite and still, it's the moving into position I have problems with.

I've had a read through about 50 pages or so of the uber-thread and found various things on Ghillie gear and mentions of ways of crawling but I was wondering if anyone can elaborate on this for me?

Also are there any tricks you guys use in a counter-sniper role? Specifically for spotting concealed opponents, I usually get caught out just be totally missing a hidden sniper (once crawled within about 3 feet of one and didn't event blink *sigh*).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stay in the shadows of the foliage and keep low! if you need to move, then crawl on your elbows and knees! (stay LOW to the ground when your crawling!) when your crawling look at the ground and make sure there isn't any obstructions like branches, dead crunchy leaves, twigs, ect ect as they will make noise which can and will give away your position!

 

As far as Counter-snipers i've never encountered another counter-sniper before, so i can't really help you there! Except the only thing i could tell you is if your playing on teams then send your scout around in a certain range and have him tell you if there is one! (If he gets shot before he can spot one, then try to think what is the best place that you would hide in that area to snipe from! Not only that but also if you can see were the shot that hit the scout came from it will give away his position!)

[sniper_boi]

This is my prefferd method of stalking an watching:

 

When im stalking a target i tend to drop back abit and watch him/her through the scope of my rifle, this helps me to decide if i need to change my approach or get to cover an get ready for the kill...

 

I tend to use thick foliage to my advantage, if there's an open field with foliage around the edge of the field, i would jus sneak into the foliage and watch what the opposition is doing.

 

If there walking away then i'll follow, if there heading my way and cannot see me, i stay put, if there heading my way and see me but there out of range on there AEG's, i just pick off the bloke who poses the biggest threat.

 

Plus i pick off the bloke who makes himself a target when they move to get a better position on me.

 

Remember, its all about who poses the biggest threat to you, the bloke who is laying down firing at you or the bloke who is running round the side of you to get a better shot.

 

As for counter sniping:

 

Send a scout in, get him to wear a ghillie suit, it pays to keep him hidden, when he's seen a sniper or two he should radio you back.

 

If he doesnt, predetermine where the snipers are gonna be, i.e. places with thick vegitation is a most likely spot, if there's hills looking down, look up, most of all, keep moving, if you stop to look around, you could be the next target on there list.

 

If there's a whole squad of you (10 to 12 men) and there's 4 snipers, split yourselves up and go after the snipers.

 

Smoke grenade's are a very helpful tool to use, they can block the snipers view, thus giving you a chance to retreat or get a better position on them.

 

Weedkiller shouldnt be used.

[amsniper]

agree with sniper boi!

 

a sniper chooses his battles - the bigger the threat - the higher the priority! - support gunners other snipers ect!

 

- another good idea would be to spend a day or two with an airsoft sniper - find out where he'd be! - if he shows you a good postion the chances are that another sniper would pic a similar/the same place!

 

a few rounds in that direction wouldnt go amiss!

 

not entirely sure i explained that right but hey ho!

 

regards amsniper