The CA, Star, TOP, M249's new compitition!

[flint]

I munged my autowinder. During play this weekend something got in it and locked the gears. I took it apart with the mainspring wound tight. As sometimes happens it sprung at the worst time and I am missing a couple of parts. Anti-Reverse spring and a little wheel inside the bay the lkept the bb's out of the mech.

 

I will try to scrounge from another high cap so I can return it to service but in the meantime has anyone seen additional boxmags available for this gun?

 

I looked at the Mag brand boxmag and it looked VERY similar in design. Does anyone know if it will work on the G&P?

 

This gun is such an awesome shooter I don't mind buying more boxmag sets to make sure I can keep feeding the beast.

[Ironfather]

Hi, i´m planing to get an G&P m249 marine (to be true i just created an account to get some information about this beast So it would be very very great if someone could get some pictures uploaded (someone must have a digicam out there).

an @ stubbs what for a selectorpalte is in it because here in damed germany all guns are delivered( is that right) on semi auto only.

Thx for your answers: Ironfather

Edited April 27, 2007 by Ironfather

[PheonixZero]

Ironfather:

Its full auto only...I don't know if you'd be able to bring it into Germany under those circumstances.

[Ironfather]

In the usa it´s on full auto only but in germany some shops (german shops)

sell it too. And here in my fu... country its a law that all retailers have to modify it that it just can shoot on semi auto otherwise its not legal to own one. (this law is only for guns over 0,5 joule).

And usally you can remodify it with an uncut selectorplate or other things (version 2 mechbox) or just pulling an litte plastic stick out (version 3)....

[Ranger Stubbs]

Yes, the gun is full auto only. The gear/mech box does have cutouts and the mounting points for everything you need to make the gun select fire, but it'll be a fun project to modify the trigger switch assembly to do so.

 

Since you say it IS illegal to own a full auto AS gun in Germany, I'm sure there must be some techs that have decent experience with modifying a normal assualt rifle type, say an M4, MP5, G3 or AK series but this one will be a bit different for them. Even if you tried the modification with just wanting to do it instead of actually HAVING to do this project, I wouldn't advise it.

 

External cosmetic differences will be very visible too, the spot where a switch will be ends up right on the angled part of where the reciever necks down into the grip frame. Also remember that the upper reciever is MUCH wider than any other reciever currently out there. More than likely you couldnt use normal parts and would have to make your own custom/extended parts to be able to make it work.

 

Just my opinion, but not a project I would try to take on with a gun that's this expensive to begin with. If we had the same laws in the U.S. as you do in Germany, I'd still have gone with a different gun entirely. I'm not saying it's impossible, just a pain in the *albatross* to do.

[Ironfather]

Usually the guns are just a bit modified, like i said by an version 3 mechbox just a litte plasticstick in it and by an version 2 mechbox there is the selector plate cut out so that if you do select the switch on fullauto you just shoo semi auto too . This is an uncut selectorplate

 

http://www.airsofthardware.de/images/shop/....jpg?1166805225

 

you can easily swap them in a normal AS gun and know i want to know if there is athing like that in the M249 too ?

 

P.S. pictures?

[Ranger Stubbs]

I could see how and why a cut out semi auto only selector plate would work on any other gun, but the G+P M249 series doesn't even have a selector plate running along the outside of the mechbox at all. Nor does it have any type of semi-auto switch system to cut power to the circuit, instead, power is directly relayed by the trigger contacts and thats it.

 

While a great idea (and no sarcasm meant) to think about the cut out selector plate, G+P's system is a very direct, no extra part to worry about shorting or burning out kind of route to use and it is smarter and more reliable, (in my opinion at least) that they designed it that way. Unfortunately, it means more of that aforementioned pain in the *albatross* to change out if you do have to get the gun to go only semi-auto and that's all. Another more commonly used select fire relay might be able to be shoved into the mechbox and everything rewired using your idea of a cutout plate to get it to work.

 

I do have one question. Of course we all like certain looks of guns and have our own right to buy them without anyone telling us we can't have them for whatever reason, so don't get me wrong. "To each thier own" is my normal philosophy in cases like this one. But, I am curious.

 

My question is regarding the practicality in owning a semi-auto only gun that weighs a full 18 lbs/9kg and is still nearly twice as expensive to buy as a fully upgraded to field limit assault type rifle. Just for looks I can somewhat understand, but carrying a beast like a M249 around all day is a different story if you cannot equal or better someone else's firepower on a skirmish field. ie: I can blast you right into the ground with both high FPS and high ROF.

 

With a semi-auto only function only choice given to me, I can think of many, many better options I would choose to balance things out. Otherwise I'm just wasting energy instead of "simulating" killing my enemy. Not only have I owned this gun for six months, I've definitely carried my fair share of RS machine guns to include the M249, M60 and M240G. I always have said firing those weapons made up for having to carry them, but if they had been semi-auto only, someone else would have had the job as a machine gunner, not me. Same applies here, the purpose of the type of gun is pretty much defeated by a semi-auto conversion.

 

Another option you might want to think about based off of my above comments, that's changing the spring to a less powerful one that drops the velocity to within your country's or field limits. This would be not only much cheaper and easier to do, but it would balance out your firepower concerns as well. ROF would most certainly go up because of G+P's custom motor having to push a lesser powered spring and the real purpose of the 3000rd mag is then used to the utmost effect. Just a thought.

[Ironfather]

Firts thanks for your reply.......BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK I PLAY IN GERMANY WITH SUCH A BEAST?

I wouldn´t do that.

Usually I play in danmark or belgium.

But the problem is, that it has to be shipped to germany because I don´t know any airsoft retailers in these Countys (I don´t even know if there are such shops). According to this I would never buy an M249 without beeing able to shoot it on full auto.And I would never ever run arround with such a heavy mashine when there is no real reason why I carry 9 kilos.

So I want to buy this beast and I want to shoot it on full auto (not in germany) and now I have to know how to make this work. And I totally agree with your opinion that i should buy any other gun when I just intend to shot it on semi auto.(actually than I would be a sniper..... Tanaka M700 AICS=> 3,5joule I shot the real one in the german army its the G22 (yea anywhere else its called AWM or so))

Edited April 30, 2007 by Ironfather

[Ranger Stubbs]

Well, at this point I can honestly say I don't know enough of the AS gun laws (or playing area terrain types and how hard it would be to work in them) in other countries to comment further on this issue raised.

 

Best I can do is say change the higher or lower powered springs back and forth between the countries you play in and go from there.

[Hillslam]

Somebody post when you get to 200,000 rounds thru one and a couple years skirmishing. I'll be interested.

 

Approaching a half mil here on my CA, over 400fps for more than 3/4 of that. Wore out one motor and some hopups thru sheer volume. Other than that nothings failed yet.

 

Anyway, the G&P: Good gun, good price. But you shouldn't set expectations that you'll be replacing parts like that mechbox cheaper than a CA. CA 249 parts are cheap and readily available.

 

Not dogging your review - well written and a great gun. I'm just correcting your CA info from a user with ALOT of CA249 experience.

 

EDIT: I know of only one CA mechbox cracking.

 

EDIT #2: To run a CA at 400fps you need buy only an M120 spring, nothing else. I Ran that for over 100k rounds dead stock, zero problems. (I now run an M140) Spring Cost: $15. Spring Replacement Time: 30seconds. CAs, they will either break right out of the gate, break when you yourself overhop it and jam it, or it will run forever. Or at least to a half a million rounds...

Edited May 1, 2007 by Hillslam

[flint]

I agree with Hillslam. We won't know the full story for some time yet.

 

My G&P 249 is shooting like a champ but I only have about 12,000 rounds through it. I had to rebuild the box mag after my own mistake letting dirt drop in and locking the mechanism. Fortunately the parts from another hi cap were adequate since you can't currently get a replacement mag for these.

 

Hopefully these will catch on and we will see more accessories come available and more use in the field.

 

All things considered, I love this gun and it has made Airsoft more fun than ever. I have had a LOT of guns now and this is by far the most solid and best shooting AEG I have ever used. (To avoid argument, I have never used the CA model 249 though I have enjoyed the CA guns I have owned.)

 

I like to think there are two kings of the 249 mountain now. This is an accomplishment since CA had a pretty solid hold on it until recently.

 

Some of the new G&P MG's look very promising as well.

[Agent47]

For anyone else with the G&P M249, does your safety work at all or is the "no safety" issue present in all of the G&P M249s?

[Ranger Stubbs]

Just easier for me to requote myself concerning the safety issue.

 

I did forget to mention a possible con in my original post. THIS GUN HAS NO OPERATIONAL SAFETY! You pull the trigger at all, off it goes. That's not a problem for me, remember the scene in Black Hawk Down? The one where the Capt. Steele asks the Delta operator in the chow line why he doesn't have his safety on with a hot weapon? The shooter holds up his trigger finger with a annoyed look on his face and says, "THIS is my safety". That's fine by me, if your finger ain't on the trigger, it ain't gonna shoot. But it may not be fine with you when your friends go to pick up your gun and proceed to accidently blast the holy hell out of either your girlfriend's or cat's *albatross* with it on full auto, at close range. BB's may stay in the feed tubes after you think it's completely unloaded, so BE CAREFUL! Your girlfriend or cat won't sleep with you for a LONG time afterwards, so take that seriously.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Hillslam: I do respect your opinion as a long time poster and gun owner. I've seen ya around is what I'm saying. But, I do hate it when people edit my posts for me, as if I didn't look up some both obvious and numerous complaints in order to make a comparison with another companies gun. If a question concerning a difference on design merits between brands comes up, it comes up. Again, the review wasn't on CA's gun. I do appreciate the info, but as you had some problems with mine, I have some problems with yours.

 

You seem to have gotten an exceptionally good gun, by all good intents and purposes. You may have also been able to take better care of your gun than most as well, resulting in better overall performance over time. That being said, the comment about "Somebody post when you get to 200,000 thru one and a couple years skirmishing, I'll be interested." was a little different. While I would agree it would be nice to hear it from that perspective, most of us don't want to wait that long before purchasing a just out on the market product. Your expertise does show, but you're not nearly the only one I've went to for info. I not only look for an individual opinion, I also look for the big picture, and it’s why this site is great for learning about AS guns and gear. We get a good all-around view of a product.

 

I took the time to do the research on CA's M249 before knocking one in any way shape or form. What I found was a gun with inherent design/QC problems I wouldn't want to deal with myself after already spending nearly $1000 dollars for a gun that shoots little plastic balls. CA has had serious and well documented QC problems with literally half of the guns they marketed since they started. Remember the MP5 gear problem they had a few years ago, forcing a worldwide recall and a new version having to be marketed? As it stands, the CA M249 series has an over adjustment problem for the hop up unit forcing many people to have to replace it, the gearbox cracks occasionally when upgraded, pistons were stripping left and right even with the hop up not over adjusted, the stocks cracked, ammo box switch placement was on the bottom of the box, weak mounting connection for the autowinding ammo box, causing it to break and fall off in mid play, the carrying handles will break if you use them to carry the gun. There are a few other multiple complaint problems that I’m not going to reread 50+ pages of a review to refresh either my or your memory on. It was definitely enough to get some people to sell their gun or go crazy trying to get it back into action as soon as they could. My own small but relevant experience? I went to trade my Para stock for a CA MKII stock, which I found out from the owner that it had already cracked. Not a good selling point for CA products right there. Sold the stock and bought the G+P version instead.

 

My G+P M249 has a hell of a lot more rounds on it than most CA M249’s had on them before something on them failed for ANY reason. Has more rounds on it than ALL of my other “vaunted” TM guns before something had to be replaced. That’s a simple and well documented fact. The further we get into this review, the more I realize G+P kept this gun design both durable as hell and simple as possible to work on, eliminating any problems CA had so far. Since my gun has YET to fail with no noticeable wear after almost 100K, I’ll still be willing to bet it makes it to 200,000 before having to replace something. As I would always say, and also have already said before in the opening of the post, we’ll see. Updates on performance will follow as we go, as well as the mostly Q and A still being carried out. Once again, back on topic.

[Ranger Stubbs]

BTW, the saftey issue, (or lack thereof) I have a TM issue protective muzzle cap for use at skirmishes to prevent somone else from an accidental discharge from my 249 if they want to see it. It also reassures my field owner, who's also an ex shooter from the spec ops community, that I have a double safe attitude. What I am concerned about is that some other field owner that does not know me will complain about just having that cap on while not having a working saftey. Might get sticky for someone else as well. It's been the one detriment I can see to G+P's M249 series.

[Fizzy]

Well, RangerStubbs, you've either been lucky, or this guy has been unlucky (but due to the lack of feedback from other users, it's hard to say. Here's a review from "DuelWieldNate" on another forum:

Ok I am going to write a proper review but when this gun actually works properly.

 

This is just my personal experience with the gun and I may just be very unfortunate, I generally am

 

It arrived and was frankly breath taking, very, very well packaged, with its winding box mag and inert 5.56mm shells to cover the BB feed it was great. It even included the square battery for winding the mag already installed and a funnel for filling the it rapidly. No instructions, which worried me sightly but the gun is very simple to use and everything is self explanatory but also no warranty details or exploded diagrams as I'd received with previous TM and ICS rifles (My Star M14 had them available for download).

 

I test fired it at home very briefly (dry fire as I have no were to shoot anything with that kind of ROF) and it fired well except for one little thing; when I fired a long burst or pulled the trigger suddenly the gun would fire a sustained burst even when the trigger was released. I initially thought it might have been some kind of two stage trigger this proved to be a woeful diagnosis from myself as on Sunday while firing the gun performed brilliantly, ROF was fantastic and power was as good as 90% of AEGs present. The issue was that it would stick and just keep firing I'd have to push the trigger back to stop it, I initially thought this might have been just a burr in part of the mechanism and would sort itself. This just got worse until the only way I could stop firing was to pull the battery lead out.

 

The gun is so heavy I actually had a sore back from carrying it even for a short time, this is definitely a static position support weapon. You'll not be managing any sustained assaults with it unless you are built like the proverbial. It even began to bend the sling loop on my brand new Guarder M60 sling, so I had to stop using it!

 

The Mag, wound great and has a built in remote. It wasn't long, however, before I had issues with that too. It would be winding and I could hear it working then I'd make the sound as if it had wound on fully at which I'd stop winding. On firing it there'd be nothing at all and I could see the between the two metal O rings through which the BBs feed bouncing around loosely. The only way I could sort this was by opening the box mag and releasing a tiny brass clock work mechanism (resulting a a whirring release of the spring), and the gun would feed again. This happened more frequently the further through the two games I got. I can kind of understand this as box Mags generally have some feed issues inherent with all large feeding mags, but why don't hicaps jam 5-6 times a game? I could live with this and bodge it myself If it wasn't for the other problem.

 

The box mag is also very difficult to close with the Large battery that it states it can hold, the side of the mag popped off twice spilling BBs around and resulting with me almost losing the side plate.

 

Finally, there is no safety on this rifle, or rather there is but its just an aesthetic touch and serves no purpose. As a result in between games walking into and out of the safe zone I'd have to pull the battery lead out to prevent any ND incidents. This is less than ideal as the battery cable runs through the Stanag mag well which has its sprung cover on it, this cover pushes onto the cable and I'm sure over time will put excessive wear on its heat shrink.

 

So all in it got used for 2 short games before I begrudgingly put it back in the box. £700 for a lesson in "waiting for others to buy brand new guns before purchasing myself" is a lesson learned at a costly sum.

 

I'm going to contact the 6mil and see what can be done, wish I'd bought the Classic Army now.

 

Some more:

I spoke far too soon... Yesterday at Phoenix it was working ok but the hop seemed all over the place. I fired several hundred rounds and after some adjustment it seemed to bed in fine so I started the game with it.

After a sort but sustained burst it made a sightly strange noise which actually sounded like it was just misfeeding so I fired a little more until a small crunch was heard and then the motor just turned freely and no gears were engaged at all...

 

A little later in the safe zone one of the marshals (turned out to work for 6mil handily) asked what was wrong and I told him, he asked me to give it a fire very briefly so he could hear it. I pulled the trigger very quickly and some parts actually fell out from the trigger section! After removing the gearbox it would appear that this was actually the sector gear bearing, it had failed and fallen out of the actual gearbox casing! Needless to say the gun was left with Phoenix staff to be returned to the 6mil shop.

 

And what happened:

The gearbox has dropped some bearings (not sure how many yet) 2 gears, its piston and damaged some internal wiring.

[Ranger Stubbs]

This is the kind of post I was looking for, we want both the good AND the bad when it comes to reviews. However, in the spirit of fairness, both issues Nate had with his gun might have been handled differently by him for a better solution. The trigger switch is much simpler than pretty much any other AEG out there, no two stage or anything complicated in any way, just two simple connections and thats it. no relays, microswitches or nothing. Remember, this gun has TIGHT internal tolerances, so the trigger seemed to need some breaking in time. He didn't report any further problems with it running away after that, so we don't know. Same with the little brass flywheel in the ammo box issue.

 

The stripping of gears or piston along with bad bearings is no new problem with anyone who's owned AEG's. I don't think it should happen as much as it does, but we are talking about some more powerful motors and pushing higher powered springs with the newer guns out there and you run a risk with preupgraded guns because of it. It was one of two reasons why I mentioned having some extensive prior experience with AEG's before owning a very expensive airsoft gun in one of my first posts of the topic. Troubleshooting skills and a knowledge of how the particular gun system works go a loooong way into saving you money with problems you have of any type with any AEG.

 

The problem is, a lot of experience or not enough, Nate kept right on shooting the gun anyway, instead of stopping IMMEDIATELY after he heard a change in his gun's performance to troubleshoot the problem. The "shop tech"? who asked him to fire it again was also wrong and helped contribute to the further damage to the gun. While it sounds like it started off with a bad bearing, G+P's problem, it certainly grew into trashing most of the internals by owner/operator fault. If I hear something like Nate described, the gun gets immedately downlined, middle of a skirmish or not. It isn't a design problem, MIGHT have been a QC problem with the bearings or a bad shim job, but ended up to be most of the damage being caused by the owner.

 

So, what are we looking at for both good and bad so far? One gun that has worked perfectly for around 85,000 rds now. (mine) Flint's problem with a ammo box that was fixed with a hi-cap's parts instead of buying a whole new box, the cost of which would be about 100 bucks when one comes out on the market. Flint's gun has reportedly been working like a champ otherwise after 12,000 rds. We also have Nate, who's trigger and ammobox flywheel issues apparently worked themselves out with minimal hassle over a break in period. Nate also has internals that are pretty much completely destroyed by initially having a possible bad bearing/bearings, but mostly his own fault by not stopping firing to troubleshoot his gun when he heard something going wrong. I still have no clue why he said his battery didn't fit, mine had a full inch and a quarter clearance lengthwise for G+P's recommended 8.4V 3300mah battery. If he used a 9.6V or above battery it might have contributed to bearing failures due to excessive speeds on them, along with not fitting correctly in his ammobox. He never did clarify what battery voltage he used in his review. It could have COMPLETELY been his fault, we still won't know unless he pops up on here to clarify.

 

We do know now that the G+P M249 is not entirely perfect. Mine has been, and way past my own expectations. It may not be the same with other peoples experience, and I know that. The purpose of this review was and is still always to provide accurate information to the people who might be interested in buying this gun, and also for people that own it to be able to have general maintence/repair/upgrade information to use. Please keep submitting any info or experiences that you have as things go on, it's appreciated.

[airsoftpacific]

I've had my G&P M249 ranger for long enough to use it in one skirmish. I'll be writing up a full review of it in the future, but I've been following this thread and thought I might throw in my 2 cents.

 

The gun has operated flawlessly thus far, after firing about 4,000 rounds through it. No issues with feeding, the gearbox cycles healthy and the chrono clocked it at 401fps with .20g BBs just as advertised. I'm using an 8.4v 3000 mah nihm battery, it provides a decent ROF without completely overworking the box.

 

The only problem I have to report is that I have snapped my bi-pod off near the base of the mount. It happened halfway through the first game I brought it to. The pacific northwest is often pretty hard on AEG externals, but it's not like I was banging it against trees. I believe I fell on the gun as I was scaling a steep hill and slipped in some mud, that's probably what did it. Still, even the bipod on my old TOP M60 DX would not have broken that easily. Unfortunately I'm not having much luck finding a replacement, both real steel and/or another G&P one. Any ideas?

[Ranger Stubbs]

Your gun performance aside, which has worked well so far, falling hard on ANY bipod would more than likely snap something, even with RS guns built for actual combat. I sheared the single mounting bolt on a actual M60 bipod leg, causing it to fall right off by catching it against a tree while running at night. Also had a Ranger buddy bend a barrel and crack both handguards on an M4 carbine in a jumpcase when he fell the wrong way on it during a jump. He was also injured from what the gun did back to him. Anything that can bend or break, will bend or break if you subject the right force to the right spot.

 

I do worry about my AS guns, while my G+P is almost made as well as the real one, I know I have to be careful with all of them. And accidents do happen, especially in the hard terrain that you play in. (I lived in Washington State when paintball first started getting popular, so I know what you mean, PLENTY of places to hurt yourself or your gun while playing.)

 

A solution to get a replacement part since I don't think they sell individual bipods or parts, even RS ones? Contact G+P at this email address, autumnstar@gpweb.com, see if they will sell/give you a new bipod mount.

[airsoftpacific]

Stubbs, thanks much. That's what I needed to know. Unfortunately, my outer barrel is also broken. It actually snapped off at the base of the threads, so it cannot be attached again. The quality of the metal I can see from where it broke is pretty terrible, as was the bi-pod mount piece. 2 skirms, 2 broken parts.

 

They do sell replacement bi-pod parts, but as part of a "hard steel" kit of M249 parts that cost $220. I only need 1 of the 5 parts in the kit. As far as I can tell for the barrels, they don't sell any aftermarket or replacement outer barrels, so I'm pretty much SOL in that department. Do you know if any real steel parts are compatible? I can find RS bipods for about $150 but I'm not 100% positive they'll work.

 

I've fielded a number of Airsoft squad guns, from CA to TOP and now to G&P. I've never managed to break a bipod on any other model. This thing has range, shoots all day long, and feeds great... But it's just literally falling apart externally.

[flint]

Has anyone seen a take down guide for these guns?

 

Mine has stopped firing and while probably not a big I don't want ot tear it down without some ideas on complexity.

 

Note: It sounds like everything is fine, the mag is working but it won't chamber any rounds.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Sorry to hear about the problems, gentlemen. I was hoping this gun series would kick the *albatross* out of anything out there competitionwise. Guess not. As for a solution to both issues with both owners involved since my last post, I'd still recommend talking to G+P about getting replacement parts.

 

So far they do not sell any external M249 replacement parts in any retail store. (except for the hugely expensive hard steel part kit for TOP's M249, railed feed tray cover and also a MKII stock) They're compatible, but as stated, who needs ALL those parts when you need just one. An outer barrel with the threads broken off is definitely something that isn't to be solved anywhere other than G+P's customer service area, along with Flint's mag feeding problem. There was no manual provided with my gun either, so I'm guessing that's the case with all of them being sold. I honestly have no clue if RS parts will fit this gun, I'm no longer around the RS weapons anymore like I used to be. I do know a RS 100rd cloth pouch fits perfectly on my gun, so that might be an indicator that the scale is close enough to work. Just can't say for sure.

 

I'd try G+P's customer service as a first resort rather than a last one if it were my gun. Costs will add up fast with buying anything else at the moment, most of the original G+P individual parts aren't available in a retail store, so hit them up and see what they say first. They may either just send you the parts or you'll at least pay a little less for specific ones.

[Boba_Fett]

Mine also had no manual with it. So I sent a mail to gunsnguys. They told me G&P will probably post the manual on their homepage...let´s wait and see

[airsoftpacific]

Hey, just wanted to come back and post an update. G&P have offered to replace the broken parts free of charge. They're waiting at Redwolf to be sent with my team's next order. They're sending me a new bipod mount piece and a new outter barrel. So, +1 for G&P's customer service!

[Ranger Stubbs]

Excellent news, any of my customer service experiences have been good with G+P. Hopefully it will be a painless continuing trend with other customers.