The CA, Star, TOP, M249's new compitition!

[ardrummer292]

Hey Stubbs, is she still up and running? An update would be beneficial for those among us interested in this belt-fed beastie.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Actually, I sat down last night thinking, the gun has come a long way, time to update, but I didnt get around to it. I was also thinking of revising the whole shebang and trying pictures again. I'll be getting to it shortly.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Actually, I sat down last night thinking, the gun has come a long way, time to update, but I didnt get around to it. I was also thinking of revising the whole shebang and trying pictures again. I'll be getting to it shortly.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Sorry about the DP there, gentlemen. A long awaited update! I've done a few things to the gun, then I haven't had to do things to the gun. I've shot 20,000 more rounds through it, took it to another skirmish in the snow this time and then modified a RS M249 100rd belt pouch to replace the 200rd plastic box that the gun came with. It's been fun so far.

 

But I'll start with the gun's continuing performance, which has still been flawless after I fired around 75,000 BB's through it. I've opened the gearbox again, only to put it right back together, just checking to see if anything was starting to wear out. After I had adjusted the motor pinion gear to stop wearing after the last update, nothing has changed on the internals of the gun, no wear almost at all. I really don't have anything else to say about it's extended performance except for "Damn, I really like not having to mess with my gun!" It's been absofreakinlutely beautiful. At least repairwise anyways.

 

Since this 249 IS my ultimate weapon in performance and very close to it lookswise except for one thing, I decided to do the one project it needed. That was to get rid of the big ol' 200rd plastic ammo box and replace it with what U.S. troops are using more of nowadays, a 100rd soft pouch. It's much more attractive and it's also much smaller, it doesn't get in the way of reaching up to the front railcovers or the R.I.S grip I have on my gun like the other box does.

 

This turned out to be pretty interesting and scary at the same time. Since nobody else makes a 100rd pouch that'll fit the G+P Series of M249, my next question was is this even doable? G+P offers a DISPLAY only pouch on their website, Guns and Guys has it for sale. $45.00 bucks plus S+H = too expensive for me. Not to mention the $110 bucks I'd have to spend if I messed the project up by murding the autowinding mechanism from the old box. So I waited, bought a RS pouch on Ebay for $35.00 shipped, then waited some more for it to get here.

 

The day it got here I was home from work, opened the box and said "Damn, I just wasted $35.00." This thing is too SMALL! I took some measurements, wow, it'll work, and I mean barely work. Cut all the extra plastic down, drilled a hole, got it on the gun, and realized that it had no room for a battery.

It now holds 1400 BB's, no problem for my style of play, which is suppress but still hit targets and the box can now be removed for easy reloading because the winding switch doesn't run into the gun anymore. Nor does the battery connection. Pull out the belt and dump BB's in. Belt back in and shoot.

 

Battery options. I rerouted the T-connector through the 3/4 inch hole in the breechblock underneath the barrel assembly, (barrel was taken out first) Mini battery wont fit, too wide. I then stuck a 8.4V 1100mah stick battery in the gun's reciever. Perfect fit. Pulled the trigger. Motor went clunk, enough to know I had power to the gun, but not enough to turn the gears. OK, wtf? G+P recommends a higher mah/higher output battery. It's actually the higher output part that does the trick.

 

The gun doesn't have a fuse relay in it. The custom motor doesnt need it, and wouldn't run with one to begin with, since it's turning a high ROF and pushing a heavy spring at the same time. Went to the airsoft shop. Asked for the most powerful stick they have. Got a 9.6V 1500mah stick with a 30amp output. $30 bucks, for a grand total of $65.00 spent when I would have waited for six months to a year for some company to offer a 100rd soft pouch, and then spent $110.00 plus shipping to get one. Took the battery home, charged it and the gun's ROF just went up about 200RPM. Very close to my KSC M11A1's ROF. It also lightened up the gun by a pound, less battery and ammo weight to haul around. Not much, but I'll take it where I can get it.

 

Now all I have to do is see if the gun can still withstand the 9.6V battery and not strip out the gears and piston. I don't think it will. The parts were all preupgraded for it anyways.

 

If anyone does happen to own this gun, or if you actually purchase it and want to know how to do the ammo box mod, email me personally. I don't charge for these things, it's just easier than filling up a thread with a million questions that I could better answer personally.

 

Remember, it's YOUR thread. Ask away with questions you have. Don't hold off buying this series of guns, they're well worth it. Just don't ask for mine, lol, not gonna give this one up.

[Ranger Stubbs]

P.S. Some things I forgot to mention.

 

Remember, a normal large 9.6V 3300mah battery will fit in the issued 3000rd box. No need to put a stick battery in unless you switch the box for a soft pouch. Bear in mind as well, I forgot to mention the pouch project took six hours to complete, and was not as simple as just slapping the internals in and cutting a hole in the top for the BB's to feed through. I just don't want anybody sending me flamage for saying I steered them wrong and messing something up on their own gun. Don't hesitate to ask first please, or do it at your own risk, well, on your own. Another 1500 BB's were eaten to test the box a week ago in one continuous burst, the motor got a little hot though. 1500 more were shot to test the battery yesterday. 78,000 counted now. No problems again, the gun functions the same as the day I got it.

[flint]

Okay, you got me. I ordered one from Red Wolf and am looking forward to trying it out.

 

I also ordered a decent 249 sling. If there anything I else I should get ordered while I wait?

 

What type of case do you haul yours around in?

 

I am intending to lighten up some of my other gear in anticipation of carrying this monster. At least I won't need a dozen magazines. I might even drop the vest.

 

Thanks for all of the details.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Cool, glad to hear you're investing. It's worth every penny. All you'll need is a good battery, An 8.4v 3300mah is recommended by G+P. I ran that battery in mine for almost three months, with plenty of juice for a skirmish+ and it ran the gun just fine. On the other hand, my 9.6v 1500mah runs out fairly quickly. As long as you've got that sling you're good too. In theory, I could dump my vest, all I would need is a place to put extra BB's if I needed them, and a place to put my backup if I chose my M9 instead of my MP5K w/magazines that I carry now. A drop leg panel is all I'd need. Not that I even have been using my back up much, unless its to go into a building on the field. Close quarters, navigating ladders and stairs are simply NOT easy to clear with the 249, even with the stock collapsed and practice at it. Bang rule applies too, at distances under ten feet for obvious reasons. You should be set, please update the rest of us on here or post your own review on your impressions of your gun, as there is almost nothing else out there for this particular gun or series yet. Good luck and happy hunting!

[Ranger Stubbs]

AH! You asked about a case. I currently don't have one right now that fits my gun. I have a Star M249, the hard case from that is too short, even after taking off the outer barrel or removing the stock. would have to do both, buy a hugely expensive Pelican case or try to find something at Walmart or sporting goods store for cheaper.

 

I'll most likely be building one of pine boards to replicate a RS weapons crate, just for a project. You know, rope handles, hinged lid, stenciling that says Property of U.S. Government, Machine Gun 5.56mm, M249 and the gun's individual NSN on it.

 

Kinda tired of taking a quick peek around my apartment complex and running what would look to be nothing else but a belt fed machine gun out to the trunk of the car to go shoot up some bank or my workplace. The local SWAT team and ATF agents wont like it either when they find out they wasted their time on a airsoft gun. Nor do I want to spend any more time than I already have in the back of police cars.

 

Not exactly safe, but gotta be done at the moment. Thank God more people don't pay freakin attention to what's going on around them. They're remakably oblivious to their own surroundings. Might build, then sell the boxes when/if I get around to it. An update on how to get them will follow if I have enough interest expressed to make more.

[flint]

Sounds great. Thanks.

 

I was thinking a simple belt/holster/mag pouch would cover that backup. Just need to figure out my radio headset and I should be good.

 

I am looking forward to it. I will be sure to update with my experiences.

[TenKen714]

What's G&P's website url?

 

Just for clarification, replacing the stock hopup with a AUG hopup isn't necessary right?

 

Where did you buy your boxmags?

Edited March 11, 2007 by TenKen714

[rolling-thunder]

What's G&P's website url? 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.gp-web.com/en/index.php

[TenKen714]

Thanks rolling-thunder

 

Also, does anyone know what airnozzle it takes? Just incase that needs to be replaced down the like also...

[Ranger Stubbs]

The stock hop up IS a metal AUG hop up unit. So, no upgrading or replacing to be done, unless you actually wanted to downgrade the quality of the hop up unit? (see below)

 

The nozzle type is an unknown at the moment, I don't have another nozzle to compare it to for length. If it's marketed as of now it'll be labeled as a G+P aluminum M249 airseal nozzle. Compatiablity with other gun types is also unknown at this point.

 

Spare magazine boxes are NOT inexpensive items as stated before in the post. Go ahead and buy a spare if you want to, (and can find one) but I don't buy parts til things catastropically break or more likely, I see something is starting to wear out.

 

That's entirely up to you what you spend your money on, but I gotta say this. There are really no cheaper alternatives unless you can be somewhat inventive to solve a problem on your issued box by yourself. I'd rather try that first anyway than waste my money on a completely new part/accessory if I don't have to, then have it laying around later if I end up getting rid of the gun and then no one wants the spare part cause the original still works perfectly. There's a sucker born in airsoft every minute, but I've still saved myself a TON of money that way and spent it on other things that I've wanted or needed later on. I can also wait a week for the part to be shipped without using the broken gun. Just how I roll. I don't like screwing people over either. Airsoft companies do that to us enough to begin with as far as the high prices and quality go. G+P didn't go cheap here with this particular gun's parts and didn't charge us anything extra for it or leave anything out to make us buy it from them later. I kinda like that aspect.

 

Bear in mind, G+P only recently started making complete guns, but mostly made upgrade parts/conversion kits for other companies' guns for some years before that. Gives them a decent backround for determining what will work and what won't. For their own M249, they took ALL of their own upgrade parts and put them in the gearbox or on the externals already. Someone can go and claim that Hurricane makes a better cylinder head, Systema has better gears or a better spring, or the thousands of ways we could all argue one part's quality/performance over the others. But it may not pay to get the aftermarket/replacement parts ahead of time for an already VERY upgraded gun.

 

G+P's M249 isn't exactly like the half assed "Comes preupgraded for high performance" guns companies now market when only HALF of the parts are marginally better than standard, leaving 90% of it's owners to say, "The hop up bucking needs replacing immediately, as do the bushings, spring guide and piston." Then they follow up with, "My gun really pwns now!" after they dumped more money, sometimes a hundred+ more, into their gun to get it to the average dedicated player's standards. Not to mention some other not so rare geardo's VERY high standards. Off topic, but what the hell does "PWNS" mean anyway?

 

Since the G+P is all one company's already COMPLETELY upgraded parts in one gun and designed that way with very close tolerances all over, using another aftermarket company's part may very well be a step backwards instead of a step forwards in performance, due to part compatibility issues. But nobody knows until they try it. My gun is already at my field limits for FPS out of the box, so I cant go up any higher without having to switch to "sniper" rules of engagement. Not meaning to brag, but it also outranges 8 out of 10 guys other guns that I play against, even the more than basically upgraded ones.

 

Until a few other people purchase any of the series of G+P M249's and start writing on them, we won't know the complete level of QC and reliability for them. Mine has been a wet dream to own, with absolutely no hassles whatsoever to report after over 75,000 rounds fired. Maybe it's because I havent really felt the need to try messing with anything serious yet, maybe it's because G+P did a good job on designing it the first time around, who knows?

 

Someone else theoretically could have a G+P M249 series gun that strips the piston in 200 rounds, cracks the hop up or gearbox shell or the million other things that can happen to cause multiple purchasers problems, whether user self inflicted causes or by QC problems and design flaws right from the factory. Mine doesn't reflect any of this yet on the internal parts, and that's at the very least twice as many+ BB's fired before I've been forced to replace even the larger and more expensive parts on even the many vaunted TM guns that I've owned. Certainly more BB's fired than other companies guns that I can and do read about on various reviews and posts in this forum alone, not to mention the 100 or so other forums out there that I can get information from.

 

Gotta wait and see. I'm not sponsored by G+P at all to write these things, I don't get sample guns from them to test out. But I will be buying more of their products in the future and go from there on with whether I like the performance or not. Until then, I'm 100% impressed with the gun and that's incredibly hard to get me to say.

 

One last thing. I'm asking as politely as you can take it. Please read the post carefully, (again if you have to, even though it's long) before asking a question that's already been asked. Reason being is that it makes the post longer to begin with and plus I'm a horribly slow typer. I don't mind giving out information/answers at all, but just don't like giving it out twice on the same subject unless I have to. That being said, Thanks again for all the readers interest and hope this was fun to read.

[flint]

I got the G&P 249. The thing is a brute. It is extremely solid.

 

Is there anything I need to do after shooting it? Does the main spring remaing compressed if I don't do anything to release it after a shooting?

 

I have to commend you on your previous post. I typically find the gun type I want and then buy all of the enhancements that I feel I need, metal body kits etc. I like having very solid guns to enjoy on the field. This is counter to how you do it but I can appreciate the logic in your method. I mention this because this is the first airsoft weapon I have pulled new out of the box and found to be so substantial.

 

I can't compare it to any other 249's as I have only seen those in passing and have never seriously handled one. I am amazed after handling this one. Very nice.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Flint, glad you got one of these, you're the first person I actually know who has one in their hands to comment on. A few other readers have expressed interest, but I don't know if any of them followed through on actually buying one. Everyone else they talk to recommends a CA M249 and of course they buy that instead because no one has actually SEEN a G+P, how it's built, or how it fires yet. They also get the perverse pleasure of dealing with some of the well documented CA's problems after they buy it.

 

I do understand why people prepurchase certain parts or accessories or are forced to buy them afterwards when it comes to almost ANY gun out on the market. I've done it too, I've just tried to slow my own process down a bit. It just takes a lot of research and time to find the gun I know will be more reliable than the rest. It may mean NOT getting a certain gun right away no matter how cool it looks, at least until I know the bugs have been ironed out. That's sometimes never, and it results in a loss of business from me. It's a damn shame that more and more companies are kicking out guns a lot faster with less QC and lower quality parts.

 

It's even more of a shame that we buy them that way and then have no qualms about getting them up to speed. I'm guilty of that too at times. My opinion is, the gun companies should be doing the R+D, not the consumers. We can't expect them to stop producing crappy parts unless we stop buying them so quickly, even though we might know they have an issue with something or the other. I actually expect that from the lower cost Chinese guns, but even they have gotten much better. I do expect a higher end gun to work better and without half as many problems as we actually have, but it seems to only be getting worse from their end. After all, we paid for a better gun, not just externals but internals too. That's really the only reason why I either read or write reviews in the first place, to pass on tips, tricks or info.

 

Back to the G+P, cause I think I rambled on a little too much for the topic title. Right now the only thing I do after shooting is remove the box mag to unwind the magazine's flatspring. It's essentially a regular hi cap magazine set up with a motor that winds it up instead of doing it with your thumb. Takes the tension off and will give you longer spring life. It also clears the gun so you know it's unloaded. Flipping the gun upside down and looking into the feed tube will show you it's cleared and safe for the next step.

 

I then decompress the mainspring of the gun by opening the feed tray cover and looking through the little window in the upper rear of the gearbox. Carefully squeeze the trigger to let the piston move all the way forward until you can't see any bright blue of the piston any more and you're fully decompressed. Is it nice to have a spring tension release on your guns? Yes. Is it nessasary on this particular gun? No. Pretty easy to see and do. Reattach the box mag and that's about it for what I do after I'm done. My gun never gets quite fully put away, always shooting it, or my friends are always asking to see it, but that's the basics.

[TenKen714]

Well, I'm sold on the G&P. $143 shipping from WGC!

 

The reason why I asked about spare boxmags/airnozzles and such is because I plan to use this for the 3-Day LionClawsVI event. I already have a decent sized stockpile of the normal V2 parts. It'd be nice to use this gun throughout the event without having to resort to a backup.

Edited March 12, 2007 by TenKen714

[Sysoosi]

Leaving the spring to a compressed state isn't that bad (unless it's low quality). Compressing it many times (and by that I mean shooting) is what kills springs. So I wouldn't worry if you accidentally left it compressed under your bed .

 

It is though one of those things you might want to do just to be sure, but it doesn't have to be 100% tension-free (most springs never are like this anyway). A quick look at the "window" will do, as long as you don't see the piston.

 

Having read this review, I really want one! I'm afraid I can't afford it even after my summer job... well I would have enough monies, but don't want to spend half of it on some toy gun .

 

EDIT:

 

BTW. how is the motor attached to the gearbox? I was just wondering, because the somewhat loose attachment is the main cause of wear in version two gearboxes. But your 70,000 shots without wear would suggest that that's not the case here. The main worry I have is the gearbox and its flaws. I don't mind the lack of a QC spring etc. (although that is a nice feature)

Edited March 13, 2007 by Sysoosi

[flint]

I did some shooting with my G&P M249 and it was awesome!!!

 

I haven't shot any 249's before so I can't compare but I can say this one exceeded my expectations. The power was very impressive. I will try to chrono it soon.

 

The included box mag fed very well. I put 1500 rounds out in no time. This is odd for me since that many would usually last me all day with my G3's.

 

The gun is very solid and feels like it can take a beating. It was really exciting walking rounds in and feeling how smooth it fires.

 

When I got it I had no intention of putting any optics on it but now I am thinking about adding aimpoint or similar.

 

I didn't like the bare metal showing on the Ranger-mod forward pistol grip so I took that down and painted it matte black. It may have been intended to match the mod's done in Somalia but I didn't like the idea of going in the brush with bare aluminum showing. If we made mod's like that in Panama we would either paint them or camo-tape them. (Seems odd now but it worked)

 

I will try to report back on how it skirmishes for me and reliability over time.

 

Thanks for your original post. I am really glad I bought it.

[Ranger Stubbs]

Sysoosi, the gearbox is holding up great, although I did experience a bump from a small amount of wear on the motor's pinion gear teeth. The wear was mostly from not being adjusted to match up with the bevel gear all that well, and it was the only thing that was just a little off in the whole gun. A twist on the little hex head screw fixed that right up. As far as the motor mounts go, it fits very tightly in the grip, along with having four screws (instead of the common two) that attach the grip to the the frame assembly. The grip also fits into a channel in the frame to reinforce the whole thing. So nothing shifts, flexes or tourques in the motor to gearbox area to mess things up over time.

 

One of the many complaints I've heard have been, why a V2 gearbox? They crack all the time, especaily with upgraded parts installed. The problem is well known and V2's have a bad rep because of it. G+P's V2 gearbox shell is rivaling some of the top of the line V2 FTK replacement shells for upgraded parts. The machining is better, there's more metal in crucial areas, and it's steel, not just aluminum. I've read about the same problems with CA M249's gearbox shells cracking in the same areas as the V2 anyways, and they're polycarbonate. Tolerances of parts makes a difference too, if they're nice and tight, there is less wiggle room for vibration to kick the hell out of stress points that would cause them to crack.

 

Flint: Fun gun to shoot, ain't it? I definitely go through more BB's than I ever shot too, my average 1500 per skirmish did go up considerably because I can take longer range shots through thicker brush and still connect with my targets. The gun definitely shoots nice and smooth too, no hiccups from either the gun or ammo box. Not even little ones.

 

The painting of the bare aluminum of the grip was something done to our weapons too, I can only guess that someone may have gotten a picture when the guns were first modified that way and that's what they used for the model. The weapons that I saw or carried during my active duty days were all painted to eliminate that glint of metal while on ops. That particular part got taken off my gun immediately and replaced by a RS Knight's Armament grip and RS R.I.S rail covers to keep up to date with the weapon type we currently use. The old grip is still very comfortable to use, as I remember.

 

Have fun, good luck and keep us updated with progress as you use your gun.

[Foukus]

G&P mechabox is not steel, CA249 mechabox is not polycarbonate.

[Ranger Stubbs]

I'll retract BOTH statements, I did go down with a magnet to check the G+P's gearbox, it's aluminum but machined to higher tolerances and built much better than your average V2 shell, as stated before in the post.

 

Upon more research and even more careful reading, the CA does have a metal but PCG "style" gearbox. That's where I read wrong, but the original point was the CA's shells are cracking in the same places as other unreinforced V2 gearboxes were breaking. Leaving us with, well, broken guns. Since it's much easier to find a decent V2 replacement gearbox shell than try to find a specialized (not to mention more expensive) replacement CA shell, the CA is at a distinct disadvantage for this particular point. That's even if the G+P breaks in the first place on top of that.

 

Sorry for the mix up.

[flint]

First day skirmishing was outstanding. I burned about 6,000 rounds and really enjoyed it.

 

It shot like a champion. The thing that really stood out was the distinct fwump-fwump-fwump it made. I received a lot of comments on it and everyone knew when it was engaged.

 

I did have trouble with the auto-winder on the magazine. As the battery was wearing thin it started spinning out and dropping the loaded rounds. I am hoping it was just related to the battery life.

 

Fortunately it was the last game of the day and I was completely worn out from carrying the thing all day.

[ARadam6696]

Alright thats it Im getting one. Damn why did I have to get that inokatsu kit!

[MunkyMo]

Great information Stubbs. I do have to say that you are one long winded mofo.

 

I have been looking into Saws for the past year and I am pretty sure I have decided on G&P ( I already rock out a G&P M16 for the past year). The only thing that concerns me is not being able to quick change the springs. I attend a lot of events at several fields that are anywhere between 1 hour to 7 hours of driving to them. Most of the fields have different FPS limits so with my M16 I tend to bounce between a Prometheus MS110 and MS120 spring twice a month.

 

Have you noticed any wear and tear from removing the gear box?

I would have to remove it once or twice a month to get full use out of it :-/

[Ranger Stubbs]

Been a while since I've had time to follow up with the post. Flint: I gotta take a guess on the auto-winding mechanism in the ammo box, mine does that too. May not be enough power there for the motor to hold a wound up spring in check, hence the motor reversing itself and letting the spring unwind. I'm only on the second 9V I've had to shove in there yet, so not much experience with this except for the first battery dying. It seems to run for a LOOOONG time per battery.

 

Munky: The spring changes are actually fairly easy to do as far as removal of the box assembly itself. There's nothing to worry about as far as selector switches/plates, gears to line up, small springs or screws to be lost, things like that. Internally it's pretty easy to work on too. Nothing really hard (trigger mechanisms normally really hack me off during this process) to keep in line to get the box back together either. Will never be as easy as getting at a Star's M249 series mainspring, but that's a different type of gearbox altogether anyway. It's still by far the easiest V2 I've ever worked on due to a full auto only set up. Some care should be taken cause of the tight tolerances within the box, but sounds like you know you're way around enough to make this one easy for ya.

 

AdARam: Have fun when you get your 249, keep us advised of any good/bad issues/experiences you have with it.