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FUmiYAsu

Battery Care....

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Wildchild: I do - have done for soooo many years, and I have never had a problem.

 

t04st: Not really. First off, you undercharged the battery based on the battery size and charge rate (200mA). Check the formulas. Secondly, you charged an 8.4v battery with a 12v charger. This might have caused some damage, but you may have been lucky. I wouldn't recommend continuing to use this charger with this battery.

 

bronney: It's not the greatest thing to do, but you should be ok. See if you can give that pack a good slow trickle charge next time and let it overcharge by about 10% time or so. Make sure the battery does not get hot near the end of this charging cycle.

 

Bob: Not a great idea to fast charge for the first charge, but it shouldn't do too much damage overall. You may find that the battery will not last quite as many charge/discharge cycles, but you probably won't notice. Your maths are good though. You have a large battery and a slow charger (130mA), so it will take a while. Charging at up to 300mA will still count as a trickle charge and that may take the overall time down if you have an adjustable output charger.

 

Hope that helps guys ;)

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Ok right now I have a battery adaptor for my M4 so I can hook up a Large battery, but I can only shoot off 1 Mag and then it dies. Any one know why?

 

How long have you been charging your battery for and what's it's mAh?

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Go for one of the new 1100-1200 mAh minis. I have an "Intellect" 8.4V 1200mAh nimh battery and it worls a charm.

 

Exact same size as a 600mAh nicad.

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Go for one of the new 1100-1200 mAh minis. I have an "Intellect" 8.4V 1200mAh nimh battery and it worls a charm.

 

Exact same size as a 600mAh nicad.

 

 

 

About how much is it? Oh yeah and do you think if I get it will it charge good in a large battery charger if I get a adaptor? Or do you think i'd be better off wit hgetting a type mini charger?

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Go for one of the new 1100-1200 mAh minis. I have an "Intellect" 8.4V 1200mAh nimh battery and it worls a charm.

 

Exact same size as a 600mAh nicad.

 

DarkLite, where you got your batteries and do you think it'd work in a TM version 3 gearbox? I need one desparately as I dislike the large handguard on my G36C. Sprayed painted it nice though but still would rather have the real small guard.

 

R22Master, thanks for reply, I've already gone through a second slow charge and it seems ok. Mine's trickle though so I should be able to charge the 600mAh batteries at 600mA :)

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What a top topic. Very informative, got everything I needed to know, Sweet and have just ordered my 8.4V 3000mah Kan Cell for my G36C with upgraded spring.

 

Heres to a higher rate of fire with (hopefully) uncooked internals!

 

thanks R22Master, you da man

 

Regards

Joker33

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Joker33,

 

Depends how you gonna mod the fusebox or if you have a larger handguard instead, the large batteries may not fit :) Just in case.

 

And I believe a higher ROF is dependent on the Voltage, not Ampere. Amps just means it lasts longer, or a more sustained current for your full autos.

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Hello guys I am pretty new to airsoft but not new to Batteries. I used to be a sponsored R/C car driver. 1% more battery power meant a win/loss.

 

There is great info in this thread. I do have to disagree with some of the info posted above.

 

***All batteries are not the same no matter what they are labelled at.

Batteries have many designations on them, many different compounds and treatments.***

 

If you can, try to buy batteries designed for R/C car use. These batteries have lots of Wierd Science put into them to try to better their competitor. Remote Controlled car batteries have different specs than regualr batteries. the cell type will be something like scr or scrc etc.

 

 

things to look for

 

- Sanyo, and GP make the best cells.

the large size (commonly used for R/C cars) give more ROF than the Mini size batteries even with the same specs as the internal resistance is lower.

 

NEVER overcharge a battery. batteries will vent harmful gasses if overcharged enough.

it is safe to charge Nicad full size batteries (sub C) at up to 5 amps. NiMh cells are safe at 2.5 Amps. You can do more but it can damage the cells.

The more amps you charge at, the more punch the cells will give granting you more ROF but less run time.

 

Spend the money on a peak detection charger. Your batteries will last many times longer.

 

The factory battery connectors are garbage. R/C car shops will have better connectors available. This may sound extreme but if you are running over 8.4 V I would suggest it.

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NEVER overcharge a battery. batteries will vent harmful gasses if overcharged enough.

it is safe to charge Nicad full size batteries (sub C) at up to 5 amps. NiMh cells are safe at 2.5 Amps. You can do more but it can damage the cells.

The more amps you charge at, the more punch the cells will give granting you more ROF but less run time.

 

 

About how long should you charge it after the first long charge right when you get it.... and it the battery is not charging does it loose energy?

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About how long should you charge it after the first long charge right when you get it.... and it the battery is not charging does it loose energy?

 

 

without a peak detection charger like the DURATRAX ICE you can never be sure. The math provided in the posts above is the only real way to be close to a proper charge.

 

packs will lose energy after a few hours of charging. If charging a day before you can repeak (using a peak charger) before heading out to the field. It would be nearly impossible to use the math to figure out the loss from storage.

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Hey everyone,

 

I don't normally get out to the forums, but I ended up here and I just had to throw some information your way.

 

I read everything people have to say and agree with some and disagree with others so lets see if I can get things straight.

 

Let's start off with the gun itself, RPM's and Torque. While these two specs are closely related, RPM's are based strictly on the magnetic force applied within the motor. The larger the force, the more RPM's. So if the question is, "How do I get higher RPM's", the technical answer is to increase the magnetic force within the motor. To do this you can either increase the CURRENT, LENGTH of internal wire, or MAGNETIC FIELD. You look at your option and realize the only thing you really have control over is the current.

 

** Please note that it is CURRENT that increases RPM's, not voltage or power **

 

Torque is the amount of angular force that is applied on your gears. Basicallyl torque can be calculated by taking the magnetic force and multiplying it by the lever arm within the motor. But this has no bearing on batteries so I'll leave it at that.

 

Now you might be willing to say that adding voltage increases RPM's. This is only due to the relation of current and voltage through Ohm's Law, of which the only factors you have control over are resistance and voltage, but it is incorrect to say that voltage flow (incorrect terminology, voltage doesn't flow) is what makes a gun shoot faster.

 

Since it is evident that increasing the voltage will increase the RPM's (via current increase) I don't need to go over this, but I do need to shed some light on the "theory" that increasing the capacity (mAh) will increase RPM's (via current increase).

 

First, as someone else has already stated, every battery pack is different. Different cells, differnt internal impedence, different chemistries, and just not comparable on a 1-to-1 standard. In general, capacity is just that, capacity. It has no bearing on increasing voltage or decreasing resistance and therefore does not affect system current.

 

So the question comes up, "Why do I get a noticable rise in RPM's by putting in a higher capacity battery?" The answer to this is slightly complicated... Basically, it comes down to internal impedence, the higher this is, the farther the voltage will drop during a sustained current pull. Airsoft guns pull quite a lot of amps. An airsoft gun is the simplest of electrical circuits consisting of a battery, switch, and load (motor).

 

With no load other than the motor, the resistance is very, very low. Normal amperage is anywhere from approx. 10A to 30A (for the crazy 12v guns). Most batteries are not designed to handle large current pulls for sustained times.

 

The higher the current, the lower the voltage will drop when a load is applied to the battery (i.e. pulling the trigger, completing the circuit, powering the motor). Most cells range from 5mO to 30mO. Generally if you stay below 10mO you will have a good response.

 

This is why when Ni-MH were first becoming mainstream (5 years ago), airsofters deemed them unsuitable. This was because of a higher internal impedence (avg. 25mO) for most cells. Today there have been increases in technology for the chemistry involved and some Ni-MH can get as low as 7mO. The variances between Ni-Cd and Ni-MH was due to the chemistry involved in their production, yet again another topic of discussion somewhere else.

 

Now most places don't come right out and say what the internal impedence of a pack is since for most applications it is negligable. But another term that may be seen is discharge rate, commonly seen as C/X (i.e. C/10, C/4, 10C, etc.). This rate will give you a determining factor on whether or not your gun will start to die out a second or two after you pull the trigger. The way you read this is take the capacity of the battery, C, and divide (or multiply) by the number. This is your discharge rate, and at this rate you can normally see nominal voltage. Obviously 10C would be ideal, especially for those who use high-voltage batteries (10.8v,12v) and Sanyo has recently come out with new cells (Ni-MH) that achieve this rate. Of course on the other side of things, a rate of C/10 will be horrible for an airsoft gun.

 

The only reason a higher capacity battery would give you higher RPM's is if the cells themselves had a lower internal impedence.

 

Well, hopefully there is enough info here to allow people to make some more informed choices in their airsoft carriers. If I missed anything, please let me know.

 

Phoenix

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I'd say that's a pretty effective summary personally, especially for someone who knows very little about the physics behind the field (*edit* like me, that is - I just realised that could be taken the wrong way!) Well done Phoenix... :)

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anybody ever tried Li-Polymer cells on an aeg before??? i have a few cells left from my electric airplance flying days....wonder is it possible ?

 

 

I do not trust Li-po cells to take the abuse an AEG would deal out. Li-po's can explode. Depending on your gun (I use a p90) the batteries are pretty close to your face.

 

some Li-po's have protection circuitry some do not. I would hope yours would have it if you were using them in a AEG. some airplane/helicopter radio equipment has it built in so the battery packs wouldn't have it.

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I have a TLP 4000 charger and cannot figure out charging times. I see the adjustment for the Mah level of the battery. Does this charger cut of by itself? otherwise how long to charge a 8.4 1700 mah battery?

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I have the same charger and batteries as you also. For the first charge I did a slow charge at 600mAh level for 16 hours (plug in no press required). Subsequent ones I do the lowerest mAh I believe something like 110mAh, press twice, so it discharge, slow charge 2 mins., then fast charge. This usually takes 3 hours.

 

It's supposed to auto cutoff but I guess they cut off by auto trickle charge slow. Like it beeps every 6 seconds when it's full.

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I have the same charger and batteries as you also.  For the first charge I did a slow charge at 600mAh level for 16 hours (plug in no press required).  Subsequent ones I do the lowerest mAh I believe something like 110mAh, press twice, so it discharge, slow charge 2 mins., then fast charge.  This usually takes 3 hours.

 

It's supposed to auto cutoff but I guess they cut off by auto trickle charge slow.  Like it beeps every 6 seconds when it's full.

 

 

I've got the same charger and a slightly larger battery (8.4v 2400 mah) I've just put it on slow at the setting just above your's, which i firgure is right form some instructions I've been given, but is the charger charging it when beeping every 6 seconds? as I've just plugged the battery in and left it and it just beeps :\

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