Apex Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 ok. im a bit stuck here. maybe somebody can spell this out for me i have a 3300 Mah Ni-mH battery, which i've charged once at 300 MA for around 24 hours to condition it it fired about 5k rounds then died. fine i thought i then charged it on 600 MA for around 12 hours. it managed about 5 rounds then died?? which made no sence to me.. so i set it back to 300 MA and left it on over night, probably about 15 hours or so. again, it only managed about 5 rounds then died... so what am i doing wrong? thanks edit - its 8.4v <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What charger you got ? Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 8.4v 3300mah @ 130ma = 35.53 and 8.4 2200mah @ 130ma = 23.69 and before you say, the charger only has a trickle charge of 130ma the only other option is a fast charge. Link to post Share on other sites
Guges Mk3 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 You don't fuel a Ferrari with a IV bag do you? So why would one do that with high performance battery. My analogy is saying: NIMH don't charge very well on cheapy trickle chargers...get a real "NIMH" certified charger. Dumb ones start at $20 and have an ouput of 2000mah...it will have your pack charged in a little over 1.5 hours. Don't skimp on batteries and chargers...it will cause you more headaches then necessary. Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 ok. im a bit stuck here. maybe somebody can spell this out for me i have a 3300 Mah Ni-mH battery, which i've charged once at 300 MA for around 24 hours to condition it it fired about 5k rounds then died. fine i thought i then charged it on 600 MA for around 12 hours. it managed about 5 rounds then died?? which made no sence to me.. so i set it back to 300 MA and left it on over night, probably about 15 hours or so. again, it only managed about 5 rounds then died... so what am i doing wrong? thanks edit - its 8.4v <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm, I did this same calculation on the previous page so reading this thread before posting would have saved you a lot of time, and me a lot of effort. However, for the sake of argument, here it is again... The Equation you need: --------------------------------------------------------- Total Battery Capacity (mAh) divided by Charge Rate (mA) multiplied by 1.4 --------------------------------------------------------- 3,300mAh (Total Battery Capacity) divided by 300mA (Charge Rate) multiplied by 1.4 = 11 multiplied by 1.4 = 15.4 hours charge time Charging yours for 24 hours is excessive to say the least. Then doing basically the same thing a second time but at a higher charge rate has probably fried your battery. The charge time at 300mA should be 15.4 hours. At 600mA it works out as follows... 3,300mAh (Total Battery Capacity) divided by 600mA (Charge Rate) multiplied by 1.4 = 5.5 multiplied by 1.4 = 7.7 hours charge time If you charged your pack at 600mA for 12 hours, again you contributed to it cooking itself. 7.7 hours (about 7 hours and 40 minutes) is the maximum time it should be charged at 600mA. Link to post Share on other sites
Apex Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 You don't fuel a Ferrari with a IV bag do you? So why would one do that with high performance battery. My analogy is saying: NIMH don't charge very well on cheapy trickle chargers...get a real "NIMH" certified charger. Dumb ones start at $20 and have an ouput of 2000mah...it will have your pack charged in a little over 1.5 hours. Don't skimp on batteries and chargers...it will cause you more headaches then necessary. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Erm this was no cheap charger.....just saying the trickle charge on it is 130ma, the fast charge allows me to pick any setting from 500ma upto around 1000 iirc. Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 You don't fuel a Ferrari with a IV bag do you? So why would one do that with high performance battery. My analogy is saying: NIMH don't charge very well on cheapy trickle chargers...get a real "NIMH" certified charger. Dumb ones start at $20 and have an ouput of 2000mah...it will have your pack charged in a little over 1.5 hours. Don't skimp on batteries and chargers...it will cause you more headaches then necessary. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> eh? NiMH packs charge fine on trickle chargers. You don't need a NiMH specific charger unless the charger solicits information from the battery (i.e. the charger detects the condition of the battery and adjusts its behaviour accordingly). I have never used an NiMH specific or compatible charger and only ever use NiMH packs. I have NEVER had a problem (except for one time when I accidentally gave a full rapid charge to an already charged battery and cooked it - but that is not related to the charger - just my fault). The issue that Cal9000 is having above is also caused by overcharging, not charger capabilities or compatability. Link to post Share on other sites
Cal9000 Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 thanks for the help guys, but... my friend came around eailer with his chargers and batteries. the battery also had zero effect on my gun, so the problem DID lie with the gun itself and not the battery/charging combination. after taking the gun to bits i discovered that one of the wires leading into the gear box was slightly loose, as too cause intermitent fire.. then stop, creating the illusion of a battery dieing! fixed, problem solved. again thanks for your help anyway PS i did read all of this thread before posting Link to post Share on other sites
PaNdeMiC Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Just a short question: Can anyone tell me why I should buy this large battery when there's also this one? Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Because it's $1 cheaper? Nah, some people prefer Ni-Cad packs to Mi-MH packs because of the discharge curve. Ni-Cad packs tend to pack a little more punch per mAh, but as the other pack is double the capacity, you won't notice much difference. Personally, I would go for the Ni-MH pack. Link to post Share on other sites
PaNdeMiC Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 And this intellect battery will fit into any ICS or CA MP5 with the fix stock and won't cause too much stress because of high mAh, right? Btw I'm not really sure which voltage I should use in ICS or CA guns, 8.4V or rather 9.6V? Link to post Share on other sites
Guges Mk3 Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Because it's $1 cheaper? Nah, some people prefer Ni-Cad packs to Mi-MH packs because of the discharge curve. Ni-Cad packs tend to pack a little more punch per mAh, but as the other pack is double the capacity, you won't notice much difference. Personally, I would go for the Ni-MH pack. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What do you mean a NICD has more punch? GP 3300 IR3 Sanyo 2400 IR6...so how would these cells compare on "punch" Measure ouput in volts 1.41 for the GP3300 - no load draw. Measure output for Sanyo 2400 1.22v - no load draw. From direct experience and a battery pack assembler conveying his wisdom..."some" trickler chargers "will not charge a NIMH pack in a timely and proper manner." And by trickle, I mean the fixed output variety... Link to post Share on other sites
PaNdeMiC Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Could you please write the last paragraph again without riddling? I'm pretty confused Link to post Share on other sites
DBACPhoenix Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 What do you mean a NICD has more punch? GP 3300 IR3 Sanyo 2400 IR6...so how would these cells compare on "punch" Measure ouput in volts 1.41 for the GP3300 - no load draw. Measure output for Sanyo 2400 1.22v - no load draw. From direct experience and a battery pack assembler conveying his wisdom..."some" trickler chargers "will not charge a NIMH pack in a timely and proper manner." And by trickle, I mean the fixed output variety... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Typically, NiCd batteries have more "Punch" since their chemistry allows for low internal resistance. It wasn't until recently that NiMH batteries began to hit low IR's. The GP 3300 NiMH is also not IR = 3mO, it is more like 6+mO (GP 3300 Data Sheet) While a Sanyo 2400 is not IR = 6mO, but 4.5mO (Sanyo 2400 Data Sheet) If you want to get a decent battery, I would forget about buying battery packs from airsoft stores. Go to a place like Batteries America or Battery Station and pick out the cells you want and the configuration you want. They will be cheaper, and you'll know what you'll be getting. If you want to know more about the batteries, check out the manufacturers website and look at the data sheets. If you get cells with 5mO IR or less, you'll be happy with your purchase. Phoenix EDIT: IR = Internal Resistance Link to post Share on other sites
Guges Mk3 Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sorry can't edit for some reason...edit bar is missing. All I have to say is, info from China is "spotty"....they may work worse then their spec sheet stats or they may work better. If you look at the spec sheet they use a ~6, which means that is an average. TNR technical a very reputable battery supplier in the US has been testing their cells and the GP3300 are averaging 3.5mOhm...which is far better then the spec sheet stats. They also tell me they have found cells as high as 9.2mohms too. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ And NIMH will bleed power far faster then NICD. Link to post Share on other sites
DBACPhoenix Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Sorry can't edit for some reason...edit bar is missing. All I have to say is, info from China is "spotty"....they may work worse then their spec sheet stats or they may work better. If you look at the spec sheet they use a ~6, which means that is an average. TNR technical a very reputable battery supplier in the US has been testing their cells and the GP3300 are averaging 3.5mOhm...which is far better then the spec sheet stats. They also tell me they have found cells as high as 9.2mohms too. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ And NIMH will bleed power far faster then NICD. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> While I can't quite say much for GP, Sanyo is extremly reputable in the battery world so I have a lot of faith in their data sheets. You are right about the average IR, everycell will always be slightly different (hence the 5-8 rating on GP's data sheet). If you could, post where you found out that they were averaging 3.5mO on the GP cells, I am very curious if that is the case since they use the data sheet numbers on their website. Phoenix Link to post Share on other sites
PaNdeMiC Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 So in other words, the intellect batteries are garbage? Link to post Share on other sites
RSM Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Ok, my charger has an mA output set to 1000 Using the calc on the first page for my GP1100 NiMh, I get a charge time of 1.5 hours (rounded down from 1.54). The charger is a 01 charger/discharger caboodle, when I first got the battery (only had the 01 sticker on, no charge info) worked out the charge time with the calc but bearing in mind the extended first charge, left it on charge. So I com back an hour later seeing the thing at full charge (green light). No probs in testing, just wondering if I'm doing anyhting wrong only using it after about 2 hours And appaerntly my 600mah nicad will be done in 36 minutes at 1000 mA and I haven't noticed any ill effects Just wondering if I'm ultimately damaging my batteries Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 So in other words, the intellect batteries are garbage? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, not at all. They will work and they will be great. They may not be the absolute top of the tree quality wise, but you're never going to notice unless you're an electrical-engineer with a ton of expensive testing equipment. I would buy them in a heartbeat Ok, my charger has an mA output set to 1000 Using the calc on the first page for my GP1100 NiMh, I get a charge time of 1.5 hours (rounded down from 1.54). The charger is a 01 charger/discharger caboodle, when I first got the battery (only had the 01 sticker on, no charge info) worked out the charge time with the calc but bearing in mind the extended first charge, left it on charge. So I com back an hour later seeing the thing at full charge (green light). No probs in testing, just wondering if I'm doing anyhting wrong only using it after about 2 hours And appaerntly my 600mah nicad will be done in 36 minutes at 1000 mA and I haven't noticed any ill effects Just wondering if I'm ultimately damaging my batteries <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, all's good in the hood. Charging at high currents will ultimately lead to your battery not lasting quite as long, but the difference is minimal. I tend to charge all of my batteries at between 3,000mA and 5,000mA and I've never had a problem. I personally am prepared to see my batteries die slightly early, although it hasn't happened yet (Airsoft batteries going on 5 years old now and still running as well as the day I bought them - hundreds of charge/discharge cycles. Link to post Share on other sites
PaNdeMiC Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 No, not at all. They will work and they will be great. They may not be the absolute top of the tree quality wise, but you're never going to notice unless you're an electrical-engineer with a ton of expensive testing equipment. Well, that satisfies me. As regards the second part of your post: Why should I buy an expensive slow charger then if it doesn't make a real difference if I charge batteries with cheap mini fast chargers or slow charger? Btw can someone tell me again which voltage is recommended for CA and ICS guns? Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 8.4v is recommended for pretty much all AEGs. You don't need to buy an expensive second charger just so you can slow charge - I never have. In fact, I actually have a 16 hour charger, a 90 minute charger and my 20 minute charger, but I ALWAYS use the fast charger. Some people will insist that you only use a slow charger because they read somewhere that slow chargers are better for your batteries. They are correct in the sense that slow chargers are better for batteries, but not by much. A Fast Charger used well is very effective and the difference in the damage done to the batteries is negligable (batteries take a beating every single time you charge them with any charger - that is why they only have a certain number of charge/discharge cycles guaranteed. You will also notice that charge/discharge cycle guarantees NEVER mention slow chargers only). One thing worth noting though, Very fast chargers like mine (3,000mA and above) will destroy your battery FAR quicker if you overcharge them than with a slow charger. This is why it is always a good idea to have a charger that detects when your batteries are charged for you. (Mine doesn't and I have cooked one of my batteries by whacking a second full charge in to an already charged battery ) Link to post Share on other sites
Ubar Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 and won't cause too much stress because of high mAh, right?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> this is quite a common misconception so i'll put an analogy i think fits quite well- Think of the battery as a bottle of alcohol. The Voltage is the percentage proof of the alcohol, how strong it is. The mAh (Milliampere-Hours) is how much of the alcohol you have, the capacity. Link to post Share on other sites
PaNdeMiC Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 @R22: Well, I heard ICS MP5s could also easily take 9.6V (as you also wrote in your review) and I even read that it would reduce the danger of having a gb jam. Anyway, I think a 8.4V battery will be alright. And I think I'll go for an expensive charger anyway, since I saw that some fast chargers only charge up to 3Ah. And if I don't have time to wait I'll just fastcharge it which is of course also possible with the expensive charger. Thanks for your help once again. @Ubar: Yeah, I also used to think that but lots of people wrote that big capacity would cause more stress to the gears and stuff, although it doesn't make much sense to me either. Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Well, I heard ICS MP5s could also easily take 9.6V (as you also wrote in your review) and I even read that it would reduce the danger of having a gb jam. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, many guns will be able to take 9.6v or even 10.8v, but you asked what voltage is recommended for these AEGs, and the answer is 8.4v However, higher voltages will Increase danger in the event of a jam, as even more current has nowhere to go when the motor stops unexpectedly. This basically means that you have even less time to let go of the trigger before the fuse blows. If you don't have a fuse, your electircal internals will melt faster than you can say "Whoops!". Don't believe everything you read (unless I wrote it obviously) hehehe Link to post Share on other sites
RSM Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 About batteries I heard the ICS M4s can handle a 12V battery? Is that true, miiight just be thinking about it Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 Many AEGs can handle 12v, but not usually for long. 12v will spin those gears faster than the space shuttle booster pointed straight down. This will wear out the gears and piston faster than a greyhound on speed, and it will also most likely be too fast to correctly collect BBs from Hi-Cap magazines. Your motor can also burn out as it is not designed for 12 volts of power. Basically, while it is possible to run a gun on these voltages, you are damaging the gun with each shot - that's if it takes the voltage in the first place. After all, if you ran your 240v light bulb on 320v, you would expect it to burn out pretty quick. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.