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"home team" Syndrome


davecymru

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Apologies if this exists as part of a thread elsewhere - i did search first but didn't find it!

 

 

My teammates and I have been travelling around a few of the sites in the South West UK recently and we've started to notice what we like to call "home team" syndrome at quite a few of the sites.

 

By this i'm describing the people/teams who "generally" only play at one site and are regarded (normally by themselves) as the "home team" for that site.

It is these people who know every nook and cranny of the playing field and know how the vast majority of scenarios can be easily won.

 

Now that i don't have a problem with, as if they've taken time and effort to research that and come up with solutions then that's fine.

 

But what we've been finding REALLY annoying, is that if someone manages to foil their well practiced tactics on how to complete a scenario/mission then teddy gets thrown out of pram! We've actually been told that WE must be cheating when we managed to stop one team a while back as "that tactic of always works" Their words!

 

Or more recently and much more annoingly, we've noticed some of them not taking their hits (i'm not going there!) but our problem is what happens when we raise this with the Marshalls

 

Either, we get a string of excuses as to why we never hit them, some of which are bordering on science-fiction (it was a trick of the light that made the bb's "appear" to hit them)

or

we get the marshall telling us that "oh, i know xxxx, they wouldn't be cheating, you must be confused/wrong/etc.

 

Fair enough, i accept that i can get it wrong and i normally don't take skirmishing overly seriously enough to hold a grudge. But since my team started using radios we have been able to back each other up and confirm that it's not just me going senile! Yet still we encounter the same old tripe!

 

 

So i would like to know from some other of you seasoned skirmishers, if any of you have noticed a rise in this and apart from not going back to the site (some of which were otherwise EXCELLENT) how do you possibly deal with this situation?

 

Sensible ideas please :)

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Ask 'exactly how were we cheating?' see if you get a sensible answer. not 'just because'....

 

if they are not taking their hits, keep drilling until they do. Harsh, but its what I advise. I always say to players, its not for you to call someone else out, its for them to call themselves out, so just keep on hosing until they do. They'll learn soon enough.

 

Then name and shame.... Too many of uf keep quiet and assume its a one off. There may be more than one person who has suffered the same fate, and such things need to be addressed.

 

Marshalls have to be impartial and fair across the board for this all to work. Players need to know what they are going into.

 

And finally, I know you said 'other than', but boycott is still the best way. vote with your feet.

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I find the home team syndrome is worse off the field in a way. Like when turning up to a new site and asking where to sign in, you sometimes get greeted with a "are you local?" type of response....

 

Naming and shaming is the best way. One lad at a site i played at was found to be hosing people uneccesarily, week in, week out. So infront of all the other players, the marshalls called him out and an airsofty firing squad was made up of marshalls and players. Hasn't done it since...

 

Also you really must report when you see cheating. Find a marshall and tell them straight away, get them to follow that part of the team perhaps. Getting problems solved on the ground nips it in the bud, rather than letting it grow, and annoy you later on.

 

I never really understood not taking hits. It sodding hurts... i wouldn't want to play on straight away :P

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care to tell us of the sites? as im from the sw odds on i know WHO it is not just which sites and teams

 

ive run into this alot over the years of play and it sickens me alot. 9/10 the home team use stupidly upgraded guns (ive seen a 450fps pistol) as there right and hits become a sometimes thing.

 

also its one thing for a site to want to split a team up who are regs but oftern those same regs refuse as lets face ti they are a team and want to be together.

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care to tell us of the sites?

I'd rather not name names/sites in open forum (sorry) as in a few cases the sites "as a whole" were fine.

 

On the issue of teams, personally i go airsofting with my mates as a team so that we can shoot and operate as a team and i could understand why a team who practise together would object to forcibly being split up when they arrive at a skirmish site. This has happened to one team i know on a visit to a new site and it put them off going back there again! But maybe that is down to a misunderstanding of site rules before going?

 

I can see the logic behind splitting teams up, i personally just don't like/agree with it as an SOP! That said, i suppose that site operators could/should have the leeway to enforce splitting up teams that cause trouble?

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i go to the same site as staceh, and are both generally considered part of the current 'home team'.

 

however, before that, i was part of another team at the same site, who was considered the home team. we were never split up, because we went to fight as a team. we never got accused of any snobbery or anything, or abusing our position as home team. we didnt ask to be home team, we were just the most regular people that turned up as a group of 6 or more.

 

so yeah, we never got split up, and never got any complaints, on the contrary we had a good reputation, and a few teams came from other parts of the country to play us based on that rep.

 

the current home team at the site, as Staceh said, usually gets split up to divide the more experienced players amongst the newer players. nobody really complains about this. although when another team of equal size plays, we usually get to stick on the same team and fight together for a change.

 

perhaps its just the people at our site - its very laid back and jovial, not taken too seriously.

 

as for getting beaten and sour grapes - if the home team gets beaten, and im in it, im VERY impressed. as you pointed out, its a simple fact - regulars know the site better than anyone. if a team can beat the regulars, they did very well. thats not being big headed, thats a fact.

 

just my thoughts

 

edit - because im pissing out typos <_<

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I think its fun to change teams around, you get to play with and against different people that way, especially at sites where its mostly the same bunch of regs that turn up to everygame.

 

Altho sometimes you want to play as your team to get some practice in for an upcoming event.

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I've played a site where the first thing that happened after arrival was they asked all the new guys to put their hands up. Fair enough, I though, they want to give us a hand...

 

We were all put on one team and told to hold an objective while they assaulted.

 

They had smoke and bb grenades that weren't offered to us, that had a large number of sniper rifles (one claimed was firing at 800fps, and while I'm doubtful it certainly was over powered) while the hire guns that most of the new guys had were crippled by barrel wobble and dodgy battery connectors.

 

If felt like the "home team" picking on the little guys for their amusement.

 

The only option was to 'vote with my feet' in that kind of environment there is little you can do to change the way things are run. It was easier to fine a better site that is more friendly and better run.

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I was with fire_storm that day. The worst bit was when with the same teams as the first game they told us to escort a VIP to the other side of the site. We had no idea where we were going. They just said its over that way pointing.

 

The other problem was quite how patronising they were. When doing an attack and defend we were complemented on getting so close to the tower (We got to about twenty meters from it before we were all taken out by sniper fire) then when defending we were praised on how long we lasted. If no one expects us to win why bother playing. I mean its not like we just play to win but it's nice to know you have a chance of success.

 

Wilfire

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I've played a site where the first thing that happened after arrival was they asked all the new guys to put their hands up. Fair enough, I though, they want to give us a hand...

 

We were all put on one team and told to hold an objective while they assaulted.

 

They had smoke and bb grenades that weren't offered to us, that had a large number of sniper rifles (one claimed was firing at 800fps, and while I'm doubtful it certainly was over powered) while the hire guns that most of the new guys had were crippled by barrel wobble and dodgy battery connectors.

 

If felt like the "home team" picking on the little guys for their amusement.

 

The only option was to 'vote with my feet' in that kind of environment there is little you can do to change the way things are run. It was easier to fine a better site that is more friendly and better run.

 

I have suffered from a similar fate, and it was my first time airsofting. Not enough to put me off though :)

 

When someone would complain about the teams or ask if we could switch teams, they would be accused of being a sore looser. Then they would use the old "Well they are team, teams aren't supposed to get split up are they?" excuse.

 

I just didn't go back to the site. Cowardly in it's own way, but I'm not going to do something i enjoy while getting beat all the time.

 

Sometimes it's nice to win :(

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The other problem was quite how patronising they were. When doing an attack and defend we were complemented on getting so close to the tower (We got to about twenty meters from it before we were all taken out by sniper fire) then when defending we were praised on how long we lasted. If no one expects us to win why bother playing. I mean its not like we just play to win but it's nice to know you have a chance of success.

 

Wilfire

 

They complimented you, and you thought it was patronising?

 

Perhaps next time you will refine your tactics, take the positions and you can compliment them on their defence!

 

 

The 'home team' syndrome appears to trouble all sites. We had the same problem, virtually stand up fights at team meetings when the regular team were told it wasn't fair on new players and they would have to split (even for part of the day) Toys were thrown from prams, rude words were said, and eventually the regular team started going elsewhere.

A new group of regulars turned up and initially they would split, and then slowly the 'he's my mate, I don't want to shoot him' attitude started to appear.

 

The only sensible course of action is to split the regulars at the very begining of their playing career into two teams, and allocate new players to balance up the firepower.

 

Its unbelievable the grief caused by simply wanting to shoot someone with a little plastic ball!

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Now I must come to the defence of the KGB site (the one which Fire Storm and Wilfire are referring to). I was present on the day in question.

 

Firstly, yes the 'team' in a very loose sense of the word was put up against the new guys to the site (this was raised with the Team Captain when it all came out), but you were accompanied by some of our very experienced regulars on your side. Would you have preferred to be split up?

The VIP game is set up like that for the very reason it is intense for the new guys to play. Besides, the person you were protecting was intimitely aware of where you should be going. Thats why he was with you. I guess you didnt like it.

 

Likewise, each scenario is not designed to be a complete whitewash, you had every chance of success. What would the other side gain from that? nothing I tell you. situations have to be hard in order to improve and if you found our (mine included) compliments patronising then I apologise, that was not the intention. We were genuinely impressed.

 

As for over powered rifles, well I find the comment quite insulting seeing as it relates to me directly and is accusing me of running a hot gun (800 my backside, and I would like to know who was smoking what with that comment).

My VSR which I was using that day crono's at 472 (on average) and thats confirmed by 2 independant cronos (F&O and Grange Farm), which is well within the our published site limits.

 

Grenades are available to all, not that we have any in stock at the moment, but when we do, they are. As for smokes, we dont sell them, the only person I know who uses them is Jezz.

 

The hire guns work perfectly well, and if they suffer any problems, you should have mentioned it to me to get it changed. I will have said this when I handed it to you.

 

Likewise, I heard nothing of your displeasure until you disapeared and then threw the comment on the forum. We are all aproachable and want to make the experience enjoyable for all. You should have come and talked to someone, but hey ho, you live and learn.

 

But like you said, you voted with your feet and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. I am just balancing the veiw a little.

 

Although I am not entirely sure how it relates to the initial argument of teams claiming visitors cannot beat them because they know the site so well, or not taking their hits and Marshalls backing this up for them.

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I must say, I think the whole idea of "home teams" and "visiting teams" is asking for trouble.

The home team will always, as you say, assume they have the upper hand.

A visiting team will, however, always be "on a mission" to kick the home teams *albatross*.

 

I once saw a single player hold off about 6 or 7 attackers (including me) for about 20 minutes. People were firing moscarts at his position, hosing and even chucking pyro's in.

He kept returning fire and, eventually, people started accusing him of not taking his hits.

Eventually tensions began to run quite high and 2 or 3 guys started to complain quite vocally to the marshals.

After about 10 minutes of this The marshal actually blew the whistle to stop the game and allowed the attackers to go and have a look at the position where the defender was.

 

It was empty.

 

The guy was allowing himself to be seen in one place, making a few shots and then falling back while a couple of team-mates laid down fire from alternative positions further back and to the sides.

The attackers would press forward, get shot and drop back.

That's when the guy would move back up and allow himself to be seen again.

 

The attackers just couldn't understand that they were focussed on the guy bouncing around in front of them while it was 2 guys in other positions that was doing all the damage.

 

In short, don't assume that you MUST be hitting who you're shooting at.

If an attacker makes a complaint about somebody not taking hits most sites will send a marshal to go and observe the person in question, irrespective of if they're from the "home team" or not.

 

Personally, if a bunch of guys are going to play at another site, I'd suggest dividing up into different teams. That should avoid an "us and them" mentality.

Any site worth a damn will try to do this to avoid problems.

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I was VERY wary of the "us and them" scenario when i initially started spotting what i now think of as "home team syndrome". And i want it known that i REALLY don't mean to have a go at site regulars who are just good at what they do.

 

But after travelling more and talking to more people it led me to posting this topic to see what others have experienced and what some sites do to combat this situation arising.

 

I'm always a bit self deprecating, so obviously i'll question myself first before calling for a marshall, as i have been on both ends of the "i MUST be shooting them" scenario as is described above. But the preferential treatment i've seen towards home team members REALLY gets up my nose!

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it might be asking for trouble - but only if the teams have those sort of people in. as i said earlier, the home team at the site i go to is so laid back its unreal. we're not the home team cos we think were big, its because we are the most regular, half are personal friends of the site owner, and most are/have been marshalls. its just natural, not chosen.

 

if you get the right people, right atmosphere, sites can support a few different teams easily, this happens where i play. there are 4 or 5 regular teams. none think they're better than anyone else, and nobody ever really complains. obviously theres the usual hit taking and overkill comment here and there, nothing out of the ordinary.

 

perhaps it IS just the nature of people in East Anglia lol. threads like this make me realise how mint my site is.

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True, but you have to give them the option.

 

When I go a travellin' I personally dont care who I am put with. Its all good fun.

 

As for 'team' down here, its more of a case of 'if you're regular, you're in'. You get the keys to the corporate toilet and the such like. We have a number of 'foreign' players (from other sites) who are counted as 'team members'.

 

I think the only time we have actually played 'as a team in the true sense of the word is on away days such as Stirling etc.

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