"home team" Syndrome

[Mt_05]

I personally find that when I'm put with people I'm meeting for the first time we work better.

 

It's also a good way to make friends on a site.

 

The first few airsoft games i played were ruined due to lack of communication between me and the team i was on due to me being a shy bugger.

 

But i soon learned that the only way to success is through communication, and the only way to acquire that communication is to know who you're playing with.

 

Even if you're just on your just sitting in the safe zone before the match, even knowing their name is good enough.

 

What I'm trying to get at is that new people are too shy. It's not their fault as it can be intimidating.

 

I'm sure marshalls/regulars try their best to do that.

 

Sadly the first site i played at left me hanging high and dry. I would try to talk to them and they would literally just pretend i didn't exist.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[Dave_gray2077]

This home team thing happen to me on my first few games when I started air softing and found a local sight.

 

Even now some of the older regulars always try to put all the new ppl on one team and give them a good thrashing. They think it is a funny form of initiation.

 

It ok now as we just random the teams now and if one team is getting the ###### kicked out of it we “even up the skill” so you get some good games and not a day of white washes.

[Janno]

At Elektrowerks, we have several home teams (around 8, last i counted). However, the largest of these is Firefight DarkAngel - and as they carry the Firefight name, it is one of their responsibilities to take newbies on board and show them the ropes with regards to the site. Also, the only times they are permitted to play together are Team challenges, and Oldskool Night (where everyone has a 300 round limit in their AEG). At any other time, they are split 50/50.

 

The newbies are either split 50/50, or if they insist on playing together (sometimes we get large groups of them turn up), they are given the most aggressive and experienced players on the site to support them.

 

As for the other home teams, because they are comparitively small, they are rarely split. The only time you will see them act as an isolated group will be Team vs. Team games, and Team challenges.

 

Rather than be biased towards the Home Teams, the marshals at Elektrowerks are under strict orders to scrutinise them as much as possible. Carelessness by newbies (blindfiring, late hit-calling etc...) is to be expected, and is easily dealt with. However, the same carelessness by our Home Teams is not as easily forgivable, and brings shame on my site and its staff if it is allowed to occur. Certainly, there are many perks granted to our Home Teams (access to closed special events, PR events, discounts, etc...), but in return, we expect only the highest standards of play and conduct from them. I have the same attitude towards my staff, and though i love them like family, they know that bullying the little guy results in them being asked to leave the marshalling team. Period.

 

Rather than having a group of people who isolate themselves and reject the other punters on site (i too have experienced "Home Team Syndrome" at a couple of sites), the players at Elektrowerks are very sociable, and because of the nature of the games, you never know who you're going to be fighting next

[starburst]

Somtimes people like to go and play a team on their own ground, its what makes this game more of a sport and for some a better hobby.

 

At my local site we try to get a balance of the teams, obviously some people prefer to play together where possible but we try and balance out the teams with experience and firepower, especially when it comes to snipers.

 

Unfortunatly thats one thing you cant always do, although I think snipers kind of kill off the game sometimes when they can hit you from a perfect position and theres no way to get near enuff to them (but thats the sniper doing his job I guess)

 

Theres no way really for a home team there to get the upper hand, the structure of the site changes fairly often with the development of different bases keeping things fresh.

[TheBauer]

I can pretty much only echo the words from Staceh and Screaming Weasel.

 

Our site, has a couple of 'home' teams, but its a very laid back site, were all there to have fun.

 

Yes we know the layout of the site, how to get from a to b the best possibly way, great ambush positions etc, but we dont play the same games all day every weekend, we have a few regular games then a couple of new games or new twists on games to change things around. this stops us all having complete advantage.

 

TBH i also find it nice when we are actualy beaten by another team, this just shows that we dont know everything and we learn things from it, our site has a very high reputation of hit taking, and honesty, and we rarely get any problems (well around 3pm on a sunday when everybody is tired from a weekend of skirmishing the ropes can sometimes get thin, but a cup of tea sorts that out ) if theres any question on foul play the marshels step in, as weasels said most the regulars have marshelled, and each weekend couple of us get chosen as player marshels to, at least 2 per team,

 

If we see team mates get hit we point it out, the nature of the games we play means were not out for long, maybe a minuate at the most with constant respawns, so where as a site where you have 1 life and after your hit youve gota get healed by a medic, and believe me ive been to sites where you can get hit in the first 10mins of the game and sit out for the rest of the 50mins then another 20mins break, its not worth the money, and sites like that i feel lack aggression as people dont wana get shot and have to sit out. its those sort of sites i feel that suffer from the most cheating.

 

anyhow heres an open invite, if any of you wana come to our site, its in suffolk near barton mills, website: http://www.gunmanairsoft.co.uk just outside of cambridge.

[finderella1]

Just to back up what Janno said, I'm new to the game, had my first 2 games at Electrowerkz and there were no problems at all, including related to the home teams. For anyone out there considering their first game there, don't worry!

 

edited sweet spelling

[GuzziHero]

At Unreal there are many places where the regular can hide and make things very difficult for the uninitiated. Thats why we *always* add some regular into the other side to balance things unless the other side specifically dont want our guys. We have a team 'uniform' of ACU but not everyone has it (or is prepared tow wear it in my case) so we can always slip effortlessly into another team.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we like beating each other as well as non-regulars. That, and the general attitude that we really dont care who wins. We dont count game wins and see who won more at the end.

 

I guess its a matter of atmosphere.

[davecymru]

That's interesting to hear from a few of you about player marshals, as on those sites where regulars also play as marshals are where we've encountered most "issues".

 

The reasons i could see were that the regs playing as marshals were very reluctant to go against anything their "mates" said if an issue arose. As "they're my mate i know they wouldn't be cheating" and "i know how they play you couldn't possibly have hit them like you say".

 

Now i'm not a kiddie and i normally take even the most dubious of hits as i've got quite a good reputation (or so i think) and i don't want that tarnished. But don't you think that allowing regulars who have also been playing that day to then marshall is a cause of trouble?

 

Yes, by all means let them marshall, but only if they're not there to play as well. well.... maybe for the final few games to have a laugh. So that their role on the day is clearly defined? Or does that count as a mild form of character assassination as it implies you can't trust them??

 

My thinking is this: If they've been playing then they're already hyped up. Also they know roughly what people have annoyed them while playing, so why would they then believe them if one of those raised an issue?

 

I'm only playing devils advocate here you understand and i'm not intending on slagging off anyone who's posting here so far. Far from it - i've got to talk to the lads about a trek to gunman sometime now, oh, and make sure we're on best behaviour when we go

[QQexDERA]

Dont even get me started about "player marshalls" IMHO, you can either play 100% or marshall 100%. It is simply NOT possible to do both to the level required at the same time.

 

Player marshalls are useful for dealing with issues that suddenly crop up (people damaging themeselves, intruders in the game area), and thats about it in my opinion.

[screamin_weasel]

sounds to me like you're basing your opinion on your local site.

 

one of the points that perhaps isnt obvious, is that at our site the player marshalls SUPPLEMENT standard marshalls. we always have marshalls walking about the site in hi vis clothing, aswell as player marshalls on the teams.

 

as Bauer said, we have player marshalls embedded in the teams. i dont see why playing and marshalling is such a bad idea. if you've got people who are mature enough and decent enough, its one the best things to have IMO. they know how the games are played, what the objectives are, where they are, where re-spawns are. if somebody needs to know that information, its quicker to ask a player marshall than leave the firefight, wandering about looking for a 'normal' marshall.

 

player marshalls are on the same radio channel as proper marshalls, so they are in constant contact if problems arise, or changes are made to the game.

 

My thinking is this: If they've been playing then they're already hyped up. Also they know roughly what people have annoyed them while playing, so why would they then believe them if one of those raised an issue?

 

thats assuming the players entrusted with marshalling aren't mature enough to handle the job. which doesnt happen. its not just a case of turning up 3 times in a row and being a player marshall. none of the marshalls have been airsofting at the site less than a year, im the youngest at 21, and we all turn up to 80% of games. its not a job just anybody gets offered.

 

having a player marshall is good for teams, because they KNOW theres somebody on their team who knows everything. theres always somebody who knows how to react to any situation.

 

Dont even get me started about "player marshalls" IMHO, you can either play 100% or marshall 100%. It is simply NOT possible to do both to the level required at the same time.

 

perhaps not, but the player marshalls know this, and most concentration is put on marshalling. they dont pay for the games, so they arent concerned about getting there moneys worth of shooting or anything,

 

Player marshalls are useful for dealing with issues that suddenly crop up (people damaging themeselves, intruders in the game area), and thats about it in my opinion.

 

dont know about you, but if thats "all" their good for, im glad we have them. if im laying in a ditch with a snapped leg, im glad i can get on teh radio to my player marshall directly, than have to wait for somebody to contact a game marshall, who then has to get to me. the player marshall could even be with me when i injure myself. well worth having player marshalls if you ask me.

[davecymru]

thats assuming the players entrusted with marshalling aren't mature enough to handle the job. which doesnt happen. its not just a case of turning up 3 times in a row and being a player marshall. none of the marshalls have been airsofting at the site less than a year, im the youngest at 21, and we all turn up to 80% of games. its not a job just anybody gets offered.

 

I know that this is a potentially "dangerous" topic, so please don't get me wrong i'm not having a go at you or your mates reputations as i don't know you. I'm just raising what i've seen over the 12 years that i've been actively airsofting (before joining Arnies i tended to keep myself to myself) and i'm interested in hearing how others handle this sort of situation as in my opinion it can make or break a site.

 

But on two of the three sites we've visited where player marshals were used (we've been to more sites where they weren't used) there were some VERY "iffy" judgement made by player marshals when their friends/teammates were involved in the dispute.

 

Now, I don't want to get maturity confused with age as i know some VERY mature people who are still in their teens and some very immature older people! and the marshals i'm alluding to weren't what i'd class as immature. But i am questioning the rights/wrongs of the impartiality of judgements they might make in an already highly tense situation involving people they know. At the end of the day i suppose it comes down to the individuals involved?

[screamin_weasel]

At the end of the day i suppose it comes down to the individuals involved?

 

thats pretty much it. perhaps we just got lucky, and we got all the right people. there are people who fight at our site who i wouldnt offer the marshalling to however long they'd been there, simply because its not in their nature to be impartial. not on purpose maybe, but they just get too involved in playing which, as previously mentioned, can be a problem.

 

tbh, i thought more people would have spoken up about the benefits of player marshalls, but perhaps at Gunman where i play, we are just lucky. all i can point it to is the attitude and atmosphere of almost everybody who marshalls/player marshalls/is regular. none of us are concerned if we get called out, and were all too happy to tell our mates they got shot hahaha.

 

its laid back, jovial, nobody takes themselves seriosuly. a lot of the time it seems a shooting weekend at gunman is the chance to take the ###### out of your mates, and do a bit of shooting as a bonus. its just a laugh. during and after games people are just constantly laughing. they're not pretending to be soldiers, or take themsleves majorly seriously, its as though everybody is fully aware of the situation - we're running about in the woods with toy guns.

 

this makes for the attitude and ease that makes player marshalls possible. we can be serious, when the time calls for it, but its rarely needed. what simportant is that the player marshalls dont act as though they are more important than anybody else. they may well be, but they don't act it.

 

tbh, its hard to describe why or how it works, it just does. obviously at some places it does, and some places it doens't. come and see for yourself.

 

this is a good thread lol. the most in depth ive been in anything on here for yonks.

[pbunyan]

i agree with weasel, staceh and thebauer, Gunman is a very good site, ive only been to three skirmishes, all of them there, and ill keep going back, even though its an hours drive away!

 

for noobs like me, player marshalls are great, it means that if i forget anything in game, i can just ask a player marshall on my side, and they also help us out a lot. they also carry first aid kits just in case, and can easily get on the radio and call a non player marshall or the site owner if theres an accident or if something goes wrong. everyone theres pretty laid back as well, which makes it a great place to play!

 

 

about the 'home team syndrome', i really dont see the point in the home team playing all together on normal days. its great to have a team to play against teams from other sites, but other than that, you get a massive imbalance of knowledge and skill. and if its a home team against all the new people, how are the people on the home team supposed to get any better? they need to practice against people of equal skill to help them improve, and this usually means the member sof the team playing each other, with a few others on each side

 

after all, were doing this to have fun, so why not the teams up a little bit, and give yourself a challenge (also, you could get bragging rights for taking out all your friends )

[Stealthbomber]

I think EVERY player is also a player/marshal to a certain extent.

 

There's occasions where I've been hiding behind a log with a guy behind me and BBs will start pinging all around me. I turn around and look at the other guy and, after a split-second hesitation, his hand will come up and he'll call hit.

Now, TBH, in those situations I DO wonder if he'd have called it if he'd been there by himself.

 

 

As others have said, I think games where a player only has 1 "life" or where you can only respawn after a certain objective is achieved will always encourage cheating.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that your games shold be conducted on the basis of having balanced forces and then allowing almost immediate respawns.

That way the games never become stupidly one-sided AND players don't worry about getting hit.

[DirtyMoFo]

hmm, well this weekend gone we played at my 'home site', however having just joined another team as a detachment under our team name, we were playing with the 'foreign' players, who were members of the team our team have joined, regardless, the team is experienced, uses radios, and proper tactics and the like.. well the guys i usually play with are much less erious airsofters than the team im in, and my team to an extent, and i found that A LOT of the other team (all teh normal players at the site) were cheating lots, not calling hits, not respawning where they should be etc. which surprised me alot, since this is very rarely the case.. but my belief is that they were so overwhelmed with the quality of play on our teams part (this was our team of 7 vs. thier team of 14) that they began cheating to try and come nearer to winning against us. but at the end of the day its a case of not wanting to get beaten by some other team that you odnt know i think...

[angel_wings]

I happen to think player marshals work.

 

However i do understand how difficult a job it can be, for example in the summer i was accused of cheating, as two moscarts "Had to have hit me". Luckily for me i had a player marshal directly behind me in my position who could clearly see they both had come nowhere near. Problem was cleared up easily.

 

Its an odd atmosphere at Eversley. Us locals don't usually accuse anyone of cheating and we haven't had a problem. The usual response is find out why they aren't dying and shoot more.

If that doesn't work, most marshals are armed with pistols and will not hesitate to test your honesty, even in situations where there was no-one else around. But then once you have taken the hit (and the bewilderment is over) will own up to the test and spawn you back in.

 

 

Saying this i haven't been to Eversley in about 2 months due to exams

So the situation may well have changed!

[Kov]

I just never call my hits... if someone takes it then they take it. It’s my responsibility to know why I didn’t hit them. It is not my responsibility to know the answer when someone asks me “How did I miss you?” My answer: “How do I know?”

 

Still, if someone tells me they hit me, and I honestly don’t recall being hit, then I will take it. Still, I find calling hits a sign of very low sportsmanship. If your target is not calling his hits… well perhaps you are shooting at him from way to far away? Perhaps you are hitting him, but your bbs don’t leave a mark on his armor and make a sound to his radio covered ears? Perhaps he is cheating? If so, suck it up, and move in and take a shot that you know he will take. Worst case you will just get a chance to kill him again and get better at the sport.

 

I know it can make you mad sometimes, but I believe it’s worth the hassle in the end. The only time I even tell my own mates that I hit someone and they didn't take it is when I use a scope. With a scope you can actually SEE a bb hit a target instead of just guessing that it did. Especially at events where you are the only lad with a scope… then you really know who plays fair and who doesn't.

 

 

Kov

[The Waco Kid]

Good post Kov, I agree with you whole heartedly.

 

I am a member of a couple of teams but also I like to visit as many different sites around the country as possible. I usually do this as a solo walk-on or at most with one or two players I know.

 

Most sites I have visited do exhibit the Home Team Syndrome to some extent. While many sites & players have a policy of welcoming new players there are a definite minority of places that allow their "regulars" to abuse their position.

I partly suspect this is because it seems to be the smaller sites who are reliant on the money the regular players bring in & the Marshalls tend to let them get away with cheating.

Also most of the more established/larger skirmishes mix up new players with the locals so all sides have some knowledge of the site layout and what tactics work.

 

I think that those teams/players that shout loudest about cheating & non-hit taking are the ones most likely to do it. If you are truly in a position to tell if someone is not taking hits then you are close enough to get a very good description of the player or call yourself out, walk the 20m to them, check & then go get a marshall. Job done. Do not ever shout "Take your hits", everyone will just think you are a mechant banker.

[davecymru]

I think that those teams/players that shout loudest about cheating & non-hit taking are the ones most likely to do it.

 

 

Controversial!

[The Waco Kid]

That's been my experience. I am not shy about voicing my opinions at any time but the airsoft filed is not the place for bust ups. It *fruitcage*s the game up for everyone else. If you have an issue with cheating on in the game, check & then speak to a marshall calmly.

[SilentSerpent]

this problem is really just another manifestation of 'leet airsofter' syndrome, i.e when people who have been playing the game for a few years seem to think the sport owes them something, usually in the form of gaining the right to be a cheating sod, but also the other mentioned problems such as weapons hotter than a thousand suns etc. etc.

 

as far as my experience goes, there is no real solution to these problems, as they revolve around the fundamental flaw (yes, the sport isn't perfect) of airsoft; the fact that if people want to cheat, there's very little you can do to prove it.

 

the only surefire way of humbling such ****heads is by rinsing their teeth out at 5m, but of course this is more than a bit antisocial, and also likely to get you either banned, or a firing squad.

 

we're lucky enough at Gunman Airsoft to have a core of regulars who are all decent old boys who play the game because they like the sport of it, not because they need to feel superior to anyone, but having been to other sites, i have experienced this problem, and yes, a solution really does need to be found, 'cause to put it bluntly; it sucks.

 

SS

[Kov]

I agree with The Waco 100% on this. In my years of airsoft it’s always the people that call their hits who are least likely to take hits on them. I believe that this is largely because they are so busy shouting at someone else to take their hits that they reveal their position, get lit up, and get angrier about the situation and decide “If the other guy isn’t taking his hits, I am not going to take mine.”

 

That’s why I just ignore it, and move in for a closer shot.

 

If you play on someone else’s field, make sure to mix up teams and groups of people. You get to meet new people and everyone learns the field. Then, after a few games, split into your teams and go at it. Sadly many marshals and fields have little experience in how to balance games properly, and I must say that I have had many situations where the day was ruined because of improper balance on the part of the marshals or game organizers. Another sad truth of airsoft.

[White_Rabbit]

Like SilentSerpent I too play at gunman and we have agreat bunch of regulars who take keeping the sport at a high level of play very seriously, by that I mean making sure that there is no cheating going on, making new people and visitors feel welcome. I have been to other sites where because I wasnt a regular I wasnt even talked to by others on my team and when asking locations on the site I was just told to look on the map although I had been given no map !!

 

There are so many reasons some one may not call their hits as has been said and having good fair marshalls that keep the game rolling is the key to a great day for me, if they spot someone not taking hits at gunman rather than making a big thing of it they have a quiet word while everyone else plays on, tay no one is singled out or made to feel like they are being told off more gently reminded.

[Kousnik]

At my site I don't think there is a situation like what has been raised by others.

 

Whats interesting is that a local team (GLM) were the first team to come to the site and effectivly have become the 'de facto' home team. Only recently has the site actually started to create its own 'official' team.

 

The GLM have often 'represented' Lindsey Airsoft at a number of skirmishes between other site teams in the past.

 

 

Everyone at the site has a good relationship with each other, the 2 teams that are now using the site as their home and all non team patrons mix and match in events. The team feeling whilst strong is quite loose (if that makes any sence) and if one side was comprised almost totally of a certain 'team', no one would notice, everyone (the regulars anyway) treats each other as team members anyway.

[Kousnik]

doh