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alastairthegreat

ultimate proof!

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ok if you lack a sense of humor about your religious beliefs scootle off to another thread please :)

 

 

for the rest of us enjoy:

 

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

 

my fave so far:

ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION

(1) See this bonfire?

(2) Therefore, God exists.

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ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE

(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]

(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]

(3) Therefore, God exists.

 

That's the one my parents always pull out <_<

 

"The Bible is infallable".

 

Yet it was written by a fallible creature....

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:lol:

 

ARGUMENT FROM INTELLIGENCE

(1) Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid Atheists — it's too complicated for you to understand.  God exists whether you like it or not.

(2) Therefore, God exists.

 

:rofl:

 

CALVINIST ARGUMENT, a.k.a. TERTULLIAN'S ARGUMENT

(1) If God exists, then he will let me watch you be tortured forever.

(2) I rather like that idea.

(3) Therefore, God exists.

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I love the first paragraph from the "Why Atheism?" part of that site - "If people prayed to God to stop a coin from falling, it probably still would".

 

Exclduing the obvious subjectiveness of this arguement - it's fairly obvious that if God did exist, he would have more important things on his time than to stop coins from falling, simply to prove that he exists...

 

CC

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i can see this turning bad but never the less shall say that if god made the world in 7 days im sure he has ample time to sort out poverty, george bush, politicians, jde from big brother, and even still have time to prove he exists :P

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it's fairly obvious that if God did exist, he would have more important things on his time than to stop coins from falling, simply to prove that he exists...

 

And yet even the "important" things never get touched by him/her/it.

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Yes. Without a doubt. There may be several hippos sitting around "phwoar-ing" at her, but otherwise...

 

And yet even the "important" things never get touched by him/her/it.

 

Who decides what's "important"?

 

CC

 

Edit: sounded a bit confrontational :P

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If God has a plan, he's not going to change it because you ask him to. Why would he? He knows more than you, can see everything, control everything, so everything happens because of this plan.

 

:zorro:

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Christians believe, actually, that God gave humans free will to do whatever they want - not to live by a set plan.

 

If God did have an unchanging, anal-retentive plan that controleld everything in the entire world, why would he allow people to live as non-christians? Surely he'd *make* everyone worship him?

 

 

The whole basis behind the christian belief is that free-will allows you to love God. If he *made* you "love" him, you'd be nothing more than a robot, blindly following a religion with no autonomy; and therefore, you could not choose to love him; you would be ordered to.

 

Being ordered to love something is not true love.

 

God wants a caring relationship with each one of us, and a caring relationship can only be carried out through love, so God gave use free-will to love him if we wished, or to live our lives as we wanted if we wished.

 

This way, anyone who comes to God can choose to love him, and share in the relationship that all Christians enjoy.

 

We are nothing more than mindless drones without free will.

 

CC

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Why do you think God has an unchangeable plan?

 

 

Also, if you do not dispute what I have said, then how can God have an unchangeable plan if humans have free will? For example:

 

God - "THAT DANG ELEPHANT WILL DIE ON THE 28th JUNE 2007, I WANT A NEW PET IN HEAVEN!"

Human - "I'm gonna shoot that dang elephant on the 27th June 2007, it's eating all my maize!"

 

The 27th of June 2007 comes, and the farmer shoots the elephant because he has free will.

 

God - "BUGGER!"

 

CC

 

Edit: Formatting.

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I fail to see the validity of your argument.

 

CC

 

Edit: At least try to add an argument instead of just a conclusion Pyromaster...

Edit: Speeling.

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K, but it's just what I think. Meh, I believe in a loose variation of fate.

 

Also Sledge, if we can choose to do what we want, how does that stop god from being omnopotent or omnipresent?

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Seconded - as the literal meaning of the two is:

 

Is everywhere.

Can do everything.

 

The only counterarguement I can think of is that Hell is a place, so why is God in it? My counter to that would be:

 

God created everything.

God created Lucifer.

Lucifer is in hell.

God is metaphysically in everything that he created.

Thus, God is metaphysically in hell, despite his disownment of Lucifer (similarly, God is in non-christians).

 

CC

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