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alastairthegreat

ultimate proof!

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if god exists, then why do bad things happen to good people?
Because he stopped caring and Earth is most probably laying with other old junk and gathering dust in the cosmic attic right now.

If he cared, he'd scorch all the bigots - starting from Jack Thompson and that libelous, nitwitted hack with name related to sex and poultry...I don't remember... Suck Cock? F**k Duck? Talk Turkey? Hump Goose?

Oh, yeah. Jack (off) Chick.

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I think people who try to disprove god's existence scientifically are as laughable as the people who try to prove god's existence. Science and religion are two totally different animals. Any scientist who expects to be taken seriously, knows not to touch the subject as a scientific issue. Not because of religious groups only, but because of other scientists as well. Philosophy is a different subject.

 

By definition, as I have been taught, God is incomprehensible to man. No matter how evolved our technology is, He is beyond that. So if one day the existence of God could be proven in a science lab, it would be a fake god by default.

 

Then again, if God has created everything, surely all observations by scientists are right by default? (Given that they are adopted by the majority of scientists, and there are no competing theories with even remotely equal weight.)

 

Example 1: Scientists find out that the earth goes round the sun. Well blimey, that's a fact so let's go by that! God created the earth to revolve around the sun! That's rational!

 

Example 2: Scientists find out about evolution (which is proven at certain levels, and heavily supported on other levels). Any rational christian at this point should say: "Then Evolution must have been God's way of creating all animals and plants." at least until this theory is disproved by facts. And don't say there aren't any rational christians.

 

Following the logic of these two examples, christians who dispute the evolution theory might as well say the earth is flat or the sun really goes around us. And the only proof you'll never need is "God made it look as if it weren't like that.". If you want to believe that God is messing with our heads and putting dinosaur fossiles in the ground, by all means go ahead and knock yourself out.

 

-Sale

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Because he stopped caring and Earth is most probably laying with other old junk and gathering dust in the cosmic attic right now.

If he cared, he'd scorch all the bigots - starting from Jack Thompson and that libelous, nitwitted hack with name related to sex and poultry...I don't remember... Suck Cock? F**k Duck? Talk Turkey? Hump Goose?

Oh, yeah. Jack (off) Chick.

 

Why should God be beholden to your whims?

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Religion is just another form of control, no surprise the Church was the richest organisation in the world. It's just a human compunction to want to believe in a higher being, simply because we can't stand the thought of dying.

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The devil has a lot of power. Not more than God, but the devil can get a hold on the world through people's sin; no necessarily the same person that it effects.

 

The more you sin, the closer you get to the devil, and the more power he gets on the world.

 

CC

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Religion is just another form of control, no surprise the Church was the richest organisation in the world. It's just a human compunction to want to believe in a higher being, simply because we can't stand the thought of dying.

that doesnt mean theres not a god, just that people take advantage of others using his name,i could go into detail but im afraid id bore you, but its very true religion is a form of control

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Yes - lets not confuse religion with God.

 

We've all seen "islamic" terrorists acting in the name of their God - when Islam is a mostly peaceful religion.

 

CC

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And the Qur'an was supposed to be the successor the the Bible, just how the New Testament is the successor of Old Testament.

 

I don't see how Christianity can be the true and pure religion when it is descended from Judaism and Zoroastrianism.

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Religion is just another form of control, no surprise the Church was the richest organisation in the world. It's just a human compunction to want to believe in a higher being, simply because we can't stand the thought of dying.

 

Everything's simple to you, isn't it. Everything is logical, rational, under control. Because you understand everything.

 

I find it ironic that when people look to religion for understanding, they are ridiculed by those who prefer to worship at the altar of Science, while those who look to science for understanding are rarely ridiculed. Ever. Nevermind the fact that they both serve the same purpose, never mind the fact that as it applies to ideas and actions they both use the same vocabulary: Heretic. Apostate. Suggest an idea that isn't accepted by your peers and you'll generally be laughed at by them. Suggest an idea that isn't accepted by your peers who happen to be scientists and your entire career will be ruined. Because the people you affronted were scientists, who are above us lowly mortals, who never do any wrong except in Gothic Horror. Nevermind the fact that they are driven by the same things that we all are. Lust for power, understanding, and control. They can't be wrong because they have a 'Ph.D' behind their name.

 

If Anne Coulter can get a law degree, I shudder to think what excuses of humanity can get through courses on science and technology.

 

[/rant]

 

Short version: Science and religion are both similar and different. Similar because they rely entirely on faith. They merely attempt to have different philosophical questions questions answered.

 

He would just smite the truly wicked. :P

But he either doesn't exist or doesn't care. Thissaway or otherway - doesn't work.

 

Except the wicked are God, too. :P

 

The devil has a lot of power.  Not more than God, but the devil can get a hold on the world through people's sin; no necessarily the same person that it effects.

 

The more you sin, the closer you get to the devil, and the more power he gets on the world.

 

No. Angels have no free will. Satan is an angel. Ergo, Satan is doing God's will. He is an instrument of God. Satan is our prosecutor for all our sins. Even if you take the belief that Satan does have free will (ergo that angels have free will), God is still omnipotent and you'll have to argue with the likes of Thomas Aquinas, who argued that God does not commit evils, He allows Satan, his devils, and demons to commit evil. He doesn't condone it, but He allows it. In any case, Satan has no real power except those which God has granted him.

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We're just a part of one cruel experiment in the ratcage known as the universe.

 

Science relying on faith? I don't think it's a matter of faith that DNA and cells are the building blocks of living things...

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Consider:

 

Why do we believe that? Because we believe our eyes. Because we believe our machines. Because we believe our senses. Don't forget that a thousand years ago, people believed that the four biles were responsible for everything and that everything had components of the four (or five) Elements within them. In another thousand years, people will look back on us (if there are any people) and marvel at our backwards beliefs in DNA and quarks.

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Except the fact that cells are building blocks for living things is true--if you look at them like stones in a castle, then apply that to living things...

 

What about the fact that DNA can tell you whether or not you're related to someone?

 

What about the fact that gasoline+oxygen+fire+containment=explosion?

 

Those are irrefutable.

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:rolleyes:

 

OK. Let me put it this way:

 

Science is based on faith because it's based on electrical impulses that are interpreted by your brain. There are all manner of places in there that the signal can be frakked up, lost, or invented, starting at the receptors and ending where your brain interpretes those signals. We choose to believe our eyes, ears, nose, taste, touch, even though we know that they are not always right or not always 100% right. Some people can smell things from a mile away. Some people can see things from ten miles away. Some people can feel the slightest imperfections in textiles. A high percentage of eye witnesses describe suspects incorrectly. People suffer from phantom limb syndrome.

 

It all means the same thing: We know (or at least those of us who dwell upon such things) that we have no reason to trust our senses but we do anyway. That's faith.

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Sekiryu: I suggest you get to know a certain mr. Platon and then re-read Jagdrabens posts. For all we know, we could be hooked to machines and none of the things we live are in fact real. It's like if you dream something and you could swear it's real... Do you realize it's not real before you wake up? What if we are in a dream and only dream our lives?

 

You seem to have such a strong faith in science that you don't even consider the possibility that it's wrong. I'm like-minded with you about all the observations and DNA stuff and so on. I think it's all true, so you could say my religion is science. But I admit the possibility that it could all be wrong.

 

-Sale

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For all we know, we could be hooked to machines and none of the things we live are in fact real. It's like if you dream something and you could swear it's real... Do you realize it's not real before you wake up?

 

Watch out; the Agents are coming! :ph34r:

 

This is becoming as confusing as Zen...

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