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What AM bestest Sniper Rifle!!!11one1.


thunderhammer

Shich sniperrifle do you use? (read post first)  

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  1. 1. Shich sniperrifle do you use? (read post first)

    • aps-2 or variant
      37
    • type 96
      105
    • tanaka aics
      51
    • tanaka m700
      56
    • vsr 10 (or variant)
      265
    • kj m700
      19
    • something else, what?
      101


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ok, i have been doing a lot of research trying to find a new sniper rifle. i currently have a g-spec upgraded with laylax cylinder head, spring guide rod, sears, piston, 303mm X 6.03mm inner barrel, stock collar, barrel spacers, and scope. i will have to sell my g-spec when i move due to import laws, but i can take most of the internals with me. so i have narrowed it down to these options:

 

bring most of the g-spec internals with me, buy a new g-spec there along with zero trigger unit, 170 spring, and 303 X 6.02mm inner barrel. then install all the good stuff in the new g-spec, bring everything else back and install it in the old g-spec and sell that.

 

or,

 

sell my g-spec, and use the money to buy a tanaka m40a1 upgraded with marui hopup chamber, .01 inner barrel, g&g outer barrel, qd silencer, scope, and possibly bipod.

 

either option will result in a rifle firing just below my new site limits. either option will cost me roughly $200 extra (over what i make from selling the g-spec).

 

the only difference is this:

 

g-spec = more consistent fps, and will work in the cold (i will be living in a desert, so even at night it will average only around 60 degrees fahrenheit, but still nice to know that if i have a game on a strangely cold night it will work)

 

m40a1 = more accurate, better range, quieter, really nice action.

 

anyway, i have spent a lot of time trying to make a decision, but cannot. so i am looking to you guys for help and/or suggestions :)

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How on earth have you arrived at the conclusion that a Ta,,,,,,,,Ta,,,,,ta,,,,,,oh god I can't even bring myself to say it...................One of those guns is more accurate than a vsr?? :D

 

They are claimed to be out there, but I've never seen or fired a Ta...............na............ka that is more accurate than either of my vsrs.

 

I even owned & spent a fortune on one myself once upon a time & while I will happily agree that it was quieter, a nicer action better quality feel etc. it was no where near as accurate.

 

If you are fed up with owning a performance rifle & are happy to trade it for one that just looks feels & sounds nice, then be my guest. But I'll be amazed if you post that it's as accurate as the vsr.

 

If it is, it's either a miracle or your vsr is seriously poop!!

 

 

Greg.

 

PS. Please don't post about your narka 'cos I'm not trying to upset anyone. If you really do have one that consistently gives 8" groups @ 70m (whatever the weather)pm me with the details. I'll travel anywhere to see it for real. But you pay the travel costs if I get there & it don't!!

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ah, wow... lol. ok... well from what i have read about the tanaka's, they are pretty consistent for gas rifles (vary by about 27fps in good weather judging by what i have read) so i figured that with a .01 barrel that is almost 26" long it can get better accuracy than a g-spec varying by about 7fps with only a .03 barrel that is only 12" long.

 

am i wrong? how can a tanaka have less accuracy given the above conditions? (note, they will be using the same hopup rubbers even as i would get the pax hopup unit)

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because the spring is more consistent.

 

Like I said in my PM to you, the action of the TANAKA is sweet, they are good for medium distances, but if you're after consistency at long to extreme ranges then the VSR is the way to go (and I love my Tanakas).

 

This may change with a decent regulated CO2 HPA system, but I have yet to sit down long enough to sort mine out.

 

I am a huge fan of Tanaka's as Greg will confirm (we've argued the toss until the cows come home) but when it comes to the crunch, I still use my VSR most of the time.

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well i remember you saying that chef (as helpfull as your info was for increasing my knowledge, it only confused me more as to which rifle i want :P) , but you were using a stock barrel and bgs hop rite? with a .01 and pax unit i was thinking that the accuracy in terms of horizontal spread would be at least equal to that of a g-spec if not better due to the greater barrel length and tighter barrel. why isnt this the case? the fps inconsistency would only cause vertical inaccuracy no?

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I can only concer with The Chef on this i spent £100s on my aics and it still didnt cut the mustard , by g-spec has a 150 running down a 430mm 6.01 inner barrel and its deadly to around 75 metres

 

 

But what i will say after receiving my Starr 338. you might be very very supprised about gas rifles Chef ;) Its so much more than the AICS was

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without using your exact set-up scithe I cant really say for sure. Its just based on my current information I would choose the VSR.

 

You seem pretty set on getting a tanaka, and if thats the case then go for it. Just dont get it all hyped up in your mind, just in case it falls short of your expectations. Its certainly a difficult choice, but in the long run, its one you can change. You know how well the VSR can perform, it might be refreshing to to try something new.

You would certainly have to adapt your style of play because they are two very different beasts.

 

Docs.... I am taking the plung with a 338, I was waiting for a decent review but am getting fed up with the lack of one, so I am going to get one blind and do a review myself. Hopefully it gives me a pleasant surprise.

 

editted because of my gash notebook keyboard.

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Ok Chef a little write up i did for a friend today

 

Ok steve . this should help you out , temp in the warehouse at work is a chilly 5 oC

 

I have just set the hop and banged some .28s in the 338 and scoped it in to 41 metres , i got after 7 shots on green a 4 inch group at 41 metres

 

I took it out to 55 metres and had a 9 inch square target ( lamp in the yard ) all 10 rounds hit hard against the lamp , then out to 80 metres ,now add ther temp and distance and the fact that the hop is yet to bed in i was able to hit the same tree time after time ,all this on green and .28s at just under 500 fps ,

 

My only concern is that as the temp rises the green will be to much , i will have to do a few tests after warming the mag to say 25oC and the effects of abbey ultra ,green and 134a

 

 

 

Now i will say with the tanaka everyshop even with the bgs setup was a little differnt and after 3-5 rounds straight after each other the gas cooldown effect was very noticable ,but like i quote at 5 oC there was no sign of gas cooldown i aimed i fired i hit simple ,a nice staright flight of the bb with just a small lift towards the end of the flight

 

 

http://s203.photobucket.com/albums/aa52/do...nt=IMAG0140.jpg

 

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Have to agree with the 'Star' observations.

 

I had about 200 shots during a half hour range session at about 21 degrees. No Chrono, Guarder HPM .28's.

 

I was so impressed I nearly bought one. It definitely trumps the nark & comes very close to the vsr: 8" groups at 50m shot after shot. Unfortunately the range was only 50m, so I don't know how good after that, & with no chrono I can't confirm what the fps was on the green we were using.

 

The gun was unmodified & had been skirmished with over 2000 shots everything was bedded.

 

If I can do more shooting with one over longer distances & fit a silencer I may have to add a 338 to the collection...............but only if it can keep up with the vissers.

 

Re why narks don't cut it?? Well, firstly size ain't everything: I'm sure you've read my observations re the 555mm vs 430mm vsr barrel. Secondly, as already pointed out, fps consistency. My vsr's chrono within 1fps every shot, where as narkers can vary enormously from shot to shot, even more than an aeg on semi! I think I remember target shooting at 60m with a well sorted semi aeg around 420 fps (through a chrono). At that range a 10 fps drop gave a 1m bb drop!

 

I really wish gassers would get as accurate as springers. The action & potential for silencing is far superior to springers. Narkers feel sooooooooooo good.

 

Scithe, If you are interested, pm me & I'll send you exact details of both my vsrs so you can do the same. Both give 8" groups at 70m......Whatever the weather. :P

 

 

Greg.

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pm'd! :)

 

as for the added barrel length not always being better though, this is true for springers if the volume of air in the cylinder is not enough to fill the length of the barrel. as a result, once the bb is moving down the barrel with no air behind it, things will only get worse.

 

when it comes to gas rifles though, since the gas is expanding it can easilly fill the barrel (especially with the amount of gas output in the tanaka rifles) so the longer the barrel, the more fps and accuracy you can get.

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I would agree that as a result you get more fps & therefore a perceived improvement in accuracy. But if the fps remained the same, I personally believe that there is an 'optimum' barrel length (to save repeating, feel free to search) beyond which there is no advantage. I also think that this 'optimum length' is application specific, so what maybe best in a 500fps springer may not be best for a 328 aeg.

 

 

Greg.

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first of all, dont worry, i have read many of the threads about this subject aswell as reading up on its effect in the real steal world. i agree with most of what you are saying, and i agree that there is "optimum accuracy" but i think that with a longer barrel (as long as it is not longer than the particular rifle can handle) the accuracy at LONGER ranges will increase.

 

anyway, after doing some more thinking, searching, and annoying the heck out of many of the good folks here on arnies, i decided that my best option may be to build a sort of stealth rifle. here it is:

 

tanaka m40a1 (as i think it was chef who pointed it out, i really want it no matter how bad it performs :P)

pax hopup unit with stock marui hop or 9 ball purple hop

sling

small scope

G&G outer barrel (short type)

extra mag

ics silencer

400/450mm X 6.01mm inner barrel

134a gas

#### good sidearm

lots and lots of practice :P

 

now, the reason i chose this and not a higher fps setup (which i would have used a g-spec for) is because to be honest, the digicon bb's are not very good at all, and i dont trust the stability of anything lighter than a .36g in a high fps sniper rifle, so even if i had a rifle that was perfectly consistent and accurate, i would have no ammo to use with it that i could trust.

 

however, at low to medium sniper rifle velocities the .29g is a dream, and i have been able to hit head sized targets at ~150ft with my g-spec.

 

anyway, this is my plan so far. you guys have been saying that the tanaka's performance is pretty iffy at longer ranges, but with the above setup do you think it would be accurate out to 150ft?

 

o, here is a quick drawing i just made of what it will look like without the scope and sling... the pic is roughly to scale:

 

lenox1.jpg

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Ah, this is almost exactly what I want! Can someone give details as to exactly how long the G&G short outer barrel is, what inner barrel corresponds to that, and what threaded end caps will fit?

 

I'm assuming this one:

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproductdetails.asp?prodid=4671

but how well will it work in conjunction with a VSR inner and the G&G outer? Also, what is that extra ring around the outer barrel for?

I think UNCo calls it an SR15 adapter... Does that mean that any suppressors designed to lock onto an SR15 (same as M4/16, not SPR, right?) flash hider will work on this as well?

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproductdetails.asp?prodid=3257

This also means that the adapter is not necessary, correct?

I could just attach a one-touch silencer like this one:

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproductdetails.asp?prodid=6243

 

Exactly how long is the outer barrel past the SR15 adapter? IE, what length of silencer can be fitted? I'd like it as short as possible while still being fully functional.

The SR25 silencer mounts exactly the same way, right?

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproductdetails.asp?prodid=9198

I figure it would probably be better, since it won't have any 5.56 markings.

 

It also says M700 Police only, but why wouldn't it work on other M700 models (outside of the AICS at least)?

 

 

*and I just noticed how out of place this was in this thread... Seeing scithe's plan just got me all excited about my own :P

If a mod could move this post into my other thread please.

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lol, wow. well, do i hear joint project? :P

 

you seem to have a pretty good feel for what the g&g outer barrel is like, i too am curious as to the inner barrel length and end cap required for this barrel. this outer barrel will apparently fit just fine on an m40a1. you can read up a little bit on askuc. there is a "tanaka m700 disassembly" thread or something like that.

 

i did some rough estimates from what i could see with the pictures i have found of the barrel. from what i can tell, the silencer adapter is about 175mm from the end. the outer barrel seems to be about 3X longer than the section from the silencer adapter to the tip. this would make the entire thing about 20" long. this is a very rough estimate, so if anyone knows anything more, please let us know :)

 

what i do know is that the silencer you are looking at is 294mm long (as shown on airsoftwar4) and the ics silencer is 175mm long.

 

as for the inner barrel length, that gets a bit tricky. keep in mind it must be marui compatible, and that because the pax unit actually begins further inside the outer barrel than the stock unit, you will have to have the barrel a certain amount shorter than normal (i think it was 6mm, but im not sure. 8zero8 will know more)

 

anyway, thats all i know really...

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ok, well i spent a lot of time looking on the net, but was unable to find anything regarding the measurements of the g&g outer barrel. i spent some time looking at and comparing pictures and created a diagram to show the different parts and there measurements (i am not sure how accurate it is though, so if someone could confirm any of it then that would be great.

 

g&g outer barrel length (short type, the stndrd type is 588mm long) - 435mm

ics silencer (aswell as most qd silencers) - 175mm

long type silencer - 294mm

point from where silencer mounts until the end of the barrel - 124.5

 

this means that the ics silencer (and others like it) will protrude by about 2" which should be just enough to suppress the rifle effectively if you use a baffle system. the longer type silencer will protrude by about 6.7" from the end of the barrel which is more than enough room to quiet the rifle. the thing is though, is that with the longer silencer on the shorter barrel, it will actually be about an inch and a half longer than a standard m40a1.

 

i have more measurements for more parts if anyone needs (now that i have the base measurements it should not be hard to figure out the approximate dimensions of any part)

 

i made some pics to give a vague idea of how the rifle will look, they are not the best since it is 3am here, but they are to scale which is good.

 

tanaka.jpg

 

anyway, hope this helped. if anyone has any more info please share :)

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Another addition:

 

9. AGM MP002 L96.

 

24801023639.jpg

 

The AGM L96 is AGM's second foray into the spring sniper rifle market. It's basically the MP001 with a longer cylinder in an L96 AW stock, much like the AICS. It's very cheap, costing typically 80-100 dollars, and chronos in at around 440 fps with .2g bb's. The trigger mech is a VSR-10 clone, and fits VSR-10 aftermarket sears. The cylinder is an APS-2 Type 96 clone, and is longer than the MP001 cylinder. The hopup and barrel are identical to the MP001 In other words, the hopup isn't upgradeable, and it only fits dbcustom, EdGI, or modified Madbull barrels. Stock accuracy isn't very good, as it has a wide inner barrel. The finish is pretty good, but not as good as the WELL MB01. Heft is very good, as it has weights glued into the stock. The major advantage to this rifle is that it's cheap, has very good stock power for a very light bolt-pull, and is a solid gun if you install a tightbore. The U-hop is a major drawback, as is the APS-10/96 style upgradeability (VSR-10 trigger/APS96 cylinder). It's a good budget rifle, and would make a good starter sniper rifle, but I would recommend the WELL over this gun for budget owners seeking a more competitive gun.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/asgar/web/s...s--new-releases

 

 

WELL MB03 review to come.

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  • 2 months later...

i would recommend the soc-16/m14 scout for this as it doesnt really lose accuracy or range over the standard length m14, and it is of course easier to wield. the thing is though, is that i would not recommend this as a sniper rifle unless you have previous experience as a sniper. the reason for this is that is that with a semi/full auto weapon you will have the ability and therefore the urge to pull the trigger more often and more rapidly than you should, thus giving away your position. if you have really good trigger control and patience (and dont mind people saying you are not a true sniper) then this could be an option for you. i would recommend obviously getting some low or mid-cap mags and trying to muffle the gearbox as much as possible in order to keep from being noticed. also keep in mind that a semi/full auto weapon may run into some problems as a sniper rifle because you will either have to keep it as a fairly low fps sniper rifle, or run into complications with your fields rules on things like this.

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Yeah, i like the idea of having a versatile AEG, meaning i cud use this close range assault rifle without an issue of having cocking for every shot, and use in some kind of sniping roll.

 

Im looking at a number of options, JG BAR 10, AGM M14, TM M14.

 

Between the 2 M14's how far would you say the gap is with reliability over price?

 

 

 

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