infected
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Intro
KWA has been kind enough to send us their new Adaptive Training Pistol (ATP) for review. For those of you new to the scene we'll provide a history lesson, so sit down face forward and listen up.
Around 2009, Glock decided that it needed to protect it IP's including the trademarked design and appearance of the Glock firearm. This was extended to everything from artistic representation to manufacturing products similar in appearance. For the airsoft world, this was the begining of the end for the Glock replica. For a while some manufacturers changed their model numbers and swapped the Glock trademarks on the guns for terms such as "G-series". Glock continued their legal action stating that the replica Glocks (or G-series, etc.) were infrining on their intellectual property (the Glock form factor and appearance). This lead to all the major airsoft manufacturers to turn away from making Glock replicas all together. A void appeared in the training market and professionals who use the Glock were left without a suitible airsoft training pistol. KWA acknowledged this void and started designing what has become the ATP. The ATP functions similar to the generation four Glock in that it simulates a striker fired pistol with interchangeable grips and no manual safety. The ATP has also been built to fit holsters built for Glock firearms as well. Now the question stands, how well does this gun fit the void made by the missing Glock replica?
First Impressions
The box is the usual KWA affair. Black and grey outside, styrofoam packed gun, lube, bb sachet, warranty, sticker, hop key, and magazine. Unique to this gun is the interchangable grip which is packed with the other accessories. Things that stood out: threaded orange barrel tip, Glock style take down, absence of "safe action" trigger.
Materials and Construction
The ATP uses a polymer frame with a metal slide. The front and rear sights are plastic with the usual white 3 dot setup. The dots appear crisp and bright. Both the front and rear sight are held in their dovetails by friction only.
The barrel assembly is metal from the chamber to the threaded tip, with the threaded tip being bright orange and plastic. However, no airsoft mock suppressor will fit this tip that we know of.
The spring guide is plastic with a single captive spring.
The polymer frame houses the metal components that have been largely borrowed from the previous KWA Glock 17.
The magazine is metal with a locking follower for loading. This mag shares the same "body" as earlier KWA Glocks however they have changed the baseplate to be much larger.
All in all the internals and overall materals are the same as the original KWA Glock 17.
Features
Not much to it. You've got a polymer framed pistol with a 3 dot sighting system and a 23+1 capacity. As expected the gun features a short rail up front for mounting a laser or a light. The only unique feature is the addition of the interchangeable backstrap. The gun includes 1 smaller backstrap, while out of the box being equipped with the larger one. This is similar to the design of the new generation four Glock's. One other "feature" is the ability to fit Glock compatible holsters.
The hop unit is the same as seen on other KWA pistols.
One feature I would have liked to see (that is available on the gen 4 Glocks) is a reversable mag release (for lefties).
Performance
When we're looking at the mechanics of the gun, there was one thing that caught my eye. The new baseplate on the magazine is deep enough that it requires being removed (at least partially) before filling the it with Green Gas. Yet another reason to use propane instead. The Airsoft Innovations propane adapter has a nozzle long enough that you can fill the mag without having to adjust the baseplate.
When you're talking performance, we are usually concerned with 3 things: range, accuracy, and fps. To test the average FPS of the gun we first noted the mag was warmed up to 84.7*F and the room's ambient temperature is 78*F. We warmed the mag to better simulate summer play characteristics. For all testing we used propane.
Click Here for Spreadsheet Data
As you can see from the charts above we have a maximum deviation of about 28 fps from the lowest speed shot to the highest. That’s a pretty wide margin even for a gas gun. Even if we toss out the highest and lowest reading we still have a maximum deviation of about 19 fps. Looking at the standard deviation we find the gun shoots almost +/-7FPS from the average velocity of 329 FPS. What we did note from the chart is that while there is likely some “cool down” of the mag causing a drop in fps, it isn’t much. We did wait about 1-2 seconds between shots for this test. We have also provided the same information in the form of muzzle energy (measured in Joules), for you technical junkies out there.
Moving on to accuracy we placed a target at 30 feet from the shooter. Unfortuantely we did not have a bench to shoot from today, so everything was shot standing and unsupported. We understand that this is going to add a fair margin of error into the results. Luckily the wind was a weak 2mph and was heading down range improving our results.
Our target showed a tight 1.5” group for our first 10 shots that center about 1” @ 10 o’clock from the bullseye. After that shots drifted left for the next 5 shots. Could this be shooter error, or possibly wind? After a little diagnosis we found that the rear sight was loose. In fact, it’s held in just by friction and had slid to the side while shooting. There is not a screw or adhesive used to hold the sight in place and it is easily removed from the gun with a gentle push. The gun seems to be accurate as long as the sight is secured in place. I would suggest putting a small drop of blue loctite under the rear sight and then sliding it in place to secure it.
Performance goes beyond just the accuracy of the gun and it’s muzzle velocity capabilities. There is also range to consider. I figured that the large variations in fps would contribute to decreasing range under rapid fire conditions if the cause was "cooldown". With a full mag of .20g Golden Ball bbs we noted over 150 feet of travel no problem through a full mag dump. I suspect that the hop unit itself is most likely the cause of the variations in fps, but at the same time it does an excellent job at providing range. We did some testing with .4g bbs just for kicks and found that the hop unit did a phenomenal job at giving both a flat trajectory and plenty of range. Much like my KWA USP, this gun can reach out surprisingly far with the right ammo choice.
One thing I was hoping to see was a very fast slide speed. The Glock series was great in part because the slide was fairly light allowing for very fast follow up shots. The ATP isn’t quite as fast as the previous Glock replicas, but was more than adequate and easily tops my KWA USP.
Conclusion
The overall build of the ATP is pretty solid. The slide moves smoothly, and we did not have any major hiccups during the testing of the gun. The issue of the rear sight being loose is easily remedied with a bit of blue Loctite. Given that most airsofters will be using this for CQB or as a last resort backup the accuracy and range are more than adequate.
As a training pistol I think this gun is as close as we’re going to get to a Glock for a while to come. With the ability to fit holsters built for Glocks, as well as featuring interchangeable grip panels, and have a similar contour to the grip that generation 4 Glocks have, I think this would work well as a training tool. For those of you just looking for a quality airsoft gas blow back pistol, I feel that this gun is a solid buy. KWA has a 45 day warranty, and their build quality is usually pretty good, and from what retailers are telling me, they've seen very few issues requiring them to swap out the gun since the debut of the ATP up to the time of writing this review.
The Numbers
Construction 7/10 -- Issues like the rear sight sliding in its dovetail should not have happened and I have to ding this gun because of that. The requirement to slide the baseplate out of the way to fill the mag with green gas is also inconvenient.
Features 10/10 -- Fitting Glock compatible holsters is a big plus.
Durability 8/10 -- I would have liked to see a stronger spring guide.
Performance 8/10 -- The FPS varied a bit more than I would have expected out of a PTP series gun. Otherwise everything was spot on.
Value 10/10 -- For an airsoft pistol this is right in the sweet spot on pricing. Not to expensive of an initial investment and mags are about $30 each.
Price -- $129.99 as of 10/6/11
Links
For more quality reviews check us out at Infected Airsoft (the official blog of Infected Armory).
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Arnie, you still need someone to do that? Just PM me and we'll sort out the details.
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Still getting that error. Every once in a while I can preview a topic before posting, but then I hit the post button and it fails.
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It's weird, I can sometimes post, but most of the time Chrome says "data not sent" or "server disconnected", and I've tried with Internet explorer and it just sits there and looks at me dumb. Also, I can't always get the "preview post" to work either.
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I'm having issues posting most anywhere on the forums.
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Ah, I see. Dang it.
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Ah, and there it is. If something is Licensed by Umarex, then that would be why it has all the features and trades. I'm running the KP45, not the Tactical (which is the Umarex version I believe).
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Odd. My old one didn't have a key, and my new one doesnt. Talked with Allizard and he said that they did not put the key or the key cylinder in them as it is a patent held by H&K. Now if you have a KSC or Umarex model that has official trades, then I could see having the key lock.
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my KWA match has the trigger lock holes.
Is it just a hole where the trigger lock is supposed to be, or an actual keyed cylinder that is supposed to be there? Just think it's curious if some have it and some don't. Do you have a pic of it?
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does it actually have the trigger lock? Mine has the spot for it, but the circular bit with the square drive key hole is not there. It's just a circular hole where the lock should be.
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Intro
Several years ago Infected Armory reviewed the KWA USP .45 as one of its first reviews. Today we are taking a look at the revised KWA KP45 with the NS2 system that KWA USA has been kind enough to provide us with. Through out this review we will compare it to the original USP that was released several years ago and see how it stacks up. While that review was done in the infancy of Infected Airsoft, and as such was not quiet as methodical or in-depth, we can still draw some clear conclusions as we look at the new KWA KP45.
First Impressions
KWA's packaging has always been business. Nothing too flashy, just simple clean and functional yet still sharp. The usual items were packed in the box: gun, mag, manual, sticker, bag of bbs, hop up adjustment key, and a vial of silicone oil. I did notice that this time around the gun did not include a tube and rod for loading bbs into the mag. That would suggest that there has been a change in the mag design. One thing to note, is that yet again they include a very heavy weight silicone oil. I would venture to say it's about 80 weight silicone oil. Personally I feel that's way to thick for airsoft use. Either go light weight (10 weight for rotating parts, and valves), or go with a grease for sliding parts such as, well, the slide.Materials and Construction
Overall the externals, for the most part, look the same on the updated NS2 version as they should. Ridged polymer frame with a metal slide. Serial number located forward of the trigger guard along the underside of the gun. Texturing is the same. The slide is now engraved with the KWA logo and the model number KP45 as well as "cal. 6mm". While not true trademarks, they are at least tastefully done. The safety is still clearly marked in white and red, safe and fire respectively. I did notice that the first generation of this gun had a hammer lock in the mag well (like the actual H&K USP), but this version does not. Not a big deal as the first version didn't come with a key to make the hammer lock worth using (not that any airsofter would bother).
Moving onto the slide the first thing we notice is that KWA has switched from having a metal outer barrel to a plastic one. Now if that was the slide I could argue that it was done to reduce weight and increase efficiency, but such is not the case. I do not know why they made the switch, and wish they had not. It's a bummer as the outer barrel that I polished on my previous one really helped set it apart. Also, KWA's website does not show that the barrel now extends about 6mm outside of the slide. The previous version had the front of the slide painted blaze orange (to meet federal requirements), but the barrel – like the real firearm equivalent – did not extend past the slide. The fit of the slide is a bit loose, but no looser than any other airsoft gun. The tolerances in Airsoft are just not as tight as they are with real firearms. At the same time, the slide does rattle a bit if you shake the gun about, and I would expect the tolerances to be a bit tighter than that. KWA's tolerances are amazingly tight on their AEG line, so I would have expected that to translate to their GBB line, but such is not the case.Moving to the internals of the frame we find that nothing has really changed from outward appearances. The slide on the other hand shows some differences on the inside in comparison to the previous versions. First we have the new spring guide. While it's still a captive 2 spring system, they've changed the design which I hope has increased the strength. On my previous generation 1 USP, I broke 2 spring guides with the only upgrade being a tightbore barrel. I hope this version fares better, but the point at which the previous spring guide broke still uses the same design. The movement of the spring bushing over the spring guide still does not seem as slick as I'd expect it to be even though the spring guide seems to be polished well, and there are no visible burrs on the bushing in front of the spring. The generation 1 shared this problem. With the slide removed from the gun we also note that the rear sight wobbles a bit. Normally this is resolved by tightening the screw that holds the blowback unit in place. Unfortunately this did not solve the problem. There appears to be too much slack between the cut for the rear sight and the sight itself. While it's not enough wiggle to cause you to miss your target within an acceptable engagement distance, guys looking for a show gun or who are meticulous about detail will take note. The slide itself seems to be made of pretty durable metal (most likely aluminum), and should take a beating quite well.
At first glance the mag looks identical to the generation 1 mag. The first version of the generation 1 magazine did not have an o-ring on the fill valve, where this one (and the second version of the first generation) do. The back of the mag also has the fake loaded round count indicators, but as we move around to the front of the mag we see a difference. The previous generation had a different design for the feed lips, and the mag did not used to have a follower with retention. The added retention allows you to pull the follower all the way down and then load the bbs. Personally I don't care for this as it makes it easy to have a gap between bbs. Keeping tension on the bbs as they are loaded prevented this. Of course because of the design of the feed lips you can't use the standard pistol loader adapter, thus the need for the retention on the follower. All that said, the magazine is machined from one solid piece of aluminum, and therefore pretty tough. I did notice however that they are using the same design for the seal at the bottom of the mag. That was flawed in the previous USP as every mag I had developed leaks. While they were easily fixed with some silicone RTV, you shouldn't have to.
Overall the gun with mag and a full 25+1 rounds of .20g bbs and propane weighs in at 865g (approx 1.9 lbs).
Features
The gun holds 25+1 rounds. Great for people who play CQB and primarily use a pistol.
KWA spec sheet shows the fps to be 310+ fps. That is a noticeable improvement over the previous 290-300 fps I had with the previous model.
The safety has a functioning decocker.
Performance
Okay, 1100+/- words later we are at the heart of the review, performance. In an effort to be methodical and scientific we arranged for a few tests that would show what this gun could do. Now, any comparisons with the previous generation are going to have to come from my experience and previous review as I do not have the same level of data to go by.
First things first, we load up the mag. Now this again is one of my personal gripes, but you either love it or hate it. The mag follower with retention is difficult to use. If you don't have decently strong finger nails then it's a pain to get a grip on to push the follower to the bottom. The catch for the mag release makes this doubly hard as it pushes your finger away from the follower possibly making you let go of the follower and forcing you to start all over again. The spring also tends to bind a bit in the mag. A very light application of some SuperLube Grease (not oil) to the follower and spring make the movement of the spring and follower much smoother, but does not fix the problem completely.
With the mag loaded with .2g bbs and full of propane we head out to the range to chrono the gun. The mag was gassed up indoors at about 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and left to sit for 15 minutes before testing. Firing was done with a pause between shots to prevent excessive cool down that would affect the data. With an ambient temperature of 91.7 degrees Fahrenheit the gun averaged 333.4 fps over the course of the 25 rounds in the mag. That is well above the spec sheet's 310 fps, and well above the 285-290 that I would get on a warm day out of the previous generation USP. So far so good.
For the next test we wanted to look at cool down over the course of a mag. Now the ambient temperature had risen to 92.7 degrees Fahrenheit. For this test we took five shots rapidly, and then chrono'd the 6th shot. Our results showed the fps readings on the 6th shot of each round to be 333.1, 331.7, 332.5, 332.3 fps. That give us an average of 331.9 fps, and a fluctuation of only 1.4 fps. That's pretty spectacular on a gas gun under rapid fire conditions. The gun showed very little if any negative influence from cool-down.
Next up is the efficiency testing. Whenever I build a gun or buy I gun I test efficiency to see what weight bb is the best to use in that particular gun. FPS, hop system, and barrel length all effect this but in gas blow backs there's even more going on with the reduced efficiency created by the blow back mechanism and slide cycling. All testing was done with the ambient air temp between 91.7-92.7 degrees, and the mag refilled with propane between each swap in bb weight. All measurements were taken with the same Xcortech chronograph which also handled the conversion to Joules for efficiency testing. We tested .20g, .25g, .28g, .30g, .36g, and .40g bbs. Given the consistency of the gun we were felt that 5 shots with each weight bb was a large enough sample from which to draw a conclusion. The LEAST efficient bb turned out to be .20g bbs. The most efficient bbs were actually .40g bbs. This is pretty surprising as at the 350 fps level in AEG's you would find .25 or .28g bbs to be the most efficient. We double checked our findings and continued to get the same readings. My best guess is that with a .40g load it takes longer for the bb to clear the barrel and thus the valve in the blow back unit stays open longer as does the valve on the mag because it takes slightly longer for the slide to start cycling back. Following that theory I would venture to guess that the efficiency would increase to a point as the bb weight went up. The trend showed to hold for the most part. The following averages were recorded: .25g – 1.22joules; .28g – 1.32joules; .30g – 1.34 joules; .36g – 1.35 joules; .40g – 1.41 joules.
So if my theory is correct, the efficiency rated as number of shots per propane fill should be lowest with .40g bbs and highest with .20g bbs. Back to the range and we were not totally surprised, but somewhat intrigued by our finding. We filled the mag with gas completely before each weight was tested, and fired slow controlled shots. With the .20g bbs we were able to fire 64 fully cycled shots before the mag ran out of pressure and was unable to cycle the system. We were astounded when the USP cycled a full 61 rounds of .40g bbs before being unable to cycle further! Three round shy of the .20g bbs, with higher muzzle energy; the only thing left is to test the range.
So far we've been amazed by the fps and efficiency of the KWA KP45 NS2, so what would range and accuracy show us? We hit the range again using .36g Madbull bbs and set up targets at 20, 30, 45 feet. Each shot was taken from a supported position at a 1 inch grid on a target holder. We achieved groupings of 2.14″@20ft, 2.6″@30ft, and 3.64″@45ft. This gun is plenty accurate within typical engagement distances that you would use a pistol. Now comes the obligatory distance testing. Now, keep in mind that this is a pistol with a short barrel length when put in comparison to bolt actions or even most AEG's. If the pistol manages 80 feet of level flight I would consider that superb. We loaded up .20g bbs and headed back out to the range. Our range is measured out to 160feet, and extends as far as 200 (but has no markers after 160 ft). The .20g bbs proved useless for long distance accuracy. The gun's high fps and soft hop rubber make the bbs rise significantly after about 65 feet. For kicks and giggles we tossed in .40g bbs as more of a joke than anything. We quickly found ourselves looking for our jaw somewhere on the ground around our ankles. The bb flew well past the 160 foot mark with very level trajectory… and the hop wasn't even all the way up! Wow. I found myself very impressed. We repeated the test with several other weights and found .30g and higher weights to be optimal, and with time to aim and fire this gun is very formidable at over 150 feet! Amazing. I don't recall the old KWA USP getting anywhere near that distance with level flight and with that weight of bb.
Conclusion
Over the course of the review I found myself reminded of a few things that seem to haunt this gun from the previous generation. First is the slow cycle speed of the slide. The slide itself is pretty heavy, and the compound spring guide hinders the cycling speed even further. The slightly loose rear sight also is a reminder of the generation 1 KWA USP/KP8/KP45. The switch from a metal outer barrel to a plastic one is a bit disappointing as well.Looking at the performance, this pistol is a dream and very much redemption for the previously mentioned shortcomings. The high velocity (330-340 fps) coupled with a hop unit that has the capability to fling .40g bbs over 160 feet is amazing. The accuracy is excellent, and the efficiency is down right amazing. If you're currently running a generation 1 KWA KP8 and you're considering upgrading to a new pistol… then you're only going to love this one more and more. The new USP is every bit as accurate as the old and even more so at longer ranges. Snipers out there in need of a backup weapon… take note of all this gun has to offer.
If you're not hung up on accurate trademarks and are looking for a solid sidearm or even a primary CQB weapon, then this is an excellent choice. It clearly is as solid as it's predecessor, and even more powerful. In comparison to the previous generation it takes what was a solid GBB pistol and turns it up a notch.
The Numbers
Construction 7/10 — The only dings are really nitpicking. I am disappointed in the switch to a plastic outer barrel and I was hoping to see the whole design of the spring guide revisited. While the end of the spring guide was modified, the weak point in the middle was not changed.
Features 10/10 — It's a GBB, there really aren't too many features to speak of.
Durability 8/10 — Overall the design is great. It really is mostly a copy of the previous design with some slight changes to the spring guide as well as the valve in the blowback chamber.
Performance 10/10 — Accuracy, fps, and range are all above average; with the range being phenomenal.
Value 10/10 At $145 retail price the it's a great balance of performance and durability.
Price — $145 as of 8/18/2010
Links
For more reviews please check out:
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should any specific hop rubber be used, or anything goes ?
Most things should fit, the prometheus soft works awesome.
what type of motor is in this ? (size wise i mean)
Medium. Not many choices for a replacement.
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a] Users cannot install patches to the forum, Arnie would have to install that.
I posted it so Marlowe would see it, as I know that a user can't install it.
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Here's the solution to the problem. It's an issue with the Rich Text Editor used by IP.Board
http://community.invisionpower.com/topic/3...or-ipboard-236/
The patch in the link above will fix the problem globally.
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Not sure if this really counts as gear but, its my dump pouch It works really well, a great alternative to a dump pouch
I used to use a carabiner to hold my first mag. I'd have all my pouches loaded up, and a carabiner with one extra mag loaded up. When we went out into the field I'd put that mag into my gun so as to not be down a mag at the beginning of a game.
As far as using it as a dump pouch... all that rattling would get on my nerves!
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Anyone know where I can find pics of the internals of this gun?
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I guess I should have been more specific... what pouch would you use for short mags?
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Hum... I might have to pick one of these up to
torturereview. -
What are you guys using for mag pouches? The mag seem to be a bit of an awkward size.
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Many of you have had a chance to read my Lithium Polymer Battery Primer, and have made the exciting dive into the world of lipo batteries. I'm excited to see that there is a movement among manufacturers to embrace these somewhat new battery chemistries and dispel the "black magic-voodoo" mentality that surrounds them. With the ushering in of users new to the world of lipoly batteries, comes the fear of destroying a new battery, and possibly a gun due to running the voltage low on your pack. Since lipoly batteries have a lower limit of 2.8v (with 3.0v being the lowest you really ever want to go), you do need to be cautious not to waste your brand new battery pack. Several people have gone to Ebay and such places in search of products to keep their lipo in the safe operating range (3.0-4.2v per cell). Most of these products were never intended for Airsoft use, and as such fail. Most of them can't cope with the sudden drops in voltage and cause false alarms. Others are just made of poor materials and workmanship. To the rescue comes Wolfdragon and his "Over-Discharge Protection Circuit Boards for Lithium Polymer (LiPO) Battery Packs". These come in two varieties, and today we'll be testing out the "Lite PCB". The largest difference between the "Lite" model and the regular is the ability to cut power from the battery in a low voltage state (i.e. the battery is at the 3.0v lower limit). While the "Lite" model does not cut off power from your battery to the gun, it will notify you via LED or buzzer when you reach that lower limit, but the user must then disconnect the battery himself/herself.First Impression
I am very impressed with the kit. Unfortunately I was so excited I didn't take a picture of how everything comes in the mail. Included with the kit is the PCB itself, the buzzer, heat shrink, label (complete with serial number and version number), instructions, and appropriate balance connectors and enough wire to place it at either end of your gun. Overall I must say it is a very complete kit. The instructions seem pretty easy to follow and are well laid out. .
Materials and Construction
The balance connectors are excellent quality, and the leads are well soldered onto them. I was pleased to see the length of wire supplied makes it easy to position the unit where ever you might need it to be. The PCB is well laid out and every solder joint is well done with no excessive or stray solder anywhere to be found. The board itself is only about 1" long and about .75" wide.
Features
The main feature (and reason for buying one of these) is the ability to notify the player when their battery is reaching that lower voltage limit, and give them enough time to swap batteries before any damage to the battery can occur. In addition to that, the "Lite PCB" also features auto battery voltage configuration. Basically it senses how many cells are in your pack (2 for a 7.4v pack, or 3 for an 11.1v pack, etc.) and configures the system automatically. That's a nice touch and makes it easier for the end user. The unit also works with battery packs from 7.4v up to 14.8v (2s-4s)
Performance
The configuration I'm using came with 1 balance tap for a 7.4v lipo, and a buzzer. Per my request, Wolfdragon also sent me a 11.1v balance tap so I can test it with both voltage batteries. First test was run with a 7.4v battery. The battery that is being used is a Thunderpower RC Pro Power 30C 2200mAh 2S (7.4v) pack. The pack came with ThunderPower balance taps, so I had to use a converter to make it work with Align style taps. No big deal as I already had one for my balancer. Plugging in the battery the LED on the PCB lights up once to let me know it's working, sends a beep through the buzzer, and then flashes the LED 2 times to let me know it recognizes the 7.4v pack. Everything is going well. The gun being used for testing is a Dboys SCAR-L running 400 FPS and putting out about 20 RPS on this 7.4v battery. Running all day long with the 7.4v battery I never had one hiccup. The PCB never gave me a false alarm. Most of the cheapo ones on Ebay often give false beeps under this load due to voltage dips while firing (more on this later). unfortunately, this great lipo lasted me all day and didn't need to be charged, and as such never tested the Lipo Lite PCB's capabilities. Excited to test this product out I tried out the 11.1v lipo on my Cyma M14 DMR running ~510 FPS in a semi only configuration. Again, it recognized the battery (this time with 3 flashes of the LED), and never once gave me a false beep. Being that I did not charge this battery before the skirmish, I was fairly certain that I'd either trash the battery or hear the heavenly beeping sound of the Lipo Lite PCB telling me the battery is low. Several games into the day I take down several opposing players in quick succession. Then it happened. A faint beeping noise. It took me a minute to figure out what was beeping, but I soon realized it was the Lipo Lite PCB. I had positioned the speaker in the back of the stock where it would be close to my head and I would be sure to hear it. Some people don't like the idea of a beeper thinking it would give away your position (you can get this with an LED only), but the sound was quiet enough that it's not obvious more than a few feet away, yet loud enough for the user to notice. I think it's perfect in volume, and figure, changing the battery in my gun is a noiser operation than the beeper going off. Later I had a chance to examine the battery. unfortunately I did not get around to doing it the day of the game, but rather the next morning. What I found was that the three cells registered: 3.7v, 3.4v, 3.7v. Now the true lower limit of a lipoly battery cell is 2.8v. At that point the cell is nothing more than a paperweight. The alarm in the PCB Lite, alerts the user once a cell drops to 3.0v. Now you're wondering... why did the alarm go off if the battery pack's lowest cell was 3.4v? Remember, I said I checked the battery the next morning. Under load the battery discharges. Once the battery has a chance to sit the voltage recovers a bit. Being that I checked the battery's voltages the next morning, the pack had a chance to recover. Most likely the pack became unbalanced under use (it is a fairly low-end pack), and the one cell dropped down to 3.0v triggering the alarm. The Lipoly PCB Lite performed flawlessly. I ran my findings by the mastermind behind ProjectWolfDragon.Com. He had this to say about my findings in regards to cheaper lower quality alternative alarm systems: "The PCB CPU constantly polls the voltage off of each cell of the battery. By comparing these voltage together, simple math can determine the voltage of each cell (C1 = Cell 1 Volts, C2-C1 = Cell 2 Volts, and C3-C2 = Cell 3 Volts). The resultant cell values are averaged over a progressive time range that itself is voltage dependent, this filters out unwanted spikes caused by normal firing cycles and thus determines the steady state voltage of the cell in what is actually a real-time dynamically varying system. This is why my PCB won't alarm until there is actually a problem, while the RC aircraft monitors will alarm with nearly every long trigger pull. The reason for this is duty cycle and resultant cell droop. An AEG is only operated on anywhere from 0-40% duty cycle in a 10 minute time period, with most AEG's (even those with hopper style magazines) being VERY hard pressed to sustain 4 minutes of constant fire before reloading. While most AEG's in a firefight do tend to fire repeatedly, it is the continuous draw that wreaks the most havoc as it causes the most severe voltage droops. Once the cell catches up to the demand, the voltage will come back up even while still under load, this return voltage is part of the key to how my PCB works as it is indicative of true cell health. Since my PCB ignores the initial firing induced droop, which is what causes the RC monitors to trip, the PCB doesn't alarm until the pack is actually in trouble. Back to duty cycle, an RC helicopter uses 100% throttle while in flight, this is 100% duty cycle, where all voltages matter, none can be ignored. Since it is 100% duty cycle, there are no induced droops, the pack simply starts at full power and steadily drifts downward toward full discharge. Thus the completely different way of handling dead pack detection. That's the short version of how the little suckers work and why RC monitors lie."
Conclusion
When it comes down to it, Lipos are the best bang for the buck battery out there. At the same time, they do require a bit more care than your regular NiMH or NiCad batteries. Filling the void with a quality product is the Lipo PCB Lite from ProjectWolfDragon.Com. Their product works flawlessly, is simple to install, and couldn't be any easier to use. It's an investment that will prolong the life of your battery and save some of that change in your pocket!
The Numbers:
Price: $17.50 as tested
Construction: 5/5 The construction was spot on with no excessive solder and everything needed to install included.
Features: 5/5 It protects your lipo from dying from over discharging, and offers auto configuration for any 2-4 cell battery pack.
Performance: 5/5 It does one thing, protect your lipo, and it does it well without flaws.
Links
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Out of interest what voltage of battery was your teammate using in it?
9.6v mini.
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So I opened up a teammate's pdw the other day. It has only seen one day of play and here's what I found. One damaged piston (very worn teeth), and 3 out of the 6 bearings were broken. The gearbox has some great features (easily released AR latch, bolt catch, etc), but the bearings are total garbage.
Luckily we found the bearings had fallen apart before any gear damage occurred. -
Didn't someone already fit a systema magnum (long) into the PDW grip? I know they had to use different screws and that it stuck out a millimeter or two but it can be done.
Nope. It's a systema medium. If you go with the systema medium motor you have to use longer screws in the grip as the tower at the top of the motor is slightly larger than the one on the dboys. This keeps the motor from moving high enough in the grip to use the stock screws. You have to use longer screws and the motor base plate sits about 2mm lower than stock.
Can't start new topics in Discussion and Tactical gear forums
in Site Errors and Suggestions
Posted
Well, today it let me post the review I've been trying to post for the past week or so. I did find out that if I tried to copy the article I wrote from my blog, then create a new post on here and paste in the info; I would get the error again. If I just put a subject line, and a few words in the post, then posted it, it would work. I could then go back, edit, and paste in my review to the now existing post and it would work fine. I still couldn't get it to preview the post though.