Hatchet
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Posts posted by Hatchet
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PTW stocks are meant to be close to RS dimensions aren't they? It'd be nice to pick up something that's not cheap rattly plastic...
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Hmmm. Might have to look at SPRing it then...
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You have just described the ARS CNC'd endcap; it's designed exactly for this sort of application. It's $18.00 at Echigoya; I don't think Richard has them in stock at the moment. I have one (I bought their entire buffer tube assembly) and it's brilliant; I can't recommend their stuff enough.
If you want to fit a full stock, you'll need a GBBR/RS specification one (Recoil Shock AR-15s' buffer tubes are closer to GBBR than AEG specification in diameter) and to file away some of the plate at the receiver end of the stock to stop it interfering with the extrusions on the underside of the buffer tube used to secure the bit with the stock catch holes.
Oooh, useful info, thanks.
Is the method of attachment not a bit different at the receiver end though? Castle nut doesn't seem to be present on the full stock, it's all part of the buffer tube assembly. Or at least that's how it seems from the pictures.
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CA. I have 2 SD front ends from back when they were made from lead, bricks, and the dark matter inside stars. The HK33 was bought as parts - unfortunately the upper receiver is broken in the usual place (shoddy design). PSG-1 stock I picked up for something else and decided to go a different direction, so had it lying around.
HK33 SD would be good, but it would inevitably break in the same place unless you had it remade in steel or something...
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This doesn't make sense on any level, but hey...
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Why is there no solid stock for this yet? It would make life so much easier. All you'd need would be a different buffer tube that would be pretty similar to the existing one, just with a different end.
Actually, I wonder if you could just machine another end cap up instead. Where the existing end cap sits, keeping the recoil assembly in, you'd just make another one that screwed in the same way but had a central thread to allow it to accept a screw, which you'd use to secure a full stock in place.
You then wouldn't need to do anything with all the gold contacts, etc, because you could do a direct wire to the gearbox with the wire passing through under the buffer tube.
A real one. Buffer tube screws in (like Marui one), fixed top slides over tube and screws in place.
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Made a couple more tweaks. Took the M110 out and put an M100 in. Also replaced the cylinder with a 4/5ths lonex one (which should give me a 1.9:1 ratio).
Now seeing 330-340ish (on the stock 6.08 barrel).
A bit more fettling still required though - I've managed to strip the wires *again*. Grrr. However, if it all works when I get it back together and stays around the same fps then it's not getting touched again...
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Also, I had to require the entire spectre because the wires are just too thick. Btc used 16 awg wires, way too thick for the sopmod, and it will rip the wire shielding if you try to snake it back underneath the buffer tube upon reassembly. I rewired with 22awg and it is much better space wise. Any suggestions on thinner wire that will be able to handle at least 30amps?
Weird, BTC usually use MPPE coated wire. AWG remains the same, but overall diameter is reduced due to thinner coating. I have 16awg in mine and it fits through the buffer tube gap ok. You wouldn't get a signal wire through as well though.
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Drilled holes in the end of the contact bars, solder wires in and ditched the fuse assembly/qd part. I was having no luck with it, even without a fuse (wire across the fuse space). I wonder if that little metal bit just can't handle the amps going through it.
Anyway, ran all day fine on 7.2v ,2200 15c. Successful test I guess.
Only thing is... I think I've got a little bored/out of love with it. Or perhaps it's just been one of those days.
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And just when you think you've got it all worked out...
Reconnected everything, test fire - motor won't turn over. A little bit more investigation shows that it's something to do with the QD battery setup. Putting the battery wires directly onto the contacts on the stock tube and it turns over fine. I need to take another look at the rails, etc. Although already has gold contact bars, so not quite sure what the problem is here...
Still, I have.. four hours or so to work it out...
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@Hatset i ve heard from others that in most cases the cylinder is not full type, but in mine socom model its a full type cylinder. Anyone knows why and when they change their cylinder pattern or its just random and dont affect anything important.?
@mrezzy very nice acquisition sir, but personally i think all those circuits are very expensive and for the price we payed for aour toys they should have included some short of mosfet/circuit.
I'll assume that was a typo...
Are you sure it's a full type? There's only one vent hole on it, not two, so if you're looking at the wrong side of the gearbox you'll miss it.
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Just the SHS hi-torque. £35. Money well spent.
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Hi torque motor has been installed and is making a significant difference. Trigger response and RoF have gone through the roof - I'm not going to test it with the 11.1 because I think it would explode. This is direct wired for ease of testing, so there may be a drop when I switch back to the quick change system. The only thing outstanding is I think I'll need to change the cylinder to a full type to make up for the volume loss from the AoE sorbo correction. More exact calculations to be taken when I have it apart.
As an added bonus, I no longer have to search for my car keys. I just wave the gun in the general area I think they might be and they fly towards the pistol grip...
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Lot of useful info there Richard. My shimming is quite different to that though. Using the standard systema shims,
bevel gear 0.3 top, 0.2 bottom
spur gear 0.2 top, 0.3 bottom
sector gear 0.3 top 0.2 bottom.
Which seems to run smoothly. I don't think I felt any clicking per se from the marui bushings, but I did give them a little tap with an appropriately sized punch pin just to make sure they were seated.
I think I'll wait on the motor before I meddle with it again as it's going to need the bevel gear reshimming at that point (and I'm going to rewire again as the existing is getting a bit dog eared). An easy way of direct wiring it also occurred to me, which I may or may not try out for testing purposes.
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Good to hear you might have found a solution to your problem Hatchet.
Working on AEGs can be so frustrating. Which brings me to…
I recently rewired my gun from the front (aka SOCOM) to the rear. Everything went well, no big problems, but I did notice I wasn't getting the FPS I was expecting and there was quite a bit of fluctuation in the readings. With an M100 spring from Eagle6 I was just nudging 300fps but some shots were as low as 280fps. Thanks to the legendary TM hop the gun was still shooting well so I haven't given it much thought.
I have this too, which is why I went down the whole spring thing in the first place. I did it the other day and was only pulling about 320ish on a e6 M110... Checked the usual suspects (compression, etc) last time but seem ok. Will have to take another look...
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Finally, some progress.
I made a spacer to sit behind the piston head from a 5p piece with a hole drilled in the middle. It's pretty much exactly the right size. It needs to just cover the piston rack gear but not stick out far enough to foul.
However, this wasn't the main change. What actually seems to have helped a lot is putting the original Marui bushings back in. For whatever reason, I think these are fractionally thinner than the others I've tried (or perhaps it's just how they sit in my gearbox). Anyway, the other bushings were sitting slightly more proud on the outside of the gearbox and I believe them rubbing/being under compression had essentially the same effect as overshimming the gears. Except that it's not noticeable when you do the standard shimming test of spinning the gears...
With the old bushings in I'm getting far livelier response and rate of fire. It's not perfect and has jammed a couple of times on non-completed cycles, but it's looking an awful lot better so far. I suspect/hope with the addition of the hi-torque motor (and eventually, the Spectre...) this should work as expected.
I still have tidying up/relubing/rewiring and so on to do, and putting the stock tube back on properly. I'm hoping this might improve matters further.
Because it'd be really nice to actually be able to go shooting with it again!
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Yes, stock EG1000. Although I have just ordered a SHS hi-torque as another last ditch attempt to fix it. I know this is brute forcing it, but... Anyway, will have to reshim, again, when that turns up.
I've been just screwing the stock on and not bothering with anything else too. When I'm "testing" I just leave the wiring loose. Actually I've unscrewed the contact plates so I can more easily connect different batteries to it to test. Have an 11.1 on the way to see what odds that makes too.
TBH, if I hadn't sunk so much into it already I'd have quit a while ago. It's great when it's working, but...
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A new day, and all that...
So, to try and answer some of the questions.
It's a CQB-R with the original quick change system (gold contacts, eagle6 lipo). The shimming was tested with the gearbox fully tightened and no piston, etc so I was able to spin it (hornbill gears) from the top. Seems to spin fine, only the weight of the gears acting as resistance, if you see what I mean. Shimming was done from the pinion/bevel first, then the sector gear. The sector gear clears the piston rack ok, so it's not catching on that. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what the shims are set at.
Aod - You're right on the AoE correction, I neglected to mention I'd sorbo'd the back of the cylinder head. I don't *think* this should be having any effect relating to the current problem though - it doesn't alter the position of anything when the working parts are to the rear, if you see what I mean. I can pull this and try spacers behind the piston head instead.
The pain with all this is having to remove the stock tube every time.
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Hatchet, if you are worried about it coming back two much you can fit a spacer or two between the piston head and piston. The piston will move the same distance but the piston head won't reach the same point. If your theory's correct then that will rule it out.
More likely there's some issue with the pistol grip causing poor Engadgement with the bevel gear and there for making it more work to turn over than it should be. Hence it no having the guys to carry on over the hill, since as you say you can turn it manually.
Refit the original pistol grip, add 1mm or 2mm of spacers and test again, double check shimming to. What bushings are they ? I may have a shim sheet already written down for that part config.
I think the spacers will be the next port of call, but I've lost the will to tackle it tonight. I did chuck some in initially, but of course that threw the AoE off... It's all good fun.
I have a few more theories to test as well, including getting a known good higher voltage battery to try.
Shimming was triple checked the last time I had it opened and I'm happy enough with it. Original pistol grip no good due to stripped threads on the baseplate, but the replacement is good. Bushings are the 5.9mm ones.
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Put a sector gear in there and look to see how far it draws the piston back, under normal circumstances the piston should never go that far back.
Otherwise, it could be the mix of the SHS piston with the Prometheus/Laylax pistonhead making the distance between the pistonhead and the release tooth too short, but in all my experience with AEGs in general and the Marui recoil M4s, the pistonhead should never withdraw from the back of the cylinder.
I have and it draws it back far enough to be an issue. Only just, but it does.
I had overlooked the SHS piston. Definitely a possibility, although I was getting blown fuses prior to replacing it anyway (although that *could* be the shimming at that time). I don't have a different piston to test this against. Other people must be using this combo though. Hrmm.
Edited to add - I guess short stroking the piston by removing one of the teeth from the front would test the hypothesis that it's this which is causing an issue. Of course, the lower fps might then negate putting an uprated spring in it in the first place, but at least it'd confirm the theory.
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Right, here are some images to try and explain what's going on.
Here you can see the gearbox shell and piston. Note the recess where the cylinder goes.
Above - How I'd expect this to be in a working setup. The piston head is as far back as it can go, and the lip of the piston head catches against the gearbox shell as designed.
Contrast this with the picture below (which you get when applying side pressure, even with the cylinder in) and you can see the piston won't come far enough back and therefore doesn't release.
When it's in this locked up situation it's possible to drop the motor and wind the gearbox on manually, with some effort.
Parts that have been upgraded and are relevant here are prom piston head, cylinder head, spring guide and nozzle. A new stock tube has also recently been added, and it's running a large pistol grip which I have modified since previously it was putting pressure on the bearings from outside the case (the notches in the grip weren't deep enough to clear them). I think this is trying to run it with an Eagle M110. Had similar results with the M100.
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Are you sure the piston teeth aren't catching on the cut-down sector gear teeth? I've found that that could happen depending on how you've shimmed your sector gear.
Incidentally, what battery are you using when you experience the lockups?
Yes, I'm sure they're not. Battery is a 7.4 3000 lipo, but I have tried others. And feeding it directly from the charger...
(13.3v or something). A high torque motor *might* do more, but if I can find a fix instead it'd be better. -
Will do. I should have some time on Thursday to dig out the camera, etc and try to get some decent images.
Being the heretic that I am, it did cross my mind that it'd be nice if someone made a non recoil gearbox that would fit inside the shell so you still got to take advantage of the excellent hop, etc...
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I think I may have *finally* had a breakthrough in why my sopmod keeps locking the gearbox when using an upgraded spring.
It's absolutely nothing to do with shimming, motor height, pistole grip, electrical supply, stock tube, etc.
It's to do with the piston/piston head.
This can be replicated by taking the gearbox all the way down, so you just have the piston and the empty half of the shell. Then, use your thumb to push the piston hard against it's rails as you slowly draw it back. There's a lip on the piston head that sets how far back it can go. However, on mine, with side pressure as above (like you'd get with an uprated spring, but not a normal one) it stops fractionally before that.This happens even if you have the cylinder in place. What this is doing is preventing the piston from being drawn back any further, so it can't clear the last tooth and release.
Of course, when you use a lower powered spring, this doesn't happen. And when you test in the gearbox without one, it all seems fine. It also explains why I could sometimes get it working again with a sharp smack to the side - the sideways blow was making the caught piston head jump clear of the lip and allowing it to travel back that fraction further and release.
The next step is to work out why this is happening. Is it something I've done with an aftermarket upgrade, is it wear to the parts, etc or do I just have a fractionally miscast gearbox shell or cylinder (which might also explain the below average fps readings).
However I feel *massively* relieved and really think this might be the solution to my problems.
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Initial Impressions of the TM SOPMOD M4 AEG
in Rifles (AEG)
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I'll take a look. Usually it's the getting people to ship them that's the pain, but it's not insurmountable.