Maruzen M1100 Project-The Ultimate Airsoft Shotgun

[airsofter0866]

I currently have one of these... http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...il?prodID=21719

 

Its not in current working order at the moment but I will be picking up a parts gun shortly(no later than christmas time) and that will sort out its issues.

 

Anyway, here is my plan...

~Convert it to external co2(have already done this with my m870 so it shouldnt be a problem)

~Make it magazine fed

 

for the magazine fed part basically I need to filed down the shell extractor take out the shell carrier and do something similar to this http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=/p...otgun_hicap.htm sounds pretty simple right?

 

Well heres the complicated part, I need ideas here. I want the BBs to feed out of the original magazine tube instead of an ugly external mag. I had a really simple idea but I do not think it will work. Here is a design of what I was thinking anyway

 

shotgun_mag_design_v.1.bmp

 

So right now Im looking for improvments/ new ideas for my internal mag idea.

 

If I can acomplish this I will have a semi auto, multi shot, GBB, mag fed, sufficiently powered shotgun. If I can get this to work it make be the ultimate airsoft shotgun

[Kenworth W900]

Feeding issues before you can say the word 'jam' - M500 setup is the only way my friend

 

But aside from that: what loading mechanism are you going to have in place?

 

Keep in mind that any feed system into a shell in the chamber may have problems since its designed to eject the shells after each shot. Perhaps the ejection function may have to be removed? Although that may be to inextricably linked to the semi-auto function of the gun through the extraction system.

[airsofter0866]

Keeping the shell in place shouldnt be too hard there is a little notch on the inside the of the bolt that hits the rim of the shell flinging it out the side. These things are notorious for not ejecting properly so keeping the shell in place shouldnt be a problem especially once I file down the extracter.

 

What do you mean by loading mechanism?

 

And yes I figured the idea wouldnt work but it was the first thing I thought of. The m500 system or a standard spring system(like a midcap) were my next ideas actually.

 

On that note if any one has an m500 that they will let me scavenge for parts let me know. 6mm version preferably but 8mm might work for a different idea.(spring and follower at the bottom, make it into a double stack mag)

[Kenworth W900]

What do you mean by loading mechanism?

 

It's all well and good having the BB's being pushed into a shell locked in the chamber, but thats not really the rounds actually being chambered. How are you going to keep them from being forced out of the shell? (front or rear)

[airsofter0866]

The O-rings hold the bbs in place really well actually. I can hold my mouth up to the rear o-ring and no matter how hard I blow I cannot get BBs to come out. As long as there is less than 10 bbs they will not fall our from shaking it either. I think the o-rings' strength will be sufficient for keeping the BBs in the shell untill it is fired. If not I could probably just add more/larger o-rings and it should do the trick.

 

I understand that this is probably the most complicated way to do it but I really want to have the largest mag capacity possible while still keeping it internal. I really wanted to utilize the large amount of space in the mag tube like in my original design. If its possible this is THE WAY I would like to do it. Of course it may not be possible ha ha.

 

Can anybody think of a way i could mod hi-cap intenals or do something so that I would be able to use the large capacity of the mag tube?

 

If not Ill probably have to go to the m500 or custom mag route

[X Lupin]

Hmmm... Thought about having a magazine in the "magazine tube," feeding into some brass piping with a small, spring loaded BB retaining lip, could be scavenged off any AEG mag. Add some material under the shell so that when the shell is at full rear position, it disengages the retainer, and the BB's come up through the tube, into a hole under the mag, into the shell. Add some material under the shell in the action so the hole is covered closely at all times, except when in contact with the magazine. So then, when it hits forward, you can fire, expel the BB's in the shell, it reciprocates, refills itself, and the cycle completes.

 

Those were just me writing my thoughts quickly. If you like my idea, I could draw a diagram for you to clarify. That's how I would do it, anyway.

 

::EDIT:: Also, as per your magazine issues. How about taking the internals of a very small hicap, like a G18C hicap, and planting that in the magazine tube, along with some tube to lead it into the mechanism I previously mentioned and a ramp so the BB's are still fed by gravity into the hicap. Of course, I have never owned an AEP, so I don't know how big the hicaps actually are, but that's my little idea.

[Username_Here]

Only problem I foresee with any ideas would be getting ~5 bb's to feed into the shell fast enough before the shell is already on its way back home to the breech.

[airsofter0866]

X Lupin,

Im not sure If I fully understand your idea. It sounds like you are saying that the shell moves forward before being fired? With the maruzen series shotguns the bolt covers the shell but does not actually push the shell forward. Once the shell is in chambered it does not move untill it is ejected. Unless I misunderstood you i dont think that idea would work.

 

I had a new idea for the internal mag and I think this one might actually work

 

I would block off the bottom of the gun where the shell carrier would be with a bit of plastic or something. Then use the internal windy bits from a hi cap and put them there. Then feed the BBs into the hi-cap mech from the shell tube. I could still use my magazine tube and shell follower idea to push the BBs into the hi-cap mech instead of having them feed in by gravity.

 

Heres a digram (none of my diagrams will be even close to scale btw ha ha)

 

black is the hi-cap mech I forgot to mark it

The main problem I see is finding a hi-cap with small enough internals to fit

[Kenworth W900]

Nice idea, it does actually look entirely feasible. However, I still think that an M500 mechanism, once installed, will be far simpler, quicker and more reliable. You can get 50 pumps off on one mag full, and thats more than enough for a game.

[airsofter0866]

Yeah but I have a small fealing that I may go a wee bit trigger happy with a semi-auto shotty

 

I hear what your saying about the m500 design. Once its installed it would be simpler and easier. However I think installing it may be a bit tricky. It looks like I would have to do some machining which I do not have the capability to do. It must be able to turn and click in place, latching mechanism, hole in mag tube for filling with BBs, etc. It just seams like too much work. And I would have to find a parts M500 which would be a bit difficult.

 

I need suggestions on what hi-cap internals you think would fit, thats the next step.

Of course if you have any other ideas for the internal mag deal I would love to hear them.

[Kenworth W900]

I have no further ideas on the mag, but as for loading mech - try finding someone with a broken M1100 Defender. Thay have a pre-built mag adaptor inside them, which can be removed and used for this project.

[airsofter0866]

The defender mag wouldnt work since it is not a hi-cap, the loading mech for the defender also only alows 3 bbs to be shot.

[Kenworth W900]

I said adaptor, not mag.

 

Use the adaptor as the perfect way to load rounds from in internal tube magazine into the chamber.

 

EDIT: Yes, granted, but it can be modified to do 5. Whats wrong with 3 anyway?

[airsofter0866]

But wouldn't that still only allow me to load 3 BBs at a time?

 

If I can find a broken defender for parts(unlikely) Ill buy it just to try

 

I opened up an AK hi-cap today only to find that all the windy bits are about 3-4 inches tall so that deffinetly wont work. Im thinking maybe a m16vn mag? This is the main part I need help with at the moment since I dont have a whole bunch of different kinds of mags to open up and look at.

 

EDIT: Full sized m16 mags wont work

[X Lupin]

My idea didn't involve the shell moving forward before anything... It would just have to be stuck to the bolt, with the extractor removed. The shell would move back and forth as it should, just without being ejected.

[airsofter0866]

When the bolt moves back the shell doesnt move back with it. There is a notch at the front of the bolt that catches on the brass lip on the back of the shell. The bolt slides back when the gun is fired and when it contacts the brass on the shell it flies out of the side of the gun from the same place it started. If the shell was connected to the bolt then it(the bolt) would not be able to move. The shell cannot move forward or backward when it is loaded. The only place it can go is out the side when the gun cycles.

 

The bolt only covers the ejection port, it does not move the shell forwards or backwards at all like a real shotgun. It moves independently from the shell.

 

I do not feal like I am explaining this well

[X Lupin]

Uhm... I think I was misunderstood. I understand how the system works, it's essentially like any other case ejecting system. I just don't think I'm explaining myself correctly, either.

[airsofter0866]

Ha ha ok, so I guess we are all good then.

[airsofter0866]

Im starting to think that maybe no Hi-cap internals will fit, anyone have an mp5 mag they could check?

[Kenworth W900]

Hicap mag internals, for the most part, are standardised (much like GBs) to simplify production - another TM innovation I believe. Hence AK, G3, M16 and AUG (basically all standard rifles) magazines all use feed wheels, wind wheels and connector gears to the same spec.

 

The same applies to SMG hicaps, only scaled down. Thompson, MP5, Uzi, etc all use this smaller setup in their hicaps. I'm afraid that from past experience I know that this means that even SMG mechs will still be too big. Your only hope is to find perhaps an AEP with a hicap that has been scaled down even further - although I'm afraid that for the most part AEP 'hicaps' aren't true hicaps, they just have more rounds. E.g. G18c AEP has a 100rnds midcap that is commonly referred to as a hicap.

 

Finally, I should add that your chances of finding any such mech, small enough for the area below the M1100 chamber, are made slimer by the fact that BB's are 6mm across. And unless an AS manufacturer has decided to make a hicap with a feed wheel loading only 1-2 at a time then it seems utterly implausible.

[airsofter0866]

Im worried about height not width or length. All the gears and such need to be short enough(which I dont think Im going to find) anything else I can trim down.

 

I noticed that the wind wheel usually take up the most space on hi-cap internals so I figured since mp5 hi-caps have a smaller wheel they will take up less space but it will probably still be too big.

 

Maybe I can take smg hi-cap intenals and modify them a bit making the gears more or less horizontal instead of vertical.

[Kenworth W900]

Im worried about height not width or length. All the gears and such need to be short enough(which I dont think Im going to find) anything else I can trim down.

 

I noticed that the wind wheel usually take up the most space on hi-cap internals so I figured since mp5 hi-caps have a smaller wheel they will take up less space but it will probably still be too big.

 

Well, thats what I meant, its just too big. It simply cannot work.

 

The area below the chamber is scarcely 20mm high or wide - not nearly big enough for any hicap mech to fit.

 

 

 

Just for the sake of reference: an MP5 hicap mech measures 20x90x30mm.

[airsofter0866]

M16 hi cap internals are slim enoguh that they would fit, just too tall. I think Im going to have to go with my spring fed mag idea instead unfortunatly

[Kenworth W900]

Yeah, good luck with that...

[airsofter0866]

Im not talking about going back to my first idea, Im saying make like a custom spring fed mid cap style mag inside the made tube.