Revolver technical picture request.

[Dagonet]

I am researching my next new shiny thing, and could do with some more help.

 

Done the normal trawl through bizarre youtube reviews on shaky cameras by people who mabye shouldn't be let near blunt cutlery, done the normal forum seachs, but haven't quite found what i am after.

 

I am in the UK, and will have to run under 350fps to play the pistol. I narrowed down to Win Gun or TM as they can be got in the UK and aren't silly high prices. Tanakas appear to be just as hit and miss but are harder to get and not really cheap. KWC pythons don't appear to available here but only run about 220fps.

 

Have looked into the Win Gun revolvers. Not a great deal of direct technical information. I have found a video of the insides and have worked out how to de-tune them to sensible power levels. The pros are the metal sears and hammer mech, the trigger group looks up to some tuning and polishing to smooth the pull out.

I am aware of having to modify the inner barrel for a basic hop. I quite like the shell set up and speed loaders.

Not a practical pistol, but with work it has promise.

 

From watching a stack of videos, it's become apparent that the valve is a crude set up and the power/FPS levels are all over the place, the first few shots are wildly high, then it starts to settle and drop in FPS, but in wild jumps of 50+fps between shots, factor in the variable nature of gas and temperture.

Well i am not so sure about getting consistent FPS and staying within playable limits. I haven't found a direct guide to "do this and you will get 340fps max from it " some players are using them, and claim 300fps out of the box with no mods. So again it appears there could be a massive variable in CO2 capsule pressure or valves.

 

So back to the TM Python range.

Again, same answers allways crop up and most seem the same over several years. TMs will eat themselves, rubbish plastic build quailty, must use 134a, the seals are prone to failure, and good luck getting spares.

 

Picture Request !

Could anyone out there please post a picture of a current spec TM Python, any barrel length. I would like to see the insides of the trigger mech.

So hand grips off, and the side plate off to show the gas system and inner workings.

 

I have only found a single picture of the above, but the quailty is poor and blurred and it's several years old.

Are the internal sears/hammer plastic ?

Is the so called new and improved version just a slightly different shade of black ?

Is the newish Chrome version any different inside to a 2005 model ?

 

I have seen reference to others replacing seals themselves and playing with the fixed hop, but little technical information or guides to this.

There is a clip on you tube of a 6" chrome doing 330fps on ET1000 gas, shot over the counter of an airsoft shop, might be vietnam. (i am aware of what that does to seals and the 24shot system on old ones)

 

The stock 290fps will do me fine, i would like to know what i am getting into as most chatter states the gas system is fragile and complicated and a pain to work on. I can find chatter but no pictures or recent reliable/sensible reviews.

 

Any chance of someone posting a piccy for me please.

 

Thanks.

[sigma3]

I would be interested in any diagrams of a WinGun - I picked one up for $20 and it needs a little work. I know nothing about revolvers, ironic because I assume they're comparably pretty simple.

[renegadecow]

Here's a disassembly guide of the TM Python:

http://tntrbox.com/gun/The%20Book%20of%20Toyguns%20Disassembly/Tokyo%20Marui/GBBs%20-%20NBBs/TM%20Colt%20Python%20Revolver/python%20001.jpg

The KWC is actually a clone of TM only in that they changed the bullets to be removable and excluded a part in the hammer assembly making it one with the hammer itself. That said, scrounging for parts, the TM and KWC cylinder, shells and hammer are incompatible.

I can only speak for KWC as that's what I have and the problem is not the lack of metal internal parts but their lack in durability. You have really small parts in diecast zinc and we're talking less than 1sq mm cross section in many of the parts which are prone to shearing off eventually. The parts that are susceptible to failure when using higher pressure gas (also with TM) is the gas route which is plastic and has very thin walls. In just a few weeks mine had begun to crack but was able to reinforce it with super glue. TM of course are made of better quality ABS plastic so may not even need this or show signs of wear from propane.

 

Have you checked reviews of the Marushin M629 X-Cartridge? Those are pretty solid not to mention cheap.

[Dagonet]

Thought you might pop up and answer RC

 

Thank you very much for the link.

 

Sigma3 i will do a link here later today, i found a Norse (in english) video of a win guns guts, and several chrono tests. This fella is more into upping the FPS and talks about how to do so. But it's the best view of the insides i could find, and explains the odd win gun hump as it's housing the valve system.

 

 

Right back later, any one else feel free to join in.

 

The sun is out,

The sky is blue,

A 3hour post xmas pistol rage out is due

 

2 mags decided to have seal issues, fixed them, now off to a club special and sniper pistol fun....back later.

[Dagonet]

Had a long stare at the link Renegadecow.

That is very helpfull indeed.

 

It did take several minutes to work out the gas route from the "mag" to the nozzle. I was expecting a pipe linking them up. Not the square channel that looks to be inmoulded with the frame.

To stay within keeping the pistol looking real i understand why TM have done it that way. The Tanaka gas in the cylinder system does make more sense. Win Gun have a direct gas route from capsule to valve/nozzle, they haven't tried to intergrate it like the others, but made the frame fit the gas system, cheaper R&D and not in keeping looks wise with real revolvers, but cheap and sensible way of doing things.

 

Nice to see the hop rubber. I can't say i have seen any parts at all for revolvers, but it looks like there is room to cut and shut other rubbers if the stock one fails. Any barrel change would be a DIY affair, i cant see enough detail in the picture. Then again stock TM brass barrels are damn fine anyway.

Hammer spring is not what i expected. I expected to see a full length leaf spring or coil (as per real revolvers) i will assume the trigger pull is no worse than a TM MK23, and may just benefit from a degrease and use of high grade lubes. I wouldn't try and polish contact surfaces on zinc alloy parts, material is too soft to really benefit.

 

Gas then. I will assume most people just whack whatever comes to hand in them, then whinge about blown seals, or as you have pointed out the square channel gas route can crack under pressure. If it's anything like my 2 other TM pistols then a clean out and seal lube first before any gas goes in will be in order.

Here in the UK it's cooler most of the year. 134a gas only really works in the height of summer on GBB. Most just use green or propane all year round, we don't get too many days when the temperture gets over 25oc, on those rarer days i just switch to Ultra. if we get around 30oc then be carefull. (it's not often we get 30+ here)

I can still get 134a, so summer is covered and i reckon Abbey Ultra will be fine for winter use, high chance the revolver will be tucked away under my arm, under my jacket, so performance should be ok when really cold.

Just needs a bit more care than normal.

 

I did see one being range tested a few months back, but didn't get to have a close look. Rattled of shots pretty quickly, and was shooting flat to 25m+ no idea what bbs or gas used. Was a black 4" TM.

 

Last game i got to have a look but not shoot a black KWC 4" looked alright, nice balance, the owner was happy with it, not to pokey but playable when the AEG goes down mid firefight.

Also got to handle a black Win-Gun 4", again looks alright, owner claimed 300ish fps no hammer/valve mods. He did have a broken TM and had swapped the TM Python outer barrel onto the Win-Gun and repainted the lot satin black. It looked quite smart. The TM outer barrel did need some work to fit, he said it was easy enough.

 

The swingometer is swinging towards TM now not the most power and some care needed but has promise. hmmmm

 

 

Right sigma3.

Try this out. Not a take down guide, but a good look at the insides of a WG and some power-up tweeks. There are a couple of chrono vids and a follow up to his reworking of the hammer spring. A lot of reviews on airsoft and air-pistols versions of WGs.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCEoEengGe4&feature=related or just search for MrRuneRebel not all are in english.

[sigma3]

Thanks man! I'll check it out!

[paranoiddroid]

ok easy way to mod the wingun is mod the shells not the gun reseal the shells with liquid steel and redrill the air hole with a smaller diameter to achieve the desired fps by restricting the co2 flow.

[Dagonet]

Aaaa i did wonder about your shell mod comment elsewhere, that answers that then

 

How stable is the FPS ? the online tests i have watched (several out there) show some big jumps, i wasn't happy with wild readings.

I wonder if this is the nature of CO2 capsules, i know there are a few types, lubed and unlubed, could different brands have different PSI as well.

 

TM is looking like a easy bet, more care needed, but less overall work.

[paranoiddroid]

according to the tech fairly stable co2 cartridge brands have power differences however.