Editing for sale titles

[zachattack]

I've been thinking about this for a while and decided to post it here. I just wanted to see what everyone else (mainly arnie and the other mods) thinks about it and maybe get it changed.

 

My idea is this. I would like the Topic Title and Topic description to be able to be edited forever. Not the bulk of the post, just the Title and subtitle. I'd like this because it would be very helpful in keeping your thread/s titles up to date. Personally crackisbad has been very helpful in this, but I'd love to save him some work when I feel like changing my title on a whim.

I've read this thread and it doesn't seem to have any ideas that are against it.

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=15

[Carrion]

i too would like this even if it just allows me to put an update into it

[Md0ggyd0g]

I'd like to see this (I know, I carry a lot of weight around here), just because it's annoying to have/find a sale but have the title not match what is now for sale.

 

Hopefully it would also cut down on someone having to start a billion threads, just change the title when it's something new.

[crackisbad]

if they start a billion threads for the basically the same thing they will definitely be getting a "time out"

 

like Zach mentioned, I've had no problem when members have asked me to edit their titles, and sometimes, when i notice that what has been added for sale in the thread doesn't match the title, i will fix it without them asking and just put a note in the thread mentioning what happened.

 

i think i would like to see this because i have noticed a lot of people starting a sale thread for lets say a GBB, and the title only mentions the GBB. But then later on adds some Gear and an AEG. The GBB and some of the gear get sold, but he still has some gear and the AEG for sale but the topic title doesn't mention either. so then the members posts in the thread requesting that a mod delete or close the thread because he will make a new one with "better pictures and information." so essentially he then has two thread on the first page selling the same thing; NOT ok.

 

but i dont know if this is possible, we'll have to wait until Marlowe or the big man himself sees this to get a definitive answer.

[Shriven]

I'd quite like to be able to edit my title too, for things like clearouts where you rummage around and find bits of kit scattered to the four winds... however, would editting the title bump it, and therefore go against the No Bumps Plz rule?

[Stealthbomber]

I'm always dubious about ANYTHING related to allowing people to alter sales related stuff.

 

It'd be far too easy for "For Sale: G&P M4 c/w 2 hicaps and 10 midcaps" to become "For Sale: TM M4 c/w 2 hicaps" after an upset buyer receives something less than he was expecting.

 

A car forum I use has a system whereby the seller can close their own thread and, in doing so, select a bunch of options such as Complete, Retracted, Re-listed, etc and, after the thread is closed, the selected option appears as a prefix for the thread title.

During searching you can also filter your searches to omit items listed as complete or retracted etc.

That works pretty well.

[zachattack]

I'm always dubious about ANYTHING related to allowing people to alter sales related stuff.

 

It'd be far too easy for "For Sale: G&P M4 c/w 2 hicaps and 10 midcaps" to become "For Sale: TM M4 c/w 2 hicaps" after an upset buyer receives something less than he was expecting.

I'd just like to say to that that I've never seen an add where someone is selling stuff that they don't say in the description what it is. Even if they can change the title, with what I'm suggesting you couldn't edit the main content of the thread, so even if you changed the title the main bulk of your post would contradict it.

 

Edit: I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but you would have to be a very trusting person to buy from someone that didn't have a description other than their title.

Edited March 31, 2008 by zachattack

[Stealthbomber]

I'd just like to say to that that I've never seen an add where someone is selling stuff that they don't say in the description what it is. Even if they can change the title, with what I'm suggesting you couldn't edit the main content of the thread, so even if you changed the title the main bulk of your post would contradict it.

 

Edit: I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but you would have to be a very trusting person to buy from someone that didn't have a description other than their title.

The one thing I've learned since I've been using the internet is that if there's a loophole, however small, it's only a matter of time before somebody exploits it.

It doesn't help, as well that IM systems create a "hive mind" in certain cliques and I'm often seen something that one person makes an innocent comment about manipulated by somebody with a devious mind.

 

Put it another way; Could you write an advert that, after the title had been changed, could be read in an ambiguous way?

Seriously, I could.

It might be something as simple as calling a gun a G&P M4 in the title then referring to it as an M4 throughout the text then selling the persona DBoys gun.

You could really nail this one by posting a pic of a G&P M4 (including the box) and then writing "gun and extras as shown in pictures" and then, once you went ahead with the scam, swap the pictures, in your photobucket account, so they clearly show a DBoys AEG and box.

Who'd believe you unless you took a screen-grab of the original ad'.

 

I know that's unlikely but I can ASSURE you that, sooner or later, somebody would manipulate a title to suit their own ends. It's inevitable.

[zachattack]

Thanks for the ideas. Might have to use some in the future. jk

 

On a serious note however I think I'm going to have to agree with you about a little loophole will get exploited. And I don't think I'd have any problem writing an add that didn't mention specifically what it was.

 

Could you guys do it so that when you edited your title the old title automatically goes into the top of you weapon description? And if you edited it more than once they just keep piling up? This might be a little too much work to do, but I'm trying to be creative as I'd really love for this to get done.

Edited April 1, 2008 by zachattack

[Md0ggyd0g]

Though if someone doesn't specify exactly what the deal is for via pm, they are almost asking to be blindsided.

[Anteater]

Best leave it as is, you can PM/report it and someone will review it and change it for you if there's no issue.

 

Some members report their sales asking for the original price to be changed to their newest price to keep the thread organized but I really don't like any information being removed from the original post for pretty much stealth's reasons. Someone will always abuse things.

[zachattack]

Read my last post. The latest revision of of this would have the previous title/s put into the body of the text. This way you could always see what the title had been as well as letting people change their titles. This would probably be a lot of code writing, but hopefully not.

[kliskey]

There are only two things that I would like to see changed about the for sales threads. One relating, and one not

 

Firstly, I agree with Stealth, that potentially people will abuse the system, and its better in any case to leave the original post in place, so that buyers can read Everything with out misunderstanding.

However, we have already increased the required post count of 100 for people to access these areas, so I would hope that that has deterred some scum from selling on here in the first place

 

Secondly, bring back the feedback system but have it exclusively setup to the Sales area - Or atleast have a trial period of 1 month... If it gets abused, then take it away again... But I honestly feel that it is an important asset for buyers and sellers alike!

 

[Marlowe]

I feel personally that the best (or at least, the safest) method for changing sales titles is to request a Sales / Off Topic / Global Moderator to make the changes. This way all changes should be above board and minimise the chances of a buyer crying foul upon receiving something they did not expect.

 

In terms of the reputation, I agree that it is a shame that we can't have it for sales, but I would argue that the new system of the 'Dodgy Seller' tag to anyone with questionable reputation as a seller is a much better way of enabling buyers to decide whether the seller is trustworthy or not.

 

There are numerous reasons why I feel the reputation system didn't work.

 

The first, and most obvious, is that the system was massively abused by people posting the likes of 'I like you' and became entirely unworkable. Although the guilty parties would argue they wouldn't do this as they've matured a bit, we have a few thousand people join every month and some of these are likely to be less mature members who will abuse the system just as previous members did. The system would require considerable manpower to police (the main reason why it was abandoned rather than us actually attempting to police it better), as checking 36,000+ members on a daily basis simply isn't possible or indeed time-effective. Even if we could check, many would 'cheat' by having friends fake sales in order to boost their reputation.

 

The second reason is that the reputation system effectively rewards those who sell a lot - or to be more accurate, those who sell to a lot of different members, regardless of the value etc of the goods. This means that if Jack Spratt sells a Systema PTW he'll get one rep. If Ivor Biggun sells five hundred springers (about the same price, eh?), he'll get 500 rep. In my book although there's a lot of responsiblity for each item getting there, this seems a little unfair when it is much easier to get a user reimbursed for a £1.50 pistol than it is for a £750 rifle.

 

Thirdly (and this is important), while the new approach is slower, you know that the system is accurate. We base the Buyer Beware tag upon careful research of a member, looking at 'Problem With...' threads and private contact from members. We don't apply the tag hastily, but we do apply it when confident the user should carry a warning to any future users. Crucially, if we start to get enough positive feedback about the user, we can remove the tag, making it just as flexible as getting positive feedback after receiving negative. The benefit to this system is that it make use of the 'Problem With' thread, encouraging members to report issues rather than firing off a quick negative rep which can often be for obscure, unclear reasons which will not inform those who deal with that seller in future.

 

Anyway, hope that clears things up. Any questions, pop me a message. I'll close this now as I can't really see anything new being added to it.

 

 

[Stealthbomber]

At the risk of opening a can of worms (and then closing it again) bear in mind that any reputation system is open to abuse.

 

We already encountered this during the brief period where the rep system WAS intended only for sales.

Unfortunately, to be blunt, a bunch of immature MSN-cliques all got together an circle-jerked their rep's up the wazoo.

 

As a sales rep, at the time, I noticed this quite a lot. We're not stupid. It was obvious.

 

One person gives another a +ve rep point and leaves a comment such as "lol great sale, man" and receives a rep in return with the comment "Good buyer ".

There's nothing to prove any sale actually took place at all and, in fact, if you check the posts of such people, there was often no record of the person buying or selling an item.

 

Alas, some rather immature people on these forums used to simply log onto Arnies every day and, as a matter of course, hand out +ve rep's to a group of their friends.

 

And that's what killed it.