Material Choices for arms on Airsoft Shirt

[ripready]

yes if you send me the fabric I can of course use it in the production of your garment. But bear in mind, everyone wants authenticity until they see the price tag Will it be cheaper if you send me the fabric, most likely NOT because:

 

1. you have to factor in the shipping of the fabric to me in Hong Kong

2. you have to buy enough fabric to allow for wastage. The worst thing that can happen is you order shirts, then you run out of fabric and have to resend

3. the extra cost in handling the fabric. We produce some of our products in Hong Kong, but depending on volume we would be sending it to our facility in China which increases the handling on our end

 

A lot of milsim guys wouldn't be using my stuff anyways because it wouldn't be made from the right materials, patterns, etc... They might buy solid colours. But I believe there is a segment that is not super serious and wouldn't care if the pattern was off by a bit or would put their team logo on it. But we'll see what happens. I don't mind building the prototypes.

[ripready]

Ok now here's an example of what I mean. This site will allow you do download camouflage textures that look very similar:

 

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm...hKey=camouflage

 

So I could use these to print the garments. But if you looked at it really close you would be able to tell that it is a smaller than normal tileable pattern so you don't have the same degree of randomness.

 

Would this be acceptable? Who knows but if we're talking about a shirt that is a solid color torso and only the arms are camouflage would you really know the difference?

[Shriven]

Hmm. Well, my choice of camo means you cannot buy it by the yard, nor can you find pictures of the pattern ( as the internet did not exist when it did). So I guess I'll have to buy a shirt and send it to you.

[uscmCorps]

I guess I'll have to buy a shirt and send it to you.

The only problem with the Shriven is that ripready would have to make the camo pattern based on the shirt you send him. Why is this a problem? Because (1) he may not have the resources to have someone go through the laborsome task of replicating the pattern (it's not like he can just take a photo of the garment and voila, pattern is ready), and (2) depending on the camo pattern you're talking about, a shirt does not have enough surface area to see the entire camo pattern repeated and therefore you're missing data to reproduce the entire pattern.

 

 

[McArthur]

RipReady - have you actually emailed the DoD of certain nations, explain what you are doing, and ask kindly if you may use their pattern?

 

Worst case scenario: They say no.

 

Best case scenario: They think "Hey, at least this guy has the balls to come and ask us before ripping off our pattern" and say yes.

[aznsk8s87]

No, worst case scenario, they could interpret that as working for a terrorist objective and have him sent to gitmo.

 

That aside: even if ripready was sent a jacket with the camo on it, would there be enough usable fabric there to make the sleeves?

[ripready]

Well, I'm content on making solid colours and adding custom team logos to them. However, since our company specializes in customized garments, we can and are happy to make garments with camouflage patterns. It just depends on if you can supply the digital files to make them

[McArthur]

Oh okay. So if I sent you a file which looked suspiciously "like" MARPAT, you would still be able to print it?

[ripready]

If you send me a file to print, yes I'll output anything. I'm only concerned with the dots on the fabric not the actual content; besides I'm no expert in camouflage. What is MARPAT? hehe

[Xsjado]

Personally I would be happy with solid colour sleeves. If this is going towards casual airsofters more than the hardcore crowd then the benefit of the pattern is minimal in the first place. A selection of solid colours to match a variety of situations would be more useful. OD, tan, CB and black/navy would be a good range. If they are going to be as cheap as you suggest then I'd happily buy 2 or 3 of them if they were comfortable and practical.

 

Durability of the sleeves is a must as far as I'm concerned; its your torso that needs to be kept cool. Also, I have never used pockets on the arms and if they are going to drive up costs then I don't think its worth it. On the other hand, some form of integrated padding on the elbows, or a least a place where we could insert our own pads that would be much appreciated. Only other thing I can think of would be making them seamless but that isn't high on the priority list.

[McArthur]

Any news RipReady?

 

(My Krukspec combat shirt has got a patch on the torso where it's actually getting ripped up now. It's still usable, but there's an obvious area where something is grazing the material. I want something which is an improvement over the Krukspec shirt, which has been great otherwise)

[uscmCorps]

I'm also curious if there is anything to update. For the black shirt I'd like to have made, I already know exactly how I would like it and have the graphics ready to be heat sealed onto the shirt as initially discussed.

[ripready]

A little impatient are we? So here's the prototype. Still a long way to go but it will give you an idea of how this thing "can" look. We decided to build just the loose fit drifit shirt with polyester breathable arms. This stuff is similar to ripstop but has more of a synthetic feel than cotton feel but is quite durable.

 

Some things I would lose right away are the shoulder cordura reinforcements and the length of the elbow/forearm reinforcements have to be shortened. Neck is double height but can be folded to half height. Vented mesh under the arms and excuse the faux camouflage pattern

 

There are internal pockets under the shoulder, the elbow/forearm area and the neck so you can put foam in there to pad yourself.

[Crimson]

wow those look excellent

 

Any pictures or plans from the previous thread (combat bottoms)

[Xsjado]

Looks good

 

I'd still like to see some solid colour versions available, otherwise looks pretty much exactly like what I was thinking of.

[Crimson]

Solid colours why would you want something so simple when you can have anything you want.

 

Lol i am at the same stage as uscmCorps all images and locations for my shirt ! Just give the word rip ready

[Xsjado]

Because I'm not interested in most camo patterns, especially as they won't be accurate due to licensing issues. A plain tan version can be worn with any desert pattern and not look out of place. A desert DPM version would look a bit strange when combined with my Wüstentarn trousers. I've had replica camo mixed with my genuine stuff before and the colour differences annoy me to no end lol

[ra1d3x]

Wow, the shirt looks AWESOME!! I don't mind what you make of the final product look like, I will still buy one!!

[uscmCorps]

A little impatient are we?

Just dying to see this come to fruition

 

So here's the prototype. Still a long way to go but it will give you an idea of how this thing "can" look. We decided to build just the loose fit drifit shirt with polyester breathable arms. This stuff is similar to ripstop but has more of a synthetic feel than cotton feel but is quite durable.

 

Some things I would lose right away are the shoulder cordura reinforcements and the length of the elbow/forearm reinforcements have to be shortened. Neck is double height but can be folded to half height. Vented mesh under the arms and excuse the faux camouflage pattern

 

There are internal pockets under the shoulder, the elbow/forearm area and the neck so you can put foam in there to pad yourself.

 

Very interesting and impressive. Some observations:

* I noticed that the polyester material on the arms is also used on the sides of the shirt's torso and that the loose drifit material only covers the front and back of the torso. Was this done for a particular reason? Personally I'd prefer the entire torso to be the loose drifit material.

* I do like the usage of mesh under the arm pits. That'll be a god send especially in temperate climates and with darker patterns/solids. Very nice indeed!

* Collar height ~ Not a big fan of high/double height collars. I'd prefer a standard ACU Mandarin Collar Height.

* I like the velcro flap opening directly below the collar. I'd suggest having the loop side of the velcro facing the user. If the hook side was facing him/her and the collar was open, it may rub against the user's skin there, which would be unpleasant.

* The cordura reinforcements on the shoulders and arms ~ a nice touch, but I'd prefer it absent on my shirts. Perhaps only on the elbows (but that's because I want an all black shirt and it won't be that visually noticeable).

* In the past you mentioned that you weren't setup for zippers hence your hesitance for doing pockets. How's about a side entry upper arm pocket that can be sealed using velcro instead of a zipper?

* Pockets for foam inserts ~ I'd prefer those only in the elbow / forearms... and if possible made to a certain shape to accept certain pads. As for the collar and underarm pockets, not necessary for me.

* Shirt length ~ can this be adjusted to be shorter per buyer's request? A lot of shirts end up looking too long on me.

* Torso Tapering ~ can this be adjusted to be more or less tapered in the torso per buyer's request?

* Wrist cuffs. I like what I'm seeing there. As another option for the cuffs, would it be possible to get velcro-ed tabs (similar to those featured on many softshells out there)? Arc'Teryx, TAD Gear, SORD, as well as various other manufacturers, all have something like this on their jackets and I personally think it looks cool. It's a common feature on the products of several different manufacturers so I don't think it'd be breaking other companies' copyrights:

TAD Gear ~

 

Arc'Teryx ~

 

SORD ~

 

 

(Pics from militaryMorons.com)

 

All in all, though, this sample you've shown us really gives us a very good idea of what your company can produce. And if the shirts can be custom designed to each person's specifications I think you'll have a VERY successful product on your hands. I've asked a lot of questions simply to find out the limits of customization that are possible. For all I know you may decide that the above comments are beyond a certain threshold of customization... but it doesn't hurt to ask. And now that you've got this sample done... feel like taking an order ?

 

Nicely done!

 

Edit:

The pattern in this shirt ~ Is that a test print you've done for this sample? If so, it looks pretty damn good. I wonder if testing can be done to tune the colors to be more consistent between different types of materials?

 

Also heat sealing graphics onto the shirt ~ what constraints are there for this? Maximum dimensions? Colors? Vector vs. Pixel based imagery?

 

Thanks!

[Dom Hyde]

Wow ripready - that's really impressive: you designed, printed and assembled that in what, 3 or 4 days? Top score, fella!

 

I think that, pattern wise, common and popular camouflage designs should present no problem for you to use - they're so public domain now anyways, no one could sue you for using US or UK woodland: it's the default high-street fashion camo now! A minor change to the scale or shapes in these (or any other) pattern* should get you off any infringement hook. I can imagine a team in tiger stripe with their names and team numbers incorporated in the camo! It's a great idea.

 

Dom

 

*except my PenCott^TM pattern. It has secret algorithms that react to tinkering and piracy, and start up a thumping warning sound in a perpetrators head, eventually driving them insane. I call them Agrorythms^TM (patent pending).

[ripready]

Just dying to see this come to fruition

 

 

 

Very interesting and impressive. Some observations:

* I noticed that the polyester material on the arms is also used on the sides of the shirt's torso and that the loose drifit material only covers the front and back of the torso. Was this done for a particular reason? Personally I'd prefer the entire torso to be the loose drifit material.

 

-just purely for aesthetics like the Massif style shirt. extra labour required so if it really doesn't make a difference, I'll just remove them

 

* Collar height ~ Not a big fan of high/double height collars. I'd prefer a standard ACU Mandarin Collar Height.

 

-should be able to do a half collar as well as full collar but bear in mind the collar has slots so you can insert foam to protect your neck from shots

 

* I like the velcro flap opening directly below the collar. I'd suggest having the loop side of the velcro facing the user. If the hook side was facing him/her and the collar was open, it may rub against the user's skin there, which would be unpleasant.

 

-good point

 

* The cordura reinforcements on the shoulders and arms ~ a nice touch, but I'd prefer it absent on my shirts. Perhaps only on the elbows (but that's because I want an all black shirt and it won't be that visually noticeable).

 

- yeah I'm struggling a little bit with the aesthetics and function of the garment. I think the cordura affects the aesthtics greatly. So I got to figure that one out. Comments and sample pics from people are welcome!

 

* In the past you mentioned that you weren't setup for zippers hence your hesitance for doing pockets. How's about a side entry upper arm pocket that can be sealed using velcro instead of a zipper?

 

-yes I think side pockets are fine. I might consider adding these as a chargeable option as long as the size and location specifications are given to me

 

* Pockets for foam inserts ~ I'd prefer those only in the elbow / forearms... and if possible made to a certain shape to accept certain pads. As for the collar and underarm pockets, not necessary for me.

 

* Shirt length ~ can this be adjusted to be shorter per buyer's request? A lot of shirts end up looking too long on me.

 

- yes as long as the proper specs are given. However if there is a design on the garment, we do not resize the design to match the new proportions.

 

* Torso Tapering ~ can this be adjusted to be more or less tapered in the torso per buyer's request?

 

- yes as long as the proper specs are given.

 

* Wrist cuffs. I like what I'm seeing there. As another option for the cuffs, would it be possible to get velcro-ed tabs (similar to those featured on many softshells out there)? Arc'Teryx, TAD Gear, SORD, as well as various other manufacturers, all have something like this on their jackets and I personally think it looks cool. It's a common feature on the products of several different manufacturers so I don't think it'd be breaking other companies' copyrights:

TAD Gear ~

 

Arc'Teryx ~

 

SORD ~

 

 

(Pics from militaryMorons.com)

 

- laser cut tabs like the one in black above are what I would like to see but these add significantly to the cost of the garment. Will see what the price range ends up to be in the end.

 

All in all, though, this sample you've shown us really gives us a very good idea of what your company can produce. And if the shirts can be custom designed to each person's specifications I think you'll have a VERY successful product on your hands. I've asked a lot of questions simply to find out the limits of customization that are possible. For all I know you may decide that the above comments are beyond a certain threshold of customization... but it doesn't hurt to ask. And now that you've got this sample done... feel like taking an order ?

 

Nicely done!

 

Edit:

The pattern in this shirt ~ Is that a test print you've done for this sample? If so, it looks pretty damn good. I wonder if testing can be done to tune the colors to be more consistent between different types of materials?

 

- I'm no camouflage expert but don't you think the pattern is a little too sharp edged? Colours can be adjusted no problem. The pattern I used was a 10" x 10" tile that I just randomly restepped so it's not authentic by any means.

 

Also heat sealing graphics onto the shirt ~ what constraints are there for this? Maximum dimensions? Colors? Vector vs. Pixel based imagery?

 

- we have 2 options for heat sealing. Single colour vinyl and solvent ink printed onto vinyl (sort of like an iron on t-shirt print but with a vinyl backing). It can be as big as you want but remember heat sealing is stiff. For heat seal you always want vector based but you want to be careful that you don't get into small intricate details.

 

Thanks!

[ripready]

Next stage is to get feedback on how to improve the garment for production. Now comes the hard part

 

I'm going to start a new thread so please provide some constructive criticism in the new thread.

[uscmCorps]

* I noticed that the polyester material on the arms is also used on the sides of the shirt's torso and that the loose drifit material only covers the front and back of the torso. Was this done for a particular reason? Personally I'd prefer the entire torso to be the loose drifit material.

-just purely for aesthetics like the Massif style shirt. extra labour required so if it really doesn't make a difference, I'll just remove them

- Sweet... especially if it reduces the cost any.

 

* Collar height ~ Not a big fan of high/double height collars. I'd prefer a standard ACU Mandarin Collar Height.

-should be able to do a half collar as well as full collar but bear in mind the collar has slots so you can insert foam to protect your neck from shots

- Not interested in slots in the collar for foam protection. Some players might, but personally I like to minimize the garment to the bare necessities. If I never intend to put foam there, I'll ask to have them omitted from my shirt.

 

* I like the velcro flap opening directly below the collar. I'd suggest having the loop side of the velcro facing the user. If the hook side was facing him/her and the collar was open, it may rub against the user's skin there, which would be unpleasant.

-good point

- Awesome

 

* The cordura reinforcements on the shoulders and arms ~ a nice touch, but I'd prefer it absent on my shirts. Perhaps only on the elbows (but that's because I want an all black shirt and it won't be that visually noticeable).

- yeah I'm struggling a little bit with the aesthetics and function of the garment. I think the cordura affects the aesthtics greatly. So I got to figure that one out. Comments and sample pics from people are welcome!

- Yeah, with how potentially varied the many customers' color and pattern designs are, I imagine it'll be hard for you to get cordura colors that will work aesthetically and not distract from the overall look of the garment. Probably the only cases where it won't distract is when the cordura is the same solid color as the rest of the garment. Curious: Is it possible to print on the cordura or on a heavier weight and more durable fabric than the ripstop? Like a heavy weight cotton twill fabric? That's what Crye do.

 

* In the past you mentioned that you weren't setup for zippers hence your hesitance for doing pockets. How's about a side entry upper arm pocket that can be sealed using velcro instead of a zipper?

-yes I think side pockets are fine. I might consider adding these as a chargeable option as long as the size and location specifications are given to me

- Excellent! Please do do a pricing for this as I'd be very interested in finding out. I'd especially like to know if zippers are possible or not.

 

* Shirt length ~ can this be adjusted to be shorter per buyer's request? A lot of shirts end up looking too long on me.

- yes as long as the proper specs are given. However if there is a design on the garment, we do not resize the design to match the new proportions.

- That makes perfect sense.

 

* Torso Tapering ~ can this be adjusted to be more or less tapered in the torso per buyer's request?

- yes as long as the proper specs are given.

- Cool

 

* Wrist cuffs. I like what I'm seeing there. As another option for the cuffs, would it be possible to get velcro-ed tabs (similar to those featured on many softshells out there)? Arc'Teryx, TAD Gear, SORD, as well as various other manufacturers, all have something like this on their jackets and I personally think it looks cool. It's a common feature on the products of several different manufacturers so I don't think it'd be breaking other companies' copyrights

- laser cut tabs like the one in black above are what I would like to see but these add significantly to the cost of the garment. Will see what the price range ends up to be in the end.

- If this is possible ... that's a HUGE plus for me. Laser Cut velcro-ed tabs looks VERY high end IMHO.

 

The pattern in this shirt ~ Is that a test print you've done for this sample? If so, it looks pretty damn good. I wonder if testing can be done to tune the colors to be more consistent between different types of materials?

- I'm no camouflage expert but don't you think the pattern is a little too sharp edged? Colours can be adjusted no problem. The pattern I used was a 10" x 10" tile that I just randomly restepped so it's not authentic by any means.

- Yeah, it's probably a little too sharp edged, but blurring it won't be a problem. The simple fact that you're able to print such sharp edges and retain such detail is a technically awesome. When it comes to printing for a customer, the sharpness of the pattern will need to be taken into consideration, but it's great to know that you can do it!

 

Also heat sealing graphics onto the shirt ~ what constraints are there for this? Maximum dimensions? Colors? Vector vs. Pixel based imagery?

- we have 2 options for heat sealing. Single colour vinyl and solvent ink printed onto vinyl (sort of like an iron on t-shirt print but with a vinyl backing). It can be as big as you want but remember heat sealing is stiff. For heat seal you always want vector based but you want to be careful that you don't get into small intricate details.

- Excellent ... I have all that ready and waiting!

 

I also want to add that looking over the photos, the stitching appears to be very nice and good quality. This was nice to see. A lot of garments by different manufacturers can be very hit or miss. This definitely feels "hit".