m4a1 556 Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Some background information: My friend has a V2 guarder reinforced gearbox with all guarder internals. It is properly shimmed and works great with a guarder SP120 spring and his 9.6v 2000+ mah NICD battery. However, whenever I install a guarder SP130 the gearbox will not properly cycle and the piston will lock in the rear most position. It's not his battery as I have tried some really power 9.6v batteries and it has still not worked, and I was able to get this spring to work in an extra stock TM V2 gearbox I have w/ metal bushings (also broke the shell after a few rounds, but that's to be expected). Does anyone have any ideas? I removed the spacers from his piston head thinking there might not be enough room for the spring to compress all the way but that still did not do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Blackweell! Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 What sort of motor is being used? With an SP130 spring the motor may not have enough torque to overcome the maximum forces when the spring is most compressed and cycle properly. Although I would imagine if a fully upgraded gearbox is being used a good motor is being used also... Link to post Share on other sites
ertgunner Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 1) is the spring tight against the spring guide or is it loose ? ( if it is loose , it is a problem if it is too loose) 2) what piston head ? spring guide ? Link to post Share on other sites
m4a1 556 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 Fairly new TM EG1000. This motor turned over the TM gearbox with this same spring without problem. Link to post Share on other sites
m4a1 556 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 1) is the spring tight against the spring guide or is it loose ? ( if it is loose , it is a problem if it is too loose) 2) what piston head ? spring guide ? I'm not sure what you mean by tight against the spring guide. It's very hard to get the spring+spring guide into place int he gearbox because of the tension but the spring guide slides in and out of the spring easily. Guarder polycarb piston head and guarder steel spring guide w/ bearings. Link to post Share on other sites
ertgunner Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 i dont see a problem i have been using the same setup in my saw for a while .... maybe AOE ? Link to post Share on other sites
Stealthbomber Posted November 20, 2009 Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 1) is the spring tight against the spring guide or is it loose ? ( if it is loose , it is a problem if it is too loose) 2) what piston head ? spring guide ? I'm not sure what you mean by tight against the spring guide. It's very hard to get the spring+spring guide into place int he gearbox because of the tension but the spring guide slides in and out of the spring easily. Guarder polycarb piston head and guarder steel spring guide w/ bearings. He's wondering if the spring is a tight fit over the spring guide. I'd also ask if the spring is even slightly tight fitting inside the piston? If the spring is binding on either the spring guide or inside the piston it can cause this sort of problem. Link to post Share on other sites
The General Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 I have to say pulling what is in effect an M140 spring with a EG1000 motor is really a bit much. I am thinking the gear ratio on the other mechbox perhaps allowed this motor to pull what is a fairly big spring. TM EG1000 motors don't really rate in my experience as a high torque motor. For a set up like that I would be looking for something else to pull that spring. Either way, I doubt that motor is happy. Better a set up that is happy and ticking over than one that is straining itself! Also, discharge capacity. I fitted a G&P M120 motor to two guns running 350 fps springs and while they worked just fine on 8.4v and 9.6v mini batts with stock motors (CA High Torque and a EG1000) after 200-300 shots with this motor the exact same thing happened as you describe. The batteries could not provide the required draw. Now there are many factors that could be at play here and is probably a combination of a little of this and a little of that, that is causing this spring to be too much for this set up. Have you fitted Deans? A Mosfet, better wiring, is the mechbox well shimmed, motor height good? Mechbox well lubed... and so on. You need to maxamise what you have to work with, but I still think that poor motor is over worked! Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted November 21, 2009 Report Share Posted November 21, 2009 rather than removing spacers from the piston try removing the bearings from the piston head and or the bearings from the spring guide to free up a little more room, you dont need them and it will give it a little more room to compress fully. the fact that the motor turns one gearbox but not the other makes me think the eg1000 is fine, you need to look at part incompatabilitys with that spring, it may have one extra coil in length to add the extra strength and in this setup be to difficult to compress.. if theres only 1.5 inchs of room and 1.6inchs of spring at full compression its not gunna beable to complete its full cycle. sometimes parts just dont work together you need to try different combos if you have tested it in another gearbox and found it to be fine! only other thing might be shimming. shimmings an art what might have been fine in one setup, now that its requiring more speed to turn and less restance to complete the cycle, what you might have got away with before now might be too much resistance to allow it to complete, i know from experience the bushings from guarder usually require less shims than most. im not saying its this way in your case just something to be mindfull of. Link to post Share on other sites
m4a1 556 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thanks for all the responses. I'll work around with things this next week and see what I can figure out. Link to post Share on other sites
m4a1 556 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I think I might try upgrading the motor as I don't really like the response time as it is now. What would you guys recommend for this setup? I was looking at the guarder M160. Also would the NICD 9.6v 2200 mah battery be good for this setup or would we need to upgrade that as well? Thanks guys! Link to post Share on other sites
ertgunner Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 for the sp160 i would suggest 300% torque up , magnum motor, 12v or 11.1v, mosfet, systema mechbox shell Link to post Share on other sites
m4a1 556 Posted November 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 for the sp160 i would suggest 300% torque up , magnum motor, 12v or 11.1v, mosfet, systema mechbox shell It's a SP130 Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Y Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 the motors as fast as the current you put through it, its a 2200 mah 9.6v, if you want true fast trigger response on stronger springs you have to be willing to make the jump to higher voltage... everything revolves around the current. a lipo 11.1v is cheap, borrow one off somebody to test with and see if you like the new trigger response. Link to post Share on other sites
ertgunner Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 It's a SP130 but you said m160 ??? like Rich said 11.1v lipo deans connector mosfet magnum motor Link to post Share on other sites
Col-Psycho Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 deans, high torque motor, proper shimming. mosfet and such is nice, but not necessary to get it turning. go with the simple solutions before splashing out loads of cash and making a lot of work for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
ertgunner Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 deans, high torque motor, proper shimming. mosfet and such is nice, but not necessary to get it turning. go with the simple solutions before splashing out loads of cash and making a lot of work for yourself. what i got from what he said is that its working but low rof ... but i can be retarded Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.