Air Rig for WA M4

[Stealthbomber]

but if you are going to accept an external rigged M4 then why spend silly money on some banged up old JAC thats passed thru umpteen hands, is NBB and often has a would be the seller delusional enough to expect rocking horse pooh prices for it, or a bone stock GBB SP that needs a complete work-over to make it skirmishable?

 

not when 300 bucks down on the table buys a cheap WA clone and the steel internals to fill it with, and you're good to go after a mag mod

I agree with you but I'm sure people will be queuing up to point out that you always have a huge hassle with changing mags with this sort of system.

 

Funny really, I gotta admit, I DO just rule out anything with a proton-pack attached.

Thing is, that DOES just mean that a GIM rifle shoould be just that. To me.

In winter I just go back to using an AEG.

 

This kind of thing is sort of neither here nor there IMO.

Classics are one thing and GIM guns are another.

This kind of thing is kinda the worst of both systems in some ways.

 

I guess that, ideally, what we really need is a WA-style system that can accept a feed from an extrenal rig.

Either that or, at least, some kind of adaptor that'd allow you to reload the gun easily. Maybe a fake mag that you could load AEP magazines into the base of?

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticising this. I just don't think it's a particularly big whup and I also think it still leaves huge flaws with regard to reloading.

[chownsy]

I agree with you but I'm sure people will be queuing up to point out that you always have a huge hassle with changing mags with this sort of system.

 

Funny really, I gotta admit, I DO just rule out anything with a proton-pack attached.

Thing is, that DOES just mean that a GIM rifle shoould be just that. To me.

In winter I just go back to using an AEG.

 

This kind of thing is sort of neither here nor there IMO.

Classics are one thing and GIM guns are another.

This kind of thing is kinda the worst of both systems in some ways.

 

I guess that, ideally, what we really need is a WA-style system that can accept a feed from an extrenal rig.

Either that or, at least, some kind of adaptor that'd allow you to reload the gun easily. Maybe a fake mag that you could load AEP magazines into the base of?

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticising this. I just don't think it's a particularly big whup and I also think it still leaves huge flaws with regard to reloading.

 

 

tbh with a quick disconnect Co2 adaptor you can change mags quickly (only problem then being is that you have a bit sticking out the side the mag that wont go into a pouch)

 

But with the OP's design of a 500 rd mag you can either fill the mag up in the field or just carry the mags in a bigger pouch as you need less mags.

 

 

I do like the idea of a quick change mag system (like AEP style)

 

[snorkelman]

Pouring a bundle of BBs into a dual mag setup isnt exactly arduous, nor is switching out single low cap mags that are hooked up via a QD fitting - even allowing for cost of multiple GIM mags its still cheaper than sourcing whats left of the decent JAC mags to run a JAC on

 

Given the structure of GHK mag it wouldnt be too difficult to engineer a basic removable low cap clip of BBs - ie where magshell and valve block remain in the lower receiver and attached to the hose, so that just the stripper clips need removed and replaced for a reload

 

I dont see the point in drawing a line in the sand and treating the two as mutually exlusive camps, not when one of them can be readily converted to run off the same power source as the other, turn in comparable performance, with additional functionality and at a much lower cost.

 

I know a couple of folks have ventured that the 'attraction of GIM is low cap milsim' Well aye, it might be for some but its a false assumption to say thats the attraction for everyone. Ultimately the 'attraction' is what floats the boat of the person handing over their bucks to pay for it and wiling to field it, if low cap milsim featues low in their list of attractions thats their perogative.

 

[Seraphim989]

Not all classics are expensive! Jacs easily fit into the $300 category that you mentioned. And I challenge you to show me a single GIM gun thats getting the 300' ACCURATE shots you can easily get with a classic. Quite frankly, f you aren't in the market for a classic, then you dont know what they cost or how they work. Theres no need to go running around spewing information thats utterly wrong.

 

Stealthbomber: How come you dont like the external rig? Is it a weight thing, a realism thing, or are you worried about it catching on things?

[Stealthbomber]

Stealthbomber: How come you dont like the external rig? Is it a weight thing, a realism thing, or are you worried about it catching on things?

All the above.

 

I know it's not a practical issue and it's just a personal thing.

It's the same as with battery slings; I know I could use one to supply more juice to my AEG but instead I struggle to squeeze tiny, powerful, LiPo's into them.

 

I dunno. I just like the idea of an airsoft gun being a tidy, self-contained unit.

Speaking as an ex paintball and lasertag player maybe I'm just kinda done with the idea of hoses and cables and wires and any kind of junk to get tangled in?

 

FWIW, rather hypocritically, I do actually have a lot of time for "classics" and the way they operate. I just wouldn't want to skirmish with one.

[ThaFlash]

The WA M4 system is very different from a JAC. Until you find a GBB JAC M4A1 with adjustable hopup, realistic Bolt Carrier Group, realistic hammer system and realistic buffer system, all for $300 new (or even $600 new) how about you keep your comparisons relevant.

 

You can make all sorts of useless comparisons between the two because they are completely different systems. It's really tempting to come out and bash the "classic" system in the same manner as you, but it's also just as pointless.

[Stealthbomber]

You can make all sorts of useless comparisons between the two because they are completely different systems. It's really tempting to come out and bash the "classic" system in the same manner as you, but it's also just as pointless.

 

I don't think anybody IS comparing them except noting that there's some irony in hooking an external air supply to a GIM gun.

 

As I already said, I reckon it'd be nice if somebody did make a modern GBBR which used an external supply.

HPA undoubtedly IS the most practical way to power a gas gun but very few of the old classics were exactly works of art, design-wise IMO.

They were designed to load and fire BBs and nothing else, a lot like the first GBB pistols.

Things have moved on now. We expect our GBB pistols and rifles to replicate the internal workings of a real gun as much as possible, field strip like a real gun, cycle like a real gun and operate like a real gun.

 

Alas, to most people that also means GIM as well.

[snorkelman]

Not all classics are expensive! Jacs easily fit into the $300 category that you mentioned. And I challenge you to show me a single GIM gun thats getting the 300' ACCURATE shots you can easily get with a classic. Quite frankly, f you aren't in the market for a classic, then you dont know what they cost or how they work. Theres no need to go running around spewing information thats utterly wrong.

 

and I challenge you to show me a stock JAC that can do a 300' accurate shot Straight out the box as JAC intended they're lucky to hit 70 to 90 feet with any sort of precision, you want to add an LRB etc sure but then you arent talking a 300 buck JAC at the usual inflated OMG its a classic prices..

 

 

I already have JACs thanks and I already know how they work - brand new in the box M16VN limited and M16A1 Limited, Front Line Custom M16A2DX and Sheriff Custom XM177 Limited (again unfired in the box) I picked them up for buttons from Japan and frankly collectability value aside, thats all they were worth. Go trawling for LRBs etc sure you can end up with a lovely accurate non-blowback rifle but all the LRBs knocking around tended to be tuned to perform with heavier weight BBs at beyond UK limits

 

the plastic internal'd version of the mags always sucked goats (even when new old stock), and the build quality of the lesser (non DX and Limited) models would have had a hard time puting a cheap springer to shame

 

 

same goes for escorts - still have SP XM177, SP Carbine (with full AS4L workover), Escort MP5, Escort A-spec, Shoei Mp44, shoei Mg42, and an M60 straight out the box an SPM16 needs a crapload of work done to it to make it feildable it has no range to speak of from its fixed hop, has serious power drop off in auto without 3rd oring mod etc.

 

Granted Justin may do a better/far more prompt job than andrew over at AS4L used to manage but whatever way you swing it an SP M16 isnt cheap by time its brought up to snuff and certainly isnt ever going to be a 300 foot gun. Throw that money at it and you still have some pretty mediocre externals to deal with - nice enough for the time period they were released during, but not really up to scratch with modern sutff. If recoil is an important feature of what they're after Id recommend a WA M4 hooked to their external rig over the SP

 

someone wants an NBB M4 sure gve a JAC a try but they'd better make damn sure its in good nick and hasnt been passed from pillar to post, better make sure they've got a source for an LRB if it doesnt have one already fitted cos its a wallhanger without one, and better hope they can pick up decent mags for it. I personally dont see them doing it for anywhere near 300 bucks wih a limited or DX as the base gun.

 

[MODDAN]

↑ Nice collection you've got there...

But to get back on topic: the main reasons why I made a HPA conversion for my WE Armalites was not to make them use that system solely. The main reason was in fact that I wanted to play with my guns at low cost. Gas cans cost money. CO2 cartridges cost money. When using a compressor and hooking up the hose to a HPA converted WE gas mag, I can empty a mag to almost no cost at all. Only the electricity needed to rebuild the pressure. It is also good in order to set your hop-up before a game, checking if new upgrade parts do their job, and so on. That was the main reason why I made the conversion.

Furthermore, my C-MAG project will utilize HPA for two main reasons: it's hard to empty 100-120 rounds on one fill of an WE gas or CO2 magazine. When combat power is needed, I'll utilize my C-MAG with some sort of integrated HPA tank. Or I'll just carry a tank in my Camelback/Miscellaneous.

Lastly it gets pretty cold here up north. We have something called "snow" and generally cold weather during one half of the year. If I wish to extend my skirmishing season slightly I will need some form of HPA system. I tested my WE M16 in the cold, with a CO2 mag, and it did not perform very well. At least not on auto. Hence I might as well have some fun while freezing, and hence the HPA C-MAG.

[Ion]

I'm prolly beating a dead horse here, but figured I'd throw my 2 cents in here.

 

I also don't really think we can compare them either though. They are too different IMO. Both meet different needs.

 

I looked at buying a classic for a long time, the external air rig was no problem, being a paintballer also, I used an external rig for my Ion for a year or so. The SPs really attracted me because of the blowback and the ablility to have a hop-up, the metal body was a plus too. But the more I heard about their problems, the more I lost intrest. Looked into the JACs and Asahis for awile too, the plastic body was a turnoff, and the lack of aftermarket metal bodies was a letdown also. So I decided to stick with my GBBR.

 

I also have a JG GBBR and have an upgraded AGM on the way. It'll be fun to see what I can do with it. With the Prime Hop-up, nice TBB, nice bucking, h-nub, and a few other things, I have no doubt that you could get into the longer ranges, maybe not 300ft+ like LRBs, but you get my point.

I also chose it for the realism. But you won't see me using it if its freezing outside. I'll use the sewing machine for that stuff.

 

And snorkelman, lemme know if you ever get tired of the Shoei MP44 and MG42.

 

The idea is cool, but I would much rather it come out of the pistol grip or stock, and not the mag.