Stirling Airsoft

[Nazio]

Whole our group of 13 players have participated in event Operation Red Wing by Stirling Airsoft. Hearing lot of good opinions we wanted to participate in something what will be as realistic as can be. Enthusiasm was huge but what we found on site was way below the claims of Stirling Airsoft.

 

We arrived at about 1:00 am the day before the event. I have to say that everything related to signing in and alocation our group in our camp was well organised and executed very smooth, regardles of late hour. As role of taliban fighters we were called in for briefing and introduction of H&S rules. Then straight after we were briefed by "Afghan village players" who was suppose to be our guides and leaders in fight against Americans. Since we wanted to play as realistic as we could, there were few unclear things.

 

Q. Can we attack US base ? A. No! Atleast until night.

Q. Can we use spies in US uniforms ? A. No!

 

We were told that leaders of Afghan village wish to know what is the strengh of "enemy" and asked us to make recon patrol. Since "Aghan" role players without weapons were not to be considered as "Talibans" and US role players should not shoot at them, We decided to send few of our guys unarmed. Time was passing by, and we could not gain any proper intel. Wasting the time by walking there and back, trying to meet "Afghan" leaders demands. Every each of us was almost boiling from will of airsofting (not surpriced this is why we went there). But instead we were following orders and just wasting the time. Tactic have changed when we came across of 4 men patrol and decided to take them prisoners. Having 6 men armed patrol just few meters away, I have took 4 our guys from unarmed patrol and went back to our base. Got armed and flew back as quick as we could, what was not easy task because we were on outscirts of the Blackhill 640 meters above sea level. Untill we were back, 2 of our unarmed spies were arrested and taken to US base. Second armed unit decided to proceed to our base as we were suppose attend some kind of training provided to us by "Afghan" leaders. I didnt want to leave the hill just when we have reached the top. My group of 4 players continued the patrol, and eventualy after 2 hours spent on the top and observing "enemy" movements we did go back to our base. There was also some kind of training in making the trap for US forces. And the time was tick tack tick tack, passing by. It was later than 15:30 when we finally went on our positions preapring surpirce attack. We have wasted there more than one and half hour waiting for nothing. Neither US patrol nor vehicle turned up. One of our guys went closer to US base and tried to provoke them. But vehicle which was leaving US base just stopped and then reversed. With the time we grew more and more suspicious. But then something happened, something what was out of control and unexpected. One of our chaps claimed to be cold, went to our nearby camp. He wanted to get some warmer clothing. As he was there US patrol went to our camp. So we decided to take initiative in our own hands. Imedietly 2 patrols were sent along the road and behind of our base. It was me who commanded our chaps, we simply have flanked them and wiped out. Losses on our side - 0. No hits whatsoever. May be because whole assault took us 4 minuts from the beggining of exchange the fire oto the end. Took prisoners and went with them to meet our "Afghan" leaders as they wanted to intorigate them. If have not notice very realistic scenario, at least for now. We have met them and gave away the prisoners, but "leaders" claimed there is another ptraol closing in from another direction. We splited our force in two halfs and left one guard with prisoners and leaders. As we have attacked US patrol, our guard been shot by one of "Afghan" playing guys and told not to call medic (but hang on a second this is the rule of the game introduced to us at the briefing). Rest of the group unaware of what happened to our chap, was involved in assault. I would say this was not an assault, this was complete surprice to US role counter players. I have led the attack from the flank. From my involvement have passed 3.5 minutes and I was advancing towards enemy, gaining terrain. From patrol of 8 - 10 players may be 3 was still in fight. Rest of the were hit, our losses - 0. Then suddenly somebody from our group called for retreat. We did proceed with the order and reversed. But then I have spoted one of SA guys who was out of the game due to been shoot, commanding the team via comms. Not big deal may be, but far from fair play. After all we have found that we were tricked and not told whole scenario honestly. This caused all of us felt disappointed. "Afghan" role players did cooperate with Striling Airsoft as US force, and they did it from the beginning. We were made blind and the target was for us to waste the time during the day. Technical advantage of SA, such as nightvission or thermovission (this is what we were told) made absolutely impossible to play during the night, but during the day while we did present the danger SA decided to make an advantage by creating missleading informations for counter players, creating weaponary advantage as "Afghan" role players did coop with US forces since the beginning. But I dont believe this have happened because of something related to the scenario such as advantage of US forces. It happened because guys know each other, so the task of "Afghan" role players was to make us wasting the time during the day and leaving initiative for SA until night. When I did realise this and shared with rest of our group, every each of us felt even more disappointed and we agreed that night time is for sleep not for airsofting and giving more chances for SA to be self satisfied from "victory". We went sleep and apart one visit of guys who was shooting everything around, nothing happened til morning. In early hours one of our chaps was shot whilst being unarmed (the rule not to shoot at civilians ) Next morning we went to attack US base but not considered everything and off course been wiped out. Please note it was next morning - means at the end of the day we could attack US base during the day time instead what been told at the beginning of milsim the day before. We also noticed some players from "US forces" dressed as arabs spying. So at the end of everything we have realised that the rules of milsim were simply like that:

 

What Stirling Airsoft can do, counter players cant do.

 

Not nice gentelmen and not fair playing. It was enough to say "dont trust anybody apart your team" and milsim would be the one to remember for everybody. But instead, you chose to bent your own rules and left customers with taste of disappointment.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Nazio

[Tufty]

Nazio I'm sorry but I have to completely disagree with you on this. This wans'nt my first Stirling Airsoft event but it was my first Stirling Airsoft combat mission and I found it to be one of the best events I've ever attended, I was one of the Rangers and 2i/c of callsign 3-5 who were the Rangers captured by yourselves our patrol was 6 strong and I was a good little firefight before you took us all out and captured us.

 

Most of the Rangers were made up of people who had not attended stirling events before including one team of 16 players and also another 3 in my callsign. All of those I spoke to on sunday at endex told me how they had throughly enjoyed the event and would be back for more.

 

As for not shooting people when they are asleep its a 25HOUR game ie it runs non stop from start to finish and there are no safe zones, this was stated in the briefing and you should have made allowance for this by stagging on and off like we did in our FOB.

 

With these type of events you get out what you put in and if you are not enjoying it maybe you are not giving your all, but just giving up and going home early in a huff and speeding through the game area is not the best way of doing things.

 

These type of games are not about shooting lots and lots of rounds and getting into big firefights. They are designed to be as realistic as can be, here is a description taken of Stirling Airsofts pages on another forum

 

One of the main types of events run by Stirling Airsoft is the 'Combat mission'

 

These are typically one off scenarios which contain multiple objectives for both sides of the event to achieve.

 

While generally much smaller than the larger AOW events the Combat mission is usually the toughest and most realistic military simulation exercise Stirling offer. Operating in all weather conditions with all those attending on hard routine (totally self suffienct in areas with little to no comforts) these events rely on those attending to think on their feet, work well in teams and be able to keep going to get the objectives compleated no matter what they may come up against.

 

Setting up OP's, conducting CTR's or reacting to events as a QRF, combat missions offer the participants a constant challange. Combat missions normally require those involved to be able to navigate by map reading (this is taught upon request), be proficient in radio comms procedure (VP) as well as crossing trenchs, rivers, barb wire fences, climbing mountains and other such realistic aspects that you would need to overcome and adapt to if you were part of a real life small military unit.

Operating through the night means that during combat missions we will usually have a stag system setup, this is to ensure that people can all get some rest but the reality of the event continues - if there is an attack then everyone springs into action. Being willing to do your shift on stag, be willing to stand too at 5 AM just like the Bristish army still do as the sun rises as this is the most likely time the enemy will attack.

 

Also Afghan players did co-operate with the US Rangers as our callsign spent alot of saturday engaging in "Hearts & Minds" operations with the Afgahn people so we could gain their trust and they could gain ours. This was all part of the game and was one of the many aspects I enjoyed (it cost me loads of chocolate and biscuits though ).

 

As for your comment:-

 

What Stirling Airsoft can do, counter players cant do.

 

Not nice gentelmen and not fair playing. It was enough to say "dont trust anybody apart your team" and milsim would be the one to remember for everybody. But instead, you chose to bent your own rules and left customers with taste of disappointment

 

I thinks thats a load of rubbish and have never experienced anything like this on any Stirling event.

 

and remember Stirling Airsoft Combat Missions are designed to be as real as it gets. There is NO substitute!!

Edited May 4, 2010 by Tufty

[Sleepy_UK]

Like Tufty above i and my team enjoyed the weekend immensley!.... we too were apart of callsign '35' who were captured by yourselves for that short duration.

 

For us three being new to any kind of stirling event didnt know what to expect. Having spoke to Matt a few times prior to the event I had an idea of what to expect.... but god damn it was sooo much more. Having spoke to Matt prior to the event he told me kind of what to expect, one thing being not to expect a full on firefight all weekend as thats not the idea... the idea was to make it as real as it gets... it would be fair to say i came expecting no contacts so when we did, and we did have a few; they would be good which they were.

 

Nazio: As for you guys not being able to attack the base?... well i dont know what you were told by whom but we pulled stag all night... i had 3hrs sleep sat night before up on stag in anticipation for an assault on the base but it never came. Never the less we cracked on with it and continued to love it.

 

In all my years of airsoft, 4 years milsims. Stirling Airsoft have provided me with something no other place has given in terms or realism, teamwork and the amount of time and effort the staff put into running an event like this.

Its an understatement to say I had a good time as I wish I could take part in event like that every weekend but that would kill me... 9hr patrols in full kit up and down the black hills, i was nearly on the floor ... but you know what If i could I would.

 

I'd like to thank all of the Sterling staff for the Event as it was something else in every aspect, you can certainly expect to see us again in the near future

 

Also a big thanks to callsign 35... Liam Ian and Andy, all top fella's... accepted us three FNGs straight away, very welcoming and approachable which is much appreciated. always checking up on us making sure we're ok which again we appreciated...

 

and thank you to all the afghan/taliban forces for keeping charecter the whole weekend... with out you guys doing that it wouldnt have made the event work!

 

See you at an event soon

 

Sleepy

[SAV]

Sorry Nazio, I completely disagree with you!

 

I was one of the 16 guys who made the long trip from Norwich for this event (all regulars at Gunman Airsoft Norwich) and thought that this was one of the most well orgnaised and thought out games that I've ever played. As a member of US Ranger callsign 3-3, I was involved in some things I've never done in airsoft before, such as a long O.P (in the farm ruin watching 3-5 get captured ) , another example being on the main gate of the FOB talking to the 'locals' and giving out ID cards.

 

Regarding the FOB being untouchable, I adopt the phrase "Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained". Youl guys didn't even try! We were all on stag all night waiting for some kind of attack to come and it didn't. If we'd have known you'd all gone to bed in some form of protest we could've too! Doing the 2-4 stag wasn't exactly the highlight of the weekend, but it was a laugh! Regarding the thermal camera....I think it was only switched on a handfull of times, when someone on stag heard something suspicious and only then if the nighvision couldn't offer any help....it wasn't like every man had a set of NV. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but there were only a couple of them. I was also gutted that I didn't get to use any tracer rounds! was looking forward to that!

 

Regarding the general game, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the planning, the renamed map locations, the intel...everything! The firefights, when they did occur (only got into 3 all weekend, and only emptied 7 of the 12 mags I was carrying) thought they were well worth the wait and were intense. What didn't I enjoy? The hills! Compared to what we're used to in flat, flat Norfolk they were more like mountains! Did love the game site though...no restrictions on where you could and couldn't go, so much scope for potential ambushes and such like. Most surreal moment? Civvie cars and ppl walking through the game site, and not blinking an eyelid to us with our guns and taliban guys running around...god know what they were thinking!!!!

 

I know next time I quite fancy giving the bad guy role a go....I think there's so much more scope for what you could do. I know that as a US Ranger on this game, we were tightly bound by engagement rules (and our command - in the case of wanting to go and rescue 3-5 and being ordered to go back to the O.P). I would've cetainly done some recce on the FOB before doing any attack. Regarding the ill fated taliban attack on the FOB I do have to ask, what were you guys thinking? All running down the road like that one after the other? one word is suicide! There were only about 10-15 of us in the FOB at the time (all other US Forces, already having being deployed in the combat zone), and with a bit of recon and a multiple point attack you would've had a better chance of taking us.

 

Rant over!

 

At the end of the day, this was a well run, well thought out event and I know that I, and members of the team in which I play, will almost certainly be back for more!

[tricky666]

well what to say just a quick one as work looms i was the point of contact with mat for 16 guys booking as us rangers i have to say from the word go mat made things veryclear regarding what was expected from my guys ande what we could expect from the game almost putting people off but certainley making them think about things . I will say one thing i never though we would move up and down around and around and around that bl**dy vally but the more my squad did the better it got as for night is for sleeping no airsoft lol as above dont book a 25hr event which by the way the 16 of us from norwich started on friday afternoon yep that means 2 nights of stag = 4hrs sleep both nights lol . All i can say is thanks to matt alex and all the guys for making this the best event yet will defo be back oh by the way that was our fist stirling game ever

[Webby]

As the Rangers Radio Operator, I had a great weekend, even if I didn't fire a shot until gone 9am on Sunday morning.

 

Perhaps the questions and answers that you pointed out may have been mis-interpreted. That's all I can think of. Our callsign 3-1 were on the horn to me constantly with reports of approaching locals "can't make out whether they are armed" all afternoon and evening, you didn't have to attack us to make us on a razor sharp edge all evening and night.

 

Thermal was used at about 10:30-11pm on the Saturday night when the Ranger IC was trying to make out a feint white glow down on the road (which turned out to be the pick-up trucks engine block still emitting heat) NV goggles (other than the Seals) were used primarily by myself and the Ranger IC, purely for NAV around the camp, and looking at the radio/comms controls/maps in no light in the back of the Landy,( in which time no assault was made so they did not assist in any way)

[eddyboydude]

What's that? Nazio... A game of airsoft in a huge boundary free valley on the edge of the Brecon Beacons?

 

... groups roleplaying as Afghan tribesmen and Taliban warriors. Those groups making alliances and then breaking them, switching sides like real afghans do to suit there own needs.

 

... An organic scenario that runs a straight 25 hours with no dedicated safe zones...

 

... a large group of US Rangers to fight from Friday night onwards.

 

... People with Night vision and Thermal Imaging devices, even an authentic UAV Drone

 

... Yeah that sounds terrible mate, shame on Stirling Airsoft for putting on such a rubbish event.... Jokes!!!

 

I have been to many Stirling Combat Missions, initially as a punter and for the last year as a member of the Stirling team. So I know how much work goes on behind the scenes to ensure all attendees at Combat Missions are able to have an even sided great experience if that is what they have come for.... There is no set outcome or conspiracy to the game and it's totally up to the individual/team to what they get out of the experience, you get out what you put in as the saying goes...

 

As for not being able to attack certain areas at certain times is news to me, if your leader made a tactical decision not to attack the FOB, then that is his choice, wether you follow his orders or disobey them is up to the individual, that is what adds to the organic nature of a combat mission.

 

As for night time is for sleeping... It's a 25 hour combat Mission, designed to give you a taste of what it's like in the real military, with sentry duty throughout the night and getting some kip when and where you can. This I believe was all explained, several times.

 

I personally managed to doze in a small wet depression high up on the hill around 3 o' clock in the morning for 60 mins after tabbing out of the FOB at last light carrying a large radio and all the other kit needed for our operation. Which included Recce's, CTR's, Raids and snatching the Taliban commander.... Fooking awesome.

 

Now I understand that a Combat Mission is not for all airsofters, some really take to it and others don't, some just want to hose people with Hi-caps, others are happy to patrol for hours without firing a shot, maybe you didn't take to it mate.

 

As a former Royal Marines Commando, having served nearly 10 years... if you want a taste of a real military operation/exercise, then I don't know of any other organisation that provides that as accurately as Matt and the team at Stirling do in their Combat Missions.

 

If you want to hose during daylight hours only, then go down the road to your local Skirmish site, but if you want to get the full experience in the valley, then ask questions, find out what your leaders plan is, where you fit into it and organise yourself and your kit for a 25 hour period out on the ground, is my advice.

 

I hope this has made you look at the Combat Mission in a different light Nazio, we are incredibly lucky to have the Valley to play in and it can be a fantastic and rewarding experience when approached with the right attitude.

 

Cheers.

 

Ed.

Edited May 6, 2010 by eddyboydude

[-Angel-]

I don't think his complaint is against the slow and tactical style of play, I think hes saying that there is one rule for regulars and staff, and one rule for first timers. While you can expect a similated combat situation to shift and evolve, moving the goal posts on a whim does get frustrating over time.

 

Obviously guys who have been playing this type of event for a long time will be better equipped to play at night (NV) and more accustomed to stagging or taking orders. But it DOES reinforce the "them and us" division further. Patrolling blind, only to be ambushed or out-manoeuvred because of NV isn't enjoyable. Airsoft, regardless of how "realistic" it is, should still be enjoyable.

 

To qualify my comments slightly, i've been to 2 Stirling weekends and can identify with some of what the OP is saying. On balance I had some good times at the events, but plenty of bad times along with it.

[eddyboydude]

Angel... The regulars and staff are equipped properly because we love playing this kind of game and have spent our hard earned cash on the right kit so we can play throughout the 25 hour period. We don't want to get our heads down, we love playing in the middle of the night.

 

What do you suggest we give those without NV ours?

 

Mate after my first game, all I wanted to do was become a regular or even better a member of the Stirling team. At no point during my first combat mission did I think I was treated differently a them and us, in fact my team was given most of the top taskings, including OPing, CTRing, setting up the assualt start line and leading the attack at first light on the enemy stronghold on the sunday morning. Please note, this mission was in a January mission, we stayed out on the ground all night in zero visability in freezing torrential rain. Like i said... Combat Missions are not for everyone.

 

This moving the goal posts keeps coming up, like I said if your commander decides to change his plan then that is up to him, at no time were the goal posts changed by the staff... we were all too busy tabbing up the mountain and carrying out a covert mission all night... I feel a real sense of jealousy and paranoia here, but that is nothing new.

Edited May 6, 2010 by eddyboydude

[-Angel-]

I'm not suggesting that NV should be handed out to all and sundry, but its pretty gauling being taken apart by individuals or teams all night, simply because they've got £1k+ to drop on NV. And i'm perfectly well equipped for poor weather and enjoy maning an OP as much as being in a fire fight, so theres no issue there.

 

I suppose if you want to put my observations down to paranoia or jealousy thats up to you. All i can say, is that I disagree and I have experienced the attitudes I described.

[eddyboydude]

mate were you even at this event?

Edited May 6, 2010 by eddyboydude

[farrasdevell]

I was with the ranger team for this even and have a few pennies to place here.

Having done it i know what the real thing is and yes for the rangers this was pretty spot on for a millitary operation (good and bad parts)

As an experienced larp event operator i am also well qualified know what makes a good event for 'players'.

 

From where i watch the weekend from my team saw most of the action take place. Stirlings plot seemed to either fail or just not happen. Not really their fault it is murpheys law but with the added complication of 'players'. what they did not do was have enough in the way of contingency plans and alternative routes to their final encounter set out.

 

I have heard varying arguments via my team liaison as to why things did not work and i was highly surprised to find out about the events on saturday night. NPC (staffplayers) going off plot and killing 'player characters' is a huuge event nono, if you are a member of the staff team you job is to facilitate play not knockoff another team in their beds.

Having spent the day in the sun on the side of a hill i'd rather not have stagged on for 3 hours on the saturday night but it is part of the role and we did it (hallucinations and all). If the taliban wanted to sleep thats their prerogative. The RL taliban unless they have bombs to plant like to sleep at night too. They are an unconventional force they fight an unconventional war, why was anybody expecting them to do anything other than ambush/ied/kidnap their way through the event?

 

When my team stopped the unarmed afghan team on the hill we knew they were up there as spotters so we checked for intel (checking photos, maps copying pmr feq) thats how we knew that we were about to be bumped. The 2 people that were arrested were taken off the hill because a:we had eyes on their armed patrol heading our way and b:3-5 were in a tight spot and were about to be rolled over by another patrol being talked in by the 2 spotters we arrested.

The 2 players we arrested were very fun and chatty all the way down the hill and played their characters well and with good humor. All the afghan players my team met (not too many of them) were on good form and highly entertaining. As a deadpan combat mission perhaps this was not too fitting but it was a bit of 'fun' which i believe is the object of the 'game' we play.

 

I enjoyed myself over the weekend don't get me wrong it was great to stretch the legs and think about an area bigger than a skirmish site, to be eyes on and calling intel as and when. If i were training to go into a hostile area to perform a job then it would have been a valuable refresher or taster before moving into a more focused course of training. But at the end of the day we are playing a game and this event didn't play out like a good game or story lined event should do.

 

I fired 10 rounds the entire weekend and that was in response to a spray'n'pray attack by two taliban who hightailed it off into the night while i was trying to eat my grub. The only member of my team to be shot was shot by a member of 3-5 after the sunday morning assault on the fob, not a problem blue on blue happens. I formed a team of 4 men 2x500fps sniper rifles and 2xsupport rifle, we were never going to be an assault element i still feel that as a unit we could have been utilized more effectively (ie:not watching a friendly village most of the day because the information about the alliance had not been called through) and as a team the entirety of the rangers 3-1 thru 3-4 were poorly deployed and spent a great deal of time achieving nothing much. Textbook military operation i know, but when compacting a weeks worth of scratching ones *albartroth* in an OP and guarding an FOB from an unpredictable foe into a single weekend i just feel there needed to be a whole lot more 'in' the weekend.

 

other elements:

Drone, no use to man nor beast nice toy but mostly useless.

Thermal imaging in FOB, i had first stag on saturday TI operator was alseep before me and the system went into standby/ran out of battery before the end of my stag.

vehicles, saw them potter out down the msr a few times not really seeming to achieve much.

 

This is not personal but meerly an observation form somone who has been to more larp events than you can shake a stick at as a player and organiser/staff member.

From the moment 3-5 arrived on the friday and started issuing ###### orders with poor admin i felt very much like the remainder of the US team were forming the setting for stirling and the rest of 3-5 to play out thier own combat mission.

Pretty much all the major contacts were domintated by 3-5 and the seals team, and predominantly ballsed up by the lack of direction, co-ordination and though about how to enter and extract oneself from the situation. 3-4 to 3-5 even though you got captured we're not angry, just disappointed.

None of this bothered me and my team too much we were up on the hill overwatching for 3-1 thru 3-3 which was our job and we came down to cut off rear actions if needed.

 

Like i said nothing personal just some observations as an experienced eventing customer and organizer.

I had fun and fully intend on returning with my guys in september to play a very different kind of game.

feel free to pm me if you want any deeper thoughts so this thread remains relativly clean of arguments or banter.

 

Declan 1ic 3-4 Ranger recon.

[Jon L]

It seems that most of the comments on here are from one side of the event all the US rangers players. And eddyboydude comments seem to amount to if you didnt enjoy yourself as much as i did your a noob? Just reinforces the points that both the OP and angel have pointed out about double standards.

 

Its very similar to GZ NAE09. When a lot of bad feelings came on zeroin about delta. Which were either immediately deleted or denounced by delta players as everyone else not being good enough or just being noobs.

[eddyboydude]

Jon L.

 

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying you get out of the Combat Mission what you put into it, wether a first timer, regular or staff member....

Edited May 6, 2010 by eddyboydude

[-Angel-]

Jealous, paranoid and not trying hard enough? Its a wonder I leave the house in the morning.

[eddyboydude]

it seems the "them" and "us" has crept into this thread unfortunately...

 

The "them, glass half empty moaners who are allowed to publicly slag our events off...

 

And the "Us, glass half full guys who love playing airsoft, but are not allowed to defend our events in public...

 

I concede to the negative majority... You are right, we are rubish, sorry. I think I won't be able to leave the house now.

 

 

I knew there was a reason I stayed away from forums..... baws.

Edited May 6, 2010 by eddyboydude

[JonnyN]

if you didnt enjoy yourself as much as i did your a noob?

 

weak, just weak.

 

I think people need to get back onto topic, rather than exchanging pathetic tit for tat insults i think people should be focusing on the comments, good and bad, and learning from them. For example, after reading this (i was also at this event by the way) it seems several people have the same criticism, perhaps those individuals who are getting defensive about Stirlings Airsoft's reputation (who I assume to be Staff) should actually stop take these comments on board and learn from them.

 

IF those members are indeed worried about Stirling's reputation then perhaps they should step back and realise that by engaging in this immature 'well if its not our fault so it MUST be yours' behavior they are damaging the reputation of the company far more than a few comments and opinions on an airsoft forum if I'm honest.

 

With regard to the OP, I am sorry but i simply do not agree with your post, for example how can you say 'night time is for sleeping' on a 24hr Event, We had 2 hour stag rotations on the friday, and then my section did a 3 hour stag on the saturday, I fail to see how you can book onto a Stirling event (whose reputation is for realistic 'hardcore' Milsim events) and not expect to push yourself! I would urge readers to disregard the original post as I don't believe this to be a fair representation of the event and organisers. Personally, in terms of criticism, i think FarrasDevell posts the most succint example and one I agree with the most.

 

Having said that, I did enjoy Op Redwing, and I would (and plan to) return for another Stirling Airsoft event

[eddyboydude]

IF those members are indeed worried about Stirling's reputation then perhaps they should step back and realise that by engaging in this immature 'well if its not our fault so it MUST be yours' behavior they are damaging the reputation of the company far more than a few comments and opinions on an airsoft forum if I'm honest.

 

 

 

Again... all I have tried to point out are the many positives associated with a great deal of hard work that goes into these events and that they are a platform for the people that attend to get the experience THEY work for....

 

'Hardcore Military Simulation" is not about spoon feeding airsofters into feeling like real soldiers, it's showing them that it takes self discipline and self motivation to be a real soldier for a 25 hr period and you only get that if you get stuck in...

 

Anyway, you are right mate, maybe I am being too precious, but I have only had great experiences in the Valley as a punter and as a member of the team and can't wait to go back....

[Jon L]

Well the thing is everyone has opinions and that the OP had his. Its not for anyone to say its wrong, because that was his experience.

[farrasdevell]

I'm not here trying to slag anybodies events.

 

I'm Sure Stirlings combat missions are awesome if it is military force on military force.

Redwing was not a force on force situation.

The Taliban are unconventional forces, they do not fight or present themselves as an army in open view of the US forces. Therefore they should not have been expected to behave as soldiers, hell even the ANA struggle to comport themselves as conventional soldiers and we are training them.

 

I personally have no issue with how the Polish players played they seemed to be a wasted potential dynamic enemy that were hampered by unclear objectives and an overbearing command structure. Even though their mission brief was simple in the event outline it would seem that they were restricted or at least hampered by unclear guidance on the particulars of their missions.

 

The Polish players should have been given a list of concrete objectives.

eg:

saturday 11.00, Elders meeting @ village

saturday 15.30, collect weapons drop @ grid

saturday 23.55, disrupt all patrols on msr to allow transport of opium from --- to---

 

The rest of the time the brief for the taliban was simple, obtain intel on US forces, disrupt operations in the area, locate and eliminate SF team, Protect principal.

past that they should have been left to it and the US forces would have had a truly organic combat experience.

 

Incase people feel i am just board heroing, i am more than happy to talk directly to Stirling to help them avoid issues with opfor such as they encountered. Anybody that runs airsoft events is doing a good thing and i heartily encourage people.

I think Stirling have a great reputation and i'm sure most of their combat missions go off perfectly but this event did not show them at their best. I hope to return as opfor in september and expect to have a completly different experience as we will not be playing soldiers and will deffinatly not comport ourselves as soldiers.

[Tufty]

I'd just like to add that I've been attending Stirling events since late 2006 and have been to many of their games and not had a bad experience, I've also done 2 training days with them and now recently the Operation Redwing combat mission in the valley.

 

All the events organised by The Stirling team are designed for you to get the maximum from them provided you put in the hard work, the first training day I attended, we were on our bellies for most of the morning in 4 inches of snow and late afternoon we were instructed in the art of river crossing in a nice deep freezing cold river, some may say thats taking it too far... me? I say nope its all good fun. Again this is the old Adage you get out what you put in.

 

the simple fact is this if you come to an event and don't enjoy it let the Stirling team know with some constructive comments that don't involve you throwing your toys out of the pram. If you are still not happy ask yourself this:- Is it worth you booking up again? the answer is probaly no, why? because you are taking a place that someone else who will enjoy the event could have and secondly you really wont be missed. that may seem harsh but that the way I feel.

 

to those who were not at the event and are just wading in with thier 2pence worth could you please do us a favour and butt out you really are not helping to resolve any of the issues and are just aggravating things further.

 

Anyone complaing about unfair advantages of NV etc etc, why? there will always be have's and have nots, at the moment I dont have any NV do I whinge and whine about it? no! what I do is pu money away until I can afford the NV I want, until then I make do. I dont complain about unfair advantages or anything like that I just get on and enjoy myself.

[Nazio]

Hi everybody.

First of all i would like to make it clear.

I am typing on behave of group of 13 players, the reason is not to complaint about lack of action or event to be to hard. I am typing about not celar not the same rules and missleading informations given to Taliban side. These informations were not given for us to make our tactical situation clear, they were given to us in order to us out of initiative.

 

 

It was not my intention to make any clashes between players but it was to tell that not everybody have had fun, and not because they are weak, but beacuse of the rules. I cant deny, and nobody from our side can say anything wrong about the place or the terrain. Is brilliant, is awsome and no boundries with common sense rule is what we were looking for. Combat mission with 24hrs game was also something what we did look for. The reason why we did step out of game for night time was because we felt been tricked by not fair rules and not equal chances. regardles of technical advantage.

 

But I see we have one cowboy here so let me answere.

What's that? Nazio... A game of airsoft in a huge boundary free valley on the edge of the Brecon Beacons?

 

... An organic scenario that runs a straight 25 hours with no dedicated safe zones...

We dont need safe zones, we were fully aware what to expect, and there were guys who have participated in events in Poland without boundries for several kilomteres. This was nothing what could surprice any of us and nothing to complaint about.

... groups roleplaying as Afghan tribesmen and Taliban warriors. Those groups making alliances and then breaking them, switching sides like real afghans do to suit there own needs.

Yes and allied forces know all the time where they have bases. Do they ? they can walk in and search them and do whatever they want to do. Yes ? (this is what I ment when said - dont trust anybody apart your team- clear rule in between. Add to it dont trust your fellas in Afghan village and here we are. Don trust anybody, and we play our way. We know where we are, we know what to do and we have clear equal chance in competition.

... a large group of US Rangers to fight from Friday night onwards.

 

... People with Night vision and Thermal Imaging devices, even an authentic UAV Drone

 

... Yeah that sounds terrible mate, shame on Stirling Airsoft for putting on such a rubbish event.... Jokes!!!

Since you are so bold mate then I have to be honest: With out singing songs of glory to team mates. Before we did go I was more than sure that we not going to have a bigger problems with counter players during the day time even if they will have nuke for support, and I was right. If we would be told the truth in the morning, and rules / roles would be made clear then probably you would not have many chances to use any of your toys. ;-) I came to this conclusion especially after we did count our lost chances of capturing prisoners. But we lost those chances not because we are rubbish airsofters, we lost them because we were tricked by not clear rules and missleading informations given to us. This is what is all about. Be fair and create fair, equal opprotunities for both sides of story. So both sides are going to have fun.

I have been to many Stirling Combat Missions, initially as a punter and for the last year as a member of the Stirling team.

Thats why constructive criticism make you angry. ;-)

Edited May 6, 2010 by Nazio

[jethrotull]

dont worry guys the stirling crowd got mullered at copehill in april(again) and will again in august

if you have a problem combating guys with NV you should talk to the chef (the so called most dangerous man seen at copehill)

[Nazio]

We are not worried about anybody using NV. Guys have NV camo and other stuff, but this is not the strenght of our team. Our strengh is to make counter players side weaker of about 60 - 70 % of nominal force during the day. This gives better advantage than any NV or TV or whatever for the night.

[eddyboydude]

Nice one Nazio, hopefully see you at the next Combat Mission then....