KSC and KWA

[Dickens]

Hey guys is KSC and KWA the same? Its just i was looking at glock18c's and on firesupport they are £118 http://www.fire-support.co.uk/store/comers...p?idProduct=216 but on wolf the same one is £69 http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk/airsoft/bb/...=41SMGG18CHWKSC whats goin on people?? lol

Cheers

[Lance Jackass]

KSC is the japanese version i believe. And KWA is the export version.

 

I believe it to be KSC= plastic slide to comply with jap gun laws

 

KWA= metal slide.

 

And ive heard that KWA have less quality control. But having owned a KWA glock 19 i would have to say that its more than adequate. So its probably a rumour.

[Sledge]

KSC's are more expensive, and generally have better trades. Given you can't shoot at someone with trademarks, I stick to KWA.

 

[Dickens]

Ah righty so do u lot think it wouldnt be that bad to get the cheaper version and that it would be the same standard as the most expensive version?

Cheers

[Dickens]

Is that all it is, trades???? It doesnt matter about trades lol i was thinking about changing the slide to a metal one stright away anyway so it wouldnt make a difference.

Cheers

[black fox]

I think kwas are better in a way due to their metal slides. KSCs and KWAs are both made in taiwan in the same factory but the ksc's are sent over to japan and are checked for their quality, whereas the kwa are sent to taiwan and rarely checked.

 

Hope that helps though mate.

[Dickens]

Cheers black fox, so i wouldnt need to order a metal slide aswell if i ordered the cheaper KWA one from wolf then? Doesnt make any sence that lol youre getting a better deal if you get the KWA then lol

Cheers

[Sledge]

Edit ~ Ignore me, forgot you're getting an 18c. D'oh!

 

[Dickens]

Edit ~ Ignore me, forgot you're getting an 18c. D'oh!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh dont worry about it sledge lol any way it aint gospul yet any way. Im still deciding between a few pistols, originally i wasnt thinking of a glock and i just thought a full auto back up pistol might be usfull....... Ill wait and see lol

Cheers guys

[black fox]

Cheers black fox, so i wouldnt need to order a metal slide aswell if i ordered the cheaper KWA one from wolf then? Doesnt make any sence that lol youre getting a better deal if you get the KWA then

 

Exactly mate. Be careful with the 18c as if you change the selector switch without pulling the slide back you can damage the gun. Hope your new gun is alright mate:)

[Dickens]

Exactly mate. Be careful with the 18c as if yo change the selector switch without pulling the slide back yo can damage the gun. Hope your new gun is alright mate:)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cheers matey, sounds good to me, i think i shall be buying one of them on wednesday when i get payed now then hehe full auto pistol here i come!

Thanks everyone

Dickens

[Sledge]

Don't suppose you'd consider the Beretta 93R? Not that there's anything wrong with the Glock, but the Beretta... *drools*

 

[Dickens]

Well i wouldnt mind a berreta u know somthing tactical maybe but the 93r doesnt turn me on lol good sugestion though

Cheers

[R22Master]

The KSC / KWA link is difficult to define as proper serious solid info is hard to come by.

 

 

The Facts:

KSC and KWA make their guns the same. All parts are interchangable and some models are TOTALLY indestinguishable from each other (see KSC/KWA USP Compact). KSC models are intended for the Japanese market, where metal bodies are not permitted by law. KWAs are intended for other markets where metal bodies ARE allowed.

 

 

The Facts (most likely):

I spent several days last year researching KSC and KWA for a project. As mentioned, information was very hard to come by and there are a lot of guesses stated as fact floating round the net. Below is the information that my research turned up and is the only solid information I have seen on the net that is based on personally researched facts.

 

KSC and KWA are the same company. They are all made in Taiwan, but KSC models are shipped to the KSC building in Japan before being sold. This accounts for the increased price (they have travelled further). I personally don't think there are any differences in quality control as all my research supports.

 

 

My opinion:

I usually try to buy the KWA models, especially where metal slides are concerned. Apart from anything else, they are noticably cheaper and you are buying the exact same gun as the KSC counterpart.

[Crusader82]

The KSC / KWA link is difficult to define as proper serious solid info is hard to come by.

The Facts:

KSC and KWA make their guns the same.  All parts are interchangable and some models are TOTALLY indestinguishable from each other (see KSC/KWA USP Compact).  KSC models are intended for the Japanese market, where metal bodies are not permitted by law.  KWAs are intended for other markets where metal bodies ARE allowed.

The Facts (most likely):

I spent several days last year researching KSC and KWA for a project.  As mentioned, information was very hard to come by and there are a lot of guesses stated as fact floating round the net.  Below is the information that my research turned up and is the only solid information I have seen on the net that is based on personally researched facts.

 

KSC and KWA are the same company.  They are all made in Taiwan, but KSC models are shipped to the KSC building in Japan before being sold.  This accounts for the increased price (they have travelled further).  I personally don't think there are any differences in quality control as all my research supports.

My opinion:

I usually try to buy the KWA models, especially where metal slides are concerned.  Apart from anything else, they are noticably cheaper and you are buying the exact same gun as the KSC counterpart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's pretty much what I have always heard. The only variation I know of (as much speculation as your own) is that at the Taiwan factory they (both) are quality control checked once, the KSC are sent to Japan, checked again, while the KWA are immediatly out to export.

This doesnt mean your getting a lesser quality product, as they are both checked thoroughly.

Other than that, the KSC are granted with trades (not a infringement factor in Japan), while KWA are export friendly and leave trades off.

[Dickens]

The KSC / KWA link is difficult to define as proper serious solid info is hard to come by.

The Facts:

KSC and KWA make their guns the same.  All parts are interchangable and some models are TOTALLY indestinguishable from each other (see KSC/KWA USP Compact).  KSC models are intended for the Japanese market, where metal bodies are not permitted by law.  KWAs are intended for other markets where metal bodies ARE allowed.

The Facts (most likely):

I spent several days last year researching KSC and KWA for a project.  As mentioned, information was very hard to come by and there are a lot of guesses stated as fact floating round the net.  Below is the information that my research turned up and is the only solid information I have seen on the net that is based on personally researched facts.

 

KSC and KWA are the same company.  They are all made in Taiwan, but KSC models are shipped to the KSC building in Japan before being sold.  This accounts for the increased price (they have travelled further).  I personally don't think there are any differences in quality control as all my research supports.

My opinion:

I usually try to buy the KWA models, especially where metal slides are concerned.  Apart from anything else, they are noticably cheaper and you are buying the exact same gun as the KSC counterpart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good bit of research there R22, just wat i wanted to read lol i want the KWA model cause its cheaper lol and a metal slide aswell, god i am definatly getttin a good deal. Cheers

Dickens

[Lance Jackass]

KWA = good lol.

 

Thats about all there is to say after R22s post!

[Solid Snake.pt]

(...) KSC and KWA make their guns the same.  All parts are interchangable and some models are TOTALLY indestinguishable from each other (see KSC/KWA USP Compact). (...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Slight question here: Aren't the USP Compacts a part of the more recent KSC-marked replicas? I've seen both models (KWA/KSC) and, from what I could tell, it appears KSC's models have a 'KSC' symbol marking underneith the slide release. I believe this was also discussed a while back (See here). Also, if I'm not mistakened, the KSC versions are marked with a unique serial (with starting letters "XK" followed by a six-digit number) on the right side of the grip, whereas KWA versions don't have a serial. Though as I said, I could be mistakened (and please correct me if so).

 

I have also seen KSC M9's marked under the takedown lever with the 'KSC' symbol. These must be a part of a more recent manufacture, as their stock grips didn't have the typical, horrid KSC marking, but, they did have the typical KSC M9 trademarks on the slide.

 

On the other hand, I can't tell a KWA Glock from a KSC Glock, and I do believe there's no way from telling (at least without their respective packagings)!

 

EDIT: USPc marking is under the slide release, not the takedown lever. My bad.

[^cRYpTic^]

Don't suppose you'd consider the Beretta 93R? Not that there's anything wrong with the Glock, but the Beretta... *drools*

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seconded.

 

The Berretta's design is far superior to the full-auto Glock's. Reason being the 93r's blowback mechanism is actually in the grip, so it isn't moving back and forth every single shot like the Glock's does.

 

 

So the question is...why do I still have my KWA G26c?

[Samm]

This should sort some things out for people. Courtesy Zip3400:

 

KSC and KWA Glock 18Cs:

 

The KSC Glock 18c has full trademarks on the slide, and on the frame The KWA Glock 18c is devoid of all markings on the frame, except for “Made in Taiwan on the right side of the frame, and the numbers on the serial number plate. There is an actual “KWA” Glock 18c box, meaning there is a box with a “KWA” logo on it. There are two different types of KWA Glock 18c slides. On the Glock 18s imported by “Viper USA” the slide will have “Viper” imprinted on the slide. Other KWA Glock 18s will not have this marking, and will just have a plain slide. There is also a KWA Glock 18c that comes with a metal slide devoid of all markings, but I am not sure whether it comes this way, or along the line somewhere a metal slide was added. All of the KWA Glock 18s with metal slides that I have seen have had no trigger safety. I have compared a KSC and a KWA Glock 18c side-to-side and the frames seemed to be identical other than the KWA lacking any trademarks. The magazine that comes with the KWA Glock 18c has no “Glock” logo on the back of the mag, or on the base plate, but instead just has a blank area where it would be found. I have seen some KWA Glock 18Cs with trigger safeties, and some without, I really can't say for sure that you will, or will not get a trigger safety on your KWA Glock 18C. The KSC, obviously, does carry the trigger safety.

 

KSC and KWA Glock 17s:

 

The KSC Glock 17 has full trademarks on the slide, and on the frame. The KWA Glock 17 has no markings on the frame, or on the slide. I have never seen, or heard of a KWA Glock 17 with the “Viper” marking on the slide. There is an actual “KWA” Glock 17 box, meaning there is a box with a “KWA” logo on it. The KWA Glock 17s that I have seen all had the trigger safety, but I wouldn't doubt that there are some out there without them. The KWAs sold overseas (UNcompany) do have the trigger safeties, or so I was told in the reply to my E-Mail from UNcompany. The frame on the KWA Glock 17 that I saw was noticeably different from the KSC Glock 18c frame. The KWA Glock 17 frame material seemed very shiny. The KSC Glock 18c frame seemed better. I am not sure whether this means that all the Glock 17s use a different frame material than all the Glock 18s, or that the KWA Glock 17 frame material is inferior to the KSC versions. I cannot be certain due to the fact that I have not seen a KSC Glock 17 in person. The guns I was comparing were a KWA Glock 17, KWA Glock 18c, KWA Glock 19, KSC Glock 18c, and KSC Glock 19. So as you can see I didn't get a chance to see an actual KSC Glock 17, only the KWA Version So I guess comparing different models (17 VS. 18) frame material might no be fair. If anyone has a chance to compare an actual KSC G17 to a KWA G17 I would like to hear if you noticed a difference in the frame material. I would also like to know if a KSC G18c has a different frame material than the KSC G17. The KSC Glock 17s also come with trigger safeties.

 

KSC and KWA Glock 19s:

 

The KSC Glock 19 has mock trademarks on the slide reading "G 19 Mil Spec 9x19" The frame also does not have any authentic Glock trademarks, although it does have markings on the right side of the frame. The KSC Glock 19 magazine has no “Glock” trademark on the back of the mag, and no “Glock” trademark on the base plate. I understand this is due to Glock getting after KSC for using the Glock trademark without their permission. I believe all KWA Glock 19s come with a metal slide and barrel stock. I have never seen, or heard of a KWA Glock 19 with a plastic slide. The KWA Glock 19s also do not have the trigger safety. Recently I have done a survey on the Airsoft Retreat message boards, gathered following information, and thank you if you participated. It seems most KWA Glock 19s do not have the "Mil Spec Standard" markings on the right side of the frame. That just further complicates things. When I bought my KWA Glock 19 from Airsplat around 6 or 7 months ago I believe it was, it came in a KSC box, had no trigger safety, and DID have the "Mil Spec Standard" on the right side of the frame. I have also found out that there are actual KWA Glock 19 boxes. Seems as if newer KWA Glock 19s lack the mock trades on the frame, and come in actual KWA boxes. I have also found that many actual KSCs do not have the "JASG" marking under the accessory rail, and with KWAs some do and some don't.

 

KSC and KWA M11A1s:

 

M11A1: There seem to be 2 "versions" of KWA M11s. One version has no markings whatsoever on the gun, no "safe" markings, or anything. The other version has normal markings, except trademarks, obviously. The KWAs sold currently have a metal bolt installed allowing them to take Green/TOP without sacrificing durability too much. The KSCs have full Cobray trademarks, and most sold have a plastic bolt, but the one sold at www.airsoftmarine.net supposedly has a metal bolt upgraded pre-installed. The KSC M11 will suffer breakage of the bolt if Green/TOP gas is used. The early KSC M11s has individual serial numbers, but the later ones do not. The KWAs either come in a KSC box, a KSC box with a KWA sticker over the KSC logo, or an actual KWA box that looks the same, but actually has KWA printed onto the box.

 

KSC and KWA Berettas:

 

Berettas: I have had a KSC M9, KWA M9, and KSC M93R II. The KWA M9 is lighter than the KSC, has no markings on the lower frame, and says "KWA Mod Kal 6" on the slide. There WAS a metal recoil rod, which is the opposite of what most people say. The finish on the KWA was shiny, and very plasticy. The finish on the metal parts seemed blotty, but I guess that could have been just a slight difference between guns. Also, the fitting on parts was much looser. The slide-to-frame fit was very loose, and rattled around a lot. The finish on the metal parts was thinner, and wears off much faster. There are seem lines on the frame and barrel, where on the KSC there are none. Came with the KSC grips. Also, for some reason the de-cocker did not work, was most likely a lemon. The KSC was heavier, more solid, had trades (although not authentic Beretta trades) had no seem lines, and a nice matte, smooth finish. The two guns shot the same though, and the KWA did not have any jamming problems, or problems with cycling properly. Although the fit and finish, and weight is not as good on the KWA, I would say that as far as performance they seemed identical. Evidently newer KWA M9s have no markings at all on the slide, and come with grip panels devoid of any marking.

 

Taiwan and Japan Version KSCs:

 

There is also the deal with the Japan and Taiwan versions of some KSC guns (not all of them) Some people say TW versions are made in Taiwan, and Japan versions are made in Japan. Others say both versions are made in Taiwan, and the Japan versions are just shipped back to Japan to be inspected. There really isn't proof one way or the other, but what is interesting is that people have found "Made in Taiwan" stamped on the frame underneath the right upper trademark panel (just like the marking on the KWA frame) on their authentic KSC Japanese version Glock 18Cs. This would give more evidence to the story that they are both made in Taiwan. The new S&W Performance Center guns from KSC differ more than others in respect to the Taiwan and Japan versions. As far as I know these are the only guns from KSC that differ so greatly between the Taiwan and Japan versions.

 

More Info:

 

KWA and KSC guns are functionally exactly the same. All KSC parts fit KWA guns, and visa versa. The magazines are interchangeable, and so are all upgrade parts. Some people insist that KSC guns are much better than KWA guns, this may not be the case. The performance is the same, and in many cases, everything else is except minor details. Things such as trademarks, and a trigger safety in the case of the Glocks doesn't make a certain gun better than the other, although, since Airsoft guns are replicas it does make one a better replica than the other. If you get a KSC gun because you think it will outperform a KWA gun, then don't, because that is not true. If you get a KSC gun because you want trademarks and other features that you can't get with a KWA, then by all means do so. Just be informed that a KSC gun isn't going to shoot harder, or farther than a KWA gun. I have shot KSCs and KWAs and compared them side-to-side. Some people might say that their certain KWA gun didn't perform as well as their KSC gun. This could simply be that they got a lemon KWA, or a better than average KSC. Even when comparing 2 guns from the same company they will no perform exactly the same.

 

Another thing that I hear a lot is people say KWA guns can take Green/TOP gas better than KSC guns because there made in Taiwan. I have a problem with this. First of all, making a gun in a certain country isn't going to make it more resistant to the increased pressure of Green/TOP gas. It's the gun DESIGN that matters. Second of all, there are Japan, and Taiwan versions of some KSC guns such as the KSC Elite IA, and the KSC Glock 19. Third, supposedly the newer KSC Glock 18s have a reinforced slide. I am not sure whether the KWA has this, but if not, then the KSC would actually take Green/TOP gas better. Also, if you say a KWA can take Green/TOP better than a KSC because you had a KSC Glock, and a KWA Glock, and the KSC broke before the KWA on Green/TOP, that can be easily explained. Even with Western Arms guns that are only supposed to take HFC134a, there are reports of some people running them on Green/TOP gas for long periods of time. There are also reports of people who have had slide breakages after a couple magazines of Green/TOP gas. This shows that just because your KWA lasted longer than your KSC doesn't mean it can take higher-pressure gases better, it simply means that it lasted longer, like in the example I showed with the Western Arms guns. Although, if you have a KWA with metal slides and barrel, obviously it is going to be more durable with Green/TOP gas.

[R22Master]

That's pretty much what I have always heard. The only variation I know of (as much speculation as your own) is that at the Taiwan factory they (both) are quality control checked once, the KSC are sent to Japan, checked again, while the KWA are immediatly out to export.

 

Quite possibly. I found no evidence to either confirm or deny this.

 

 

Other than that, the KSC are granted with trades (not a infringement factor in Japan), while KWA are export friendly and leave trades off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not true. I know of and own several KWA models that have full trademarks. I have never seen a completely blank KWA (although that's not to say they don't exist). KJW guns are normally devoid of any trade marks.

 

--------

 

 

Samm, cheers for the info. Mostly, the info is good, although I spotted a few things in there that make me wonder if it is entirely accurate. The summing up seems bang on though.

 

The glaring error though is...

 

KSC and KWA Glock 19s:

 

...The KWA Glock 19s also do not have the trigger safety....

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's just wrong. I have owned 3 and used more than 10 KWA Glock 19s with metal top-slides and they ALL had trigger safetys. The only Airsoft GBB Glocks I have ever seen with no trigger safetys are HFC models.

[^cRYpTic^]

That's just wrong.  I have owned 3 and used more than 10 KWA Glock 19s with metal top-slides and they ALL had trigger safetys.  The only Airsoft GBB Glocks I have ever seen with no trigger safetys are HFC models.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two of my buddies just bought brand new KWA Glock 19's in the last two weeks, each from a different retailer. Neither came with a trigger safeties.

 

[R22Master]

Weird. Must be a US thing then. I have owned several and used loads, and NEVER come across a KWA with no trigger safety.

 

I still have two of these excelent guns in my collection (one of them sitting in front of me right now) and both have trigger-safety devices.

 

It's obviously not a global KWA specific feature - more likely a US KWA phenomenon. I have no idea why though. I can't understand why they would make a non-trigger-safety model just for the US though. Could it be an HFC model re-badged or something?

 

*scratches head*

[Sledge]

IIRC, the Glock trigger safety is a trademarked feature of Glock. Is it possible that it has to be removed for the US market, in the same way trademarks are?

 

[^cRYpTic^]

It must be a USA thing...

 

Come to think of it, I've never seen a KWA Glock WITH a trigger safety. Only the KSC versions seem to have them.