ColDaz Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hey, Sorry if this has been covered before, but I read the review on this site and had a quick search of the forums, so don't burn my house down. Anyway, do the (for example) M15A4's exist in real steel, or are they M4's or something due to copyright? Or even completly made up by CA? Cheers, Daz Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 They are m4's with unique armalite trademarks. Link to post Share on other sites
enzo100 Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Exactly. For instance ICS M4s are known as Olympic Arms (another armalite name). CA couldn't buy the trademarks from Colt so they had to come up with their own line. Link to post Share on other sites
ColDaz Posted December 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Ah I see, thanks alot. Daz Link to post Share on other sites
enzo100 Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 NP o and BTW welcome to Arnies Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Olympic Arms, Colt and Armalite all make versions of the M4. The Olympic Arms version is called the CAR-97, hence the ICS gun actually being called the CAR-97. The Colt version is the 'proper' M4, so TM, who have based theirs on the Colt version (although they don't officially have the license, they're Japanese, and so practically untouchable for that sort of thing anyway). The Armalite version is NOT, I don't think, called the M15. However, Armalite have given CA the right to put M15 trademarks on their guns, along with proper Armalite trademarks. Link to post Share on other sites
unimatrix001 Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Olympic Arms, Colt and Armalite all make versions of the M4. Armalite makes no M4 style carbine, see Armalite lineup: http://www.armalite.com/new/products.asp?caliber=223 The Armalite version is NOT, I don't think, called the M15. The M15A4 Carbine exists in realsteel and it is called M15A4 Carbine, but it's not a M4 Type, see here: http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifl...5a4_carbine.htm However, Armalite have given CA the right to put M15 trademarks on their guns, along with proper Armalite trademarks. Thats the point, they give them the rights to use the Armalite Markings on their AEGs, even though these AEGs are Military Style Rifles and not exact reproductions of the real Armalite lineup. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Let's not forget that Armalite invented the original M16. There is some confusion over the M4/M16 name. Those numbers are US Army designations, rather than manufacturer model numbers. When Colt took over production of the "Armalite" models they decided to also use the M4 and M16 names as their own model numbers. With hindsight this was probably a smart move because it kind of strengthens the view that Colt produce the "real" M4s and M16s. Colt do not supply M4s and M16s to the US army any more. Even so, the US Army designation for these guns is still M4 and M16. If Armalite or Olympic Arms were to take over production of these guns for the US Army then they would be called M4s and M16s within the US Army. Those guns might still be given different names by their manufacturers. Incidentally, I believe OA do supply M4s and M16s to the US Army and I have no idea if OA do have their own in-house designation for the guns or if they simply refer to them as M4s and M16s. Regarding CA and airsoft, CA used to make their guns with Colt trademarks. Colt let this slide for a couple of years and then decided to take action to stop CA using the trades. This was, as it turned out, quite handy. CA was beginning to get it's ###### together and being forced to remove the Colt trades and find an alternative really put a full-stop at the end of CAs first (and not so great) chapter. Lastly, I think Unimatrix is being a bit harsh to say that Armalite don't produce any true M4 style gun. I don't think that Armalite actually produce any military, full auto, rifles at the moment but that M15A4 carbine looks a helluva lot like the airsoft gun to me. If you check the accesories part of the catalogue you will find that it's possible to buy all the required parts to build a very authentic looking military rifle. Most of the Armalites come with the free-floating forends and flat-top receivers but military style carry-handles and forends are available. I know this for a fact because a friend recently (a year ago) purchased a straight-pull M15 which looked incredibly authentic. I remember being actually quite shocked to see that it was still possible to buy a weapon like it in the UK cos I thought our gov't had done their best to ban them. Link to post Share on other sites
Slugster Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 What the... my brother is in the USMC and he uses a Colt M16A4 I think... it might be a FN Herstal i sent him an e mail asking him... Link to post Share on other sites
KWP Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Yeah, I really don't know too much about the M4/M16 history, but I do know that everything goes back to Armalite. They are the real inventor, right? ...and that gives me good feeling to have their markings on my receiver body. Colt, Olympic Arms, or even H&K? WTF Happy New Year. Link to post Share on other sites
unimatrix001 Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 The AR15 was invented by Eugene Stoner, as he was working for Armalite. Then the concept and all the rights were sold to Colt. So it's not a true Armalite Invention it was only for a short time Armalite. Todays AR15s are very different to the original concept and influenced by a large amount of improvements from various companys and firearms designers. Link to post Share on other sites
ColDaz Posted January 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Does anyone know if a Sun Project or the other kind of Moscart shell firing M203 launcher (G&p is it? I can't quite remember) will fit to a CA M15 with an M4 adapter or something? Just curiosity mind, I'm not too likely to try it myself, but nice to keep in mind if I ever get the money . Cheers and happy new year, Daz Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 There are one or two that'll fit out of the box, and some need an adapter or modifying (TM I know does, not sure about the others). CA themselves are releasing one soon, though, which I'd guess will fit their own guns. Link to post Share on other sites
taz8654 Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 JUST FOR KNOWLEDGE SAKE. FABRIQUE NATIONALE IS THE SOLE SUPPLIER OF THE US MILITARY NOW, FOR M4'S M16A4'S, M249 SAW'S AND THE M240 MG. HK MAY SOON GET THEIR XM8 OUT TO THE BIG ARMY BUT NOT TO THE MARINES. THOUGH THERE OTHER ASSAULT RIFLES TYPES BEING LOOKED AT. AND THE COMMENT REGARDING THE M4 DESIGNATOR IS TRUE, ITS JUST WHAT THE MILITARY LABELS THIS RIFLE AS. AND THIS DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHO MAKES IT. Link to post Share on other sites
nmcabecadas Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 JUST FOR KNOWLEDGE SAKE. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read the forum rules and don't write all in caps. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 The AR15 was invented by Eugene Stoner, as he was working for Armalite. Then the concept and all the rights were sold to Colt. So it's not a true Armalite <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Eh? If it was invented by Armalite, it was invented by Armalite. End of story. Lotus invented the Lotus 7. 20 years later they sold the rights to Caterham, who now produce the same car as the Caterham 7. It doesn't mean that Caterham now "invented" the 7. Incidentally, and I don't mean this argumentatively, if Armalite's connection with the M4/M16 was so short-lived, (and I accept that is was) I wonder how come they are generically known as Armalites in much the same way that most vacuum cleaners are known as "hoovers". Link to post Share on other sites
Slugster Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 JUST FOR KNOWLEDGE SAKE. FABRIQUE NATIONALE IS THE SOLE SUPPLIER OF THE US MILITARY NOW, FOR M4'S M16A4'S, M249 SAW'S AND THE M240 MG. HK MAY SOON GET THEIR XM8 OUT TO THE BIG ARMY BUT NOT TO THE MARINES. THOUGH THERE OTHER ASSAULT RIFLES TYPES BEING LOOKED AT. AND THE COMMENT REGARDING THE M4 DESIGNATOR IS TRUE, ITS JUST WHAT THE MILITARY LABELS THIS RIFLE AS. AND THIS DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHO MAKES IT. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, Colt supplies the M4 other than that your right. Link to post Share on other sites
kjs7 Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm A Colt M16a4 is the same as a FN M16a4. m16s are made by FN but have colt trades on them. Oh and dont count on the XM8 being adopted by the army. Link to post Share on other sites
Tripod Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Too early to say that kjs. The M16 does need replacing though. Link to post Share on other sites
kjs7 Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 I would get in to all of the XM8s problems and whats going on with the program.....but i wont. It would start a flame war. the XM8 is almost dead. I have gotten all of the stuff i know from a very reliable and well respected guy on airsoft retreat(laugh all you want). He has talked to people involved in the program too. Its not too early to say it wont be adopted. By the way, the m16 and m4 dont really need replacing. just some changes to the system. Anyway, on Ar-15.com i think i saw a Armalite M15a4 carbine that looks just like the airsoft one. ill see if I can find it. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Too early to say that kjs. The M16 does need replacing though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Perhaps all the old M16s could be sold off to us in the UK. We need a semi-decent assault rifle, and anything's got to be better than the L85A2... Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Perhaps all the old M16s could be sold off to us in the UK. We need a semi-decent assault rifle, and anything's got to be better than the L85A2... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why? The M16 has had 40 years of development. The L85 has has 15. According to MOD trials, the L85a2 has greater MRBF than the M16. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Because the L85 is a hunk of cr*p, to be blunt. It's un-ergonomic, it's unreliable, and it's just...don't make me go on. I have experience of the L98 (cadet training version - single-shot only), and it's bloody awful. Link to post Share on other sites
kjs7 Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Because the L85 is a hunk of cr*p, to be blunt. It's un-ergonomic, it's unreliable, and it's just...don't make me go on. I have experience of the L98 (cadet training version - single-shot only), and it's bloody awful. Yes, even after Heckler&Koch made some changes with it, it still sucks. Doesnt SAS use M16A2s? Link to post Share on other sites
unimatrix001 Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 the XM8 is almost dead. I have gotten all of the stuff i know from a very reliable and well respected guy on airsoft retreat(laugh all you want). He has talked to people involved in the program too. These rumours are as old as the XM8 Program itself. Most of them are BS, hawked around by some hardcore AR15-fanatics who couldn't accept that the AR15 System is one of the worst military rifles in the world. Time will tell, let's take our popcorn and watch the show. If a offical information is released we can talk about, but we shouldn't speculate about rumours. By the way, the m16 and m4 dont really need replacing. just some changes to the system. That becomes nearly a question of faith. As for me the AR15 is ready to retire from military service. Anyway, on Ar-15.com i think i saw a Armalite M15a4 carbine that looks just like the airsoft one. ill see if I can find it. Would be interesting to see. All I can remember is a Fullsize M15A2 Rifle in OD furniture that looks almost like the CA. But no carbine. Maybe custom-build? Link to post Share on other sites
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