University Society UK League

[Flumps]

Hi there to all fellow student airsofters!

 

I am a member of Portsmouth university, and we're currently in the process of setting up a society of our own for airsoft. During one of the discussions some of us were having on the process and problems faced, it was put forward that there is a lack of anything competative for the sport to aim towards.

 

Rugby, Football, Cricket, hell, even paintball! All have got tournaments that the teams can aim towards and that give new members the drive to join. Alltogether it makes for a more competative and organised looking sport, (indeed, a real sport as far as some are concerned, must have a tournament/competition of some sort). It gives the society and its members something to aspire to, the ability to say they are the number one student team in the country.

 

As I have said, Airsoft currently has nothing like this, and personally I'm fairly convinced that it would not be too difficult to set up. With a website to keep all the league tables and matches on, the price of hiring a site being what it is, and the ability to set up competative weekends, I feel the only problems that this would really bring about is what sorts of games should be the focus of the events. This could be met by having a games play between two teams that plays out much like a standard skirmish day, with a series of individual, objective based games, all leading towards a total point score for the day. This should give all teams a fair chance of playing games that suit them, and keep it airsoft based, rather than too millsim/too hollywood for some.

 

As such, I have a proposal for you all, and it stands as thus;

 

-I suggest the creation of an University Airsoft League, or a "UAL".

-In order to keep things simple, there should probably be a small joining fee for the teams, to cover expenses (hiring of sites, providing insurance, if needed, etc.)

-Games will probably take place on hired sites around the country, and consist of a day of standard, objective based skirmishes with a points system for marking each game.

-Teams should be capped at a certain number of players, to keep things fair. (this would have to be settled later though)

 

As I have said, this is simply in the pipework at the moment, and I'd be open to any and all suggestions and improvements, as it would affect us all. Currently however, I'm just drumming up interest. If you feel that this is something that could benefit you, your team, or that you feel could simply be a bit of a laugh, then please, register interest here, and PM me with the contact details for your society President, chairman, or other point of contact, (this will probably be moved over to e-mail to sort out the finer points, so they needent necessarily be members of the forum) and we'll see if we can't get this shindig off the ground!

 

Come on guys and girls, lets see who's the best (And show them just how organised we can be! )

Callum

 

[Carrion]

if your tryinmg to get round BUSA then id give up now.

 

they are only interested in mainting the status quo and thus cash for foottie hockie and rugby teams

 

things which have a governing body like Sub aqua are being told that they "arnt a sport" despite there being a dedicated NWE uni championship for Diving and also the fact that acoding to sprt brit we are a sport.

 

 

[Lightbulb]

I don't think of airsoft as a competition, competitive but not a competition. I wouldn't want to play a game and constantly be thinking about winning. Its more about having a fun day than a short competition...

 

That said good luck to you! My last semester at uni so i won't be competing if you ever get it off the ground.

 

You might be better off organising some games between local unis. Theres loads around you after all...

[Flumps]

Cheers for the feedback!

 

I'd not even got as far as looking at the BUPA to be honest, It's literally something thats on the drawing boards at the moment to help give the society an apparant organisation and goal. Does BUPA have to be consulted on a matter like this, or is it possible to organise an airsofters competition as airsofters, and enter into it as uni's?

 

As for the formalities of winning, it certainly would not be compulsory to enter, either as a team or as an individual on a team. Should it ever get off the ground, I'll be doing my level best to make it as social and informal as possible, rather than all about the competition. I can see what you mean though, and it is something that must really be addressed in the mindset of the participants, i fear.

 

Some points that have been raised on ASCUK are the need for stringent marshalling in competitions, But I cannot see this as being something unworkeable, even if it means we need an independant team on site at the key points, or to adopt the paintballers scheme and work with that somehow. Also, the travel costs and accomodation, but as I see this being for just one day at a time, rather like the 6 nations isn't played in one lump go over a week or so, the accomodation wouldn't be needed, and hopefully the travel can be covered by uni funding or by society subs.

 

Thanks again guys, keep it coming!

 

[Carrion]

its BUSA

 

british university sport association .

 

 

quite simply unless it gets the uni kudos points by winning known gam,es then they dont want to know at all and dont want to give ANY funding at all.

[Janno]

Last year we had a University Challenge thing going on at FCS London which was quite a lot of fun - basically, it's 10-a-side, university vs. university (colleges and 6th forms are also welcome). The games are all run and marshalled by my staff just like a normal corporate day on a Sunday afternoon and we even have a licensed bar on site for all your student needs...

 

The event is run at half the normal price of a corporate day, and when we finish at 6pm, everyone goes to the bar down the road for a few beers.

 

It worked out quite nicely last year, though things have been pretty quiet for us on the student front in 2008. Still, the offer's there if you want it

[Flumps]

Definately sounds great Janno, thanks. I'll definately get back to you on that, although I'm not sure of the practicalilties of doing so this year just yet, may have to be next year.

 

Thanks again

[Janno]

No worries mate - if there's anything we can do to help make things more accessible/pleasant for you guys, just let us know

[Rack]

Realistically Carrion, BUSA need not have anything to do with it at all. Forming a league for social friendly competition and getting it recognised by an independant body are two completely different things. There is no requirement for a sport to be recognised by BUSA in order for it to be competetive.

 

It does however mean that airsoft groups at university will remain societies and not sports clubs. If you think that univeristites will only fund societies that win recognised competitions then I would have hated to go to your uni!

 

Besides the societies already exist, independant competition between them can be organised. i think what flumps has in mind was simply a means of formalising friendly games between groups, whilst adding an extra dimension of competition and raising accessiblity on all fronts.

[morpcat]

No worries mate - if there's anything we can do to help make things more accessible/pleasant for you guys, just let us know

 

Imperial College's airsoft guys will be down on Sunday, I'll get their lead to give you a buzz about things and stuff. They've been trying to set up a rematch with Reading (which went well last year) but so far no reply from the Reading front.

[Rack]

(In progress of being formed) Warwick AirSoc currently 23 provisional members and still counting... We will definately want to be getting the competition on once we have comfirmed our SU status.!

[horzathesecound]

I don't even know if Lampeter has a softing team other wise it sounds like a great idea.

 

I would suggest you try out a few games to see how the point system works. You really need to balence it to make it worthwhile.

[Jaager]

hi, im in my final year of VI form atm, if it was going to be a competition, id say have a series of "matches" over the course of the day, the best bet would be simple objective based scenarios, like capture the flag, or some sort of more mil type game where one team has to hold an objective building for 1 round and the other team has to capture it, then swap round after a set time. Or two teams star on different sides of the field and have to take and hold a certain ojective for the duration of the game.

 

as for teams, it would probably be best to cap numbers at 8 on the field with 2-4 reserves. if uni teams have more than 12 membes, they could probably enter two teams. id also say limit the number of support guns and stuff, say in a team of 8, you can only have 2 support gunners and 1 sniper or 2 snipers and one gunner. but its uni teams so there probably wont be that many support gunners. also limit drum mags to support guns only.

 

also if you want the unis to actually allow uni endorsed teams, you will need some trophies.

[Flumps]

Realistically Carrion, BUSA need not have anything to do with it at all. Forming a league for social friendly competition and getting it recognised by an independant body are two completely different things. There is no requirement for a sport to be recognised by BUSA in order for it to be competetive.

 

It does however mean that airsoft groups at university will remain societies and not sports clubs. If you think that univeristites will only fund societies that win recognised competitions then I would have hated to go to your uni!

 

Besides the societies already exist, independant competition between them can be organised. i think what flumps has in mind was simply a means of formalising friendly games between groups, whilst adding an extra dimension of competition and raising accessiblity on all fronts.

 

This man is spot on! This is a much simpler worded version of what I wa getting at, keeping it informal, in order to avoid getting bogged down in red tape and also to maintain the social atmosphere, previlent over the competative.

 

 

Team sizes and positions will have to be finalised once we know which uni's would be willing to partake in this, what they would be happy with, and what they have available to them. We would also need to asses how many uni teams are into woodland and into cqb, etc etc.

 

(And Tom, that is a hell of a lot of airsofters there, are most of them newbies? Drop me a line sometime to let me know how you're marketing that please, we've got a bit of a struggle on for members here! )

[Rack]

Hi Cal, I'll give you the details and some documeents Ive prepared when I see you back in hemel in the next few weeks - you just need to look at things objectively and form a plan. There are plenty of airsofters out there, you just need to make them aware. Precious little are forums regulars, after all.

 

I had 23 people turn up to the meeting on thursday. a good 13-14 of those were already softers and had at least some of their own kit, and I have already had interest from freshers looking to come up next year as well. And we mustn't forget Nick. See ya! (You up for Xsite on the 16th?)

[Jaager]

would it be possible for there to be a student players sub sub forum in the Game section?

[Stealthbomber]

Have you figured out a way to stop cheating in airsoft?

 

You're gonna need to do that beofre forming any kind of airsoft league.

 

As soon as it gets competitive, people are going to start trying to cheat. That's unavoidable.

The only way you could form an airsoft league would be if teams conducted practical-pistol style excercises against the clock rather than against each other.

[Rack]

Good point. Firstly, please note the posts above about how this would be simply:

 

...a means of formalising friendly games between groups, whilst adding an extra dimension of competition and raising accessiblity on all fronts

 

At the moment there are many uni socs, but none of them keep in regular contact. This is merely a proposal for a system through which these societies could be connected, and increse the frequency of inter-uni games. The league would exist, but not in the highly regulated way that most people seem to expect after reading some of this thread (this is *because* of the issues that have been raised in this thread, and you own point about cheating ). As such extra rules and style of play should not be as much of an issue as you would immediately think.

 

Now on the issue of cheating:

 

a.) Even in an informal league, I think that the fear of getting a reputation as a cheating team would be enough to put people off.

b.) Uni teams would be made up of the most committed society members, they are likely to be quite into the spirit of things and unlikely to put in on the line with a few dodgy moments.

c.) The emphasis of the whole thing in airsoft is no the winning or losing but immense fun to had by both teams. Most airsofters realise this. As such the reward for being at the top of the league would be nothing critical, and certainly not worth ruining a game for. People tend not to cheat for low stakes.

d.) Games would be marshalled as usual (by either society or site staff). With less players on site their job is easier.

[Flumps]

Currently I'm just drumming up interest and pondering this sort of thing over. The theory is that if there is enough interest, this will be set down in a more concrete manner, then a few trial games will be run, ammendments made, and so on. The chances are it will constantly be modified, in terms of rules and marshalling. At all stages of its development, I should imagine I will be bouncing ideas off of any and all airsofters I meet, particularly students and up and coming students, and reporting into the forums for advice and tweaking. I want this to be as fun and as attractive as possible to average joe airsofter (no mean task I know!)

 

The problem with practical pistol type comps is that it is more limited to people who are just competative, rather than enjoying the game (it narrows the game down too much for many people) and whats more, it can be seen as limiting to people with a leaning for CQB. Ideally, this is the sort of game where we would want all sorts involved, and play a mix of CQB and Woodland, so that there is something for most people in the event.

[Stealthbomber]

I wasn't suggesting you restrict yourself to only conducting PP style events. All I was suggesting was that you add maybe an hour of those activities and use them to "score" the events, rather than the actual skirmishes themselves.

For starters you could have a proper PP target event, a sniping contest, pistol dueling etc.

 

Much as I don't mean to rain on your parade, I just know that cheating, or accusations of cheating, would become a problem within hours of any competetive event starting.

The losers would claim the winners were cheating, regardless of whether they were or not. Team A crushes Team B. Team A then goes on to beat Team C and then (a month later) gets accused of cheating by Team D.

What's the chances of Teams B and C jumping on the bandwagon and claiming Team A cheated when they played as well?

 

And that's just the accusations of cheating.

Then there's the real cheating that will occur as well.

When people are away from the main body of action, if they get hit by a stray shot, their first thought is going to be whether they can get away with not taking the hit rather than just walking.

In fact, I can guarantee that some teams will be smart enough (or nasty enough, if you prefer) to deliberately use tactics to make this sort of thing work for them.

In a team of 10, for example, if they can see there's 4 marshals they'll split up into 5 teams of 2 to ensure that it's impossible for the marshals to observe what each pair is doing.

 

I think the only way this could be successful would be if the skirmishes were held for fun and any "league table" was scored on the results of PP events.

[Flumps]

Yeah, I know cheating will be a big problem with such a league, and its the thing that I'll be concentrating most on trying to eliminate. (or at least bring down to the same level as a standard skirmish). PP style events may well be the way to go in the end, but if you understand what I'm saying, which its quite likely noone will, i don't feel its quite the same as real airsoft?

 

It may be possibel to try and keep the games small, say, out of the teams total attendance to an event, they must pick 5 for each game, like 5 a side, and then have a marshal for each player, just shadowing them close enough they can see what is going on, but not close enough to be offputting or reveal their position, etc.

[Jaager]

that would be a bit complicated, how about, you have an objective that the teams have to take, and each time a player dies, they return o their respawn point and put a mark next to their name, then go back on, rather than elimination. that way have the death roster as an extra way of scoring points. If you have several 1/2 hour skirmishes, then the objective is the main area to score points, say if they complete it they get 200points and then for every kill they get 5 points.

[Rack]

That is a good application of critical thinking there, but the incentive for cheating would still stand as people would shrug off hits in order to unfairly acheive the objective.

 

Anyway, this is likely to go off topic into a detailed analysis of cheating in airsoft if we're not careful lol Are there any other players that would support an inter-uni system and be willing to go through a process of trial and error to test some of the theories raised in this thread?

[Flumps]

It's quite scary how you read my mind sometimes Rack! lol

 

But yes, Basically, if this was, for example a flawless system, or indeed, a different, more enforceable system, who/where (teamwise) would be interested? If you have ideas, then keep them coming, but interest would probably be best sent via PM.

 

Thanks everyone

 

[horzathesecound]

I'd definatly be interested, but as i say, i do not know if there is a team at Lampeter Uni