Easy Company Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Well until now, I'd been pretty dead-set on the CA M15A4. However, after reading a few threads regarding jamming, I'm now leaning towards the ICS M-16 Carbine, mainly because of the working forward-assist. Both are full-metal, so that's not an issue, but what would you guys suggest. I realize this is a very basic question, but I'm just breaking into airsoft and I don't wanna spend a lot and wish I had gotten something else. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Jamming how? Are you talking about the spring locking up, or are you talking about actual feed problems with rounds? If you're talking about feed problems with rounds then the "working" forward assist isnt going to help you solve that. The forward assist simply relaxes the spring in the ICS m4's. Ive put about 2k+ rounds through my m15 now and im absolutely in love. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted January 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Jamming how? Are you talking about the spring locking up, or are you talking about actual feed problems with rounds? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm referring to spring jamming; I'm very aware as to what the forward-assist does, that is why I'd like to have one that actually works. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Um, the forward assist merely relaxes the spring when its compressed. If its JAMMED there is no guarantee the forward assist is actually going to help you. Get whichever you think looks better. Its either hit and miss with a full metal m4 basically. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarnish Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 I bought the ICS M16A3 a couple of months ago and am very impressed with it, the two part gearbox makes upgrading the cylinder area parts a breeze. I have upgraded it somewhat into an M16A4 style rifle. It consists of the following parts and options:- *ICS M16A3 upgraded with Systema 1 joule spring and Teflon Cylinder (gives me between 310 and 325fps) *Classic Army M5 RIS with panels and foregrip *G&P 4x32 NSN ACOG Sight *GB-Tech "Flash Killer" scope filter *StarAirsoft Laser Aiming Pointer *G&P Long QD RIS M203 *G&P QD SOPMOD M203 Sight *x3 165 Round BB showers (x1 King Arms, x2 Classic Army) Link to post Share on other sites
Spezz Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Nice, tarnish. Just a question here and I would prefer an honest answer, not a biased one because you are ashamed to admit that you payed lots of money for a crappy scope, if that is the case at least. Is the G&P Acog any good? Because I have heard lots of bad things about it. Lenses falling out, crosshair unzeroes itself, way to short eyerelief. And have you been in skirmishes with it? Is it usable witha full size stock(or do you have to force yourself to be close enough to the scope.). Link to post Share on other sites
350 Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 i just got my ics m4, my 1st aeg. so far so good, xcept for the ant reversal lever/spring. swaped that out when i did the bushing and its great. about a whole bag of 3000 bs so far. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Um, the forward assist merely relaxes the spring when its compressed. If its JAMMED there is no guarantee the forward assist is actually going to help you. Get whichever you think looks better. Its either hit and miss with a full metal m4 basically. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nonsense. Take any AEG. Fire it rapidly in semi auto and I guarantee that with 20 shots it will have jammed. Now, most of the time you can un-jam the gun by switching to auto and firing. Once in a while, however, the gears don't free off and you need to strip the gun to relax the spring. Except on the ICS M4. On the M4 you can push the FA and it'll release the spring which has un-jammed the gun every time I've needed it so far. If that doesn't work you've also got the option of popping the rear receiver pin and firing the gun with the upper gearbox removed to realign the gears. If that doesn't work you can even try spinning the sector gear manually. To me, it's like trying to convince somebody that a car without airbags or seatbelts is actually better than one with them. Basically, hopefully you'll never need any of these features but why on earth would anybody deliberately choose to buy a car without them when you can buy one that has them instead? It's the same with the ICS M4. It has a bunch of good features and no bad ones. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the CA M15 but the ICS M4 is a more advanced gun. Why on earth would you deliberately choose to disregard the advanced features? Link to post Share on other sites
Scizz Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I don't own a CA gun as of yet, so I cant comment on its performance, but I absolutely LOVE my ICS m4. It strips by pulling out 2 pins, and the forward spring assist rocks! It looks great, feels great, and it solid as a rock. Never given me a prob in 10k bb's. My only complaint is the front foregrip looks and feels really plasticy imho. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted January 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I have no idea which I'm going to end up with; I hate the way ICS colored the receiver grey instead of matching the colors. That's purely cosmetical and can be fixed... but I'm not looking forward to painting a brand new gun either. Not a very appealing color scheme, IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Are you dissing my bed sheets???? Seriously, the gun is dark grey but you shouldn't let it bother you. I honestly can't understand how people prize colour above things like reliabilty and accuracy. Also, real ones are grey, not black. Link to post Share on other sites
TaQ Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 To me, it's like trying to convince somebody that a car without airbags or seatbelts is actually better than one with them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well to me it's like installing airbags and seatbelts on a GoTravel! bus... or something.. But back to reality with no analogies.. the only thing thats stopping me from buying the ICS M4 is the grey receiver (and maybe the finish of the foregrip). As you said yes, it's a much more advanced gun, and with it, the price too. If you're not 100% certain on getting the gun you want, don't bother asking on a forum, you'll only get more pro's and con's off the members, which will make your decision even harder. And then you have PERSONAL opinions.. Anyway, end of the day both rifles I'd get the M15a4 (which contradicted most of the babble I've just typed..) for me it was the BLACK receiver and white markings. Link to post Share on other sites
Magsz Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Sid, i was refereing to an earlier thread here on arnies that i assumed the original poster was talking about. (it was in regards to ca's and locked up springs/gears) Like i said, im not talking about simple jamming or misfeed issues here. Im talking about massive gearbox failure where the spring and gears are actually JAMMED. I was merely trying to point out that in both situations, either gun would require you to open up the mechbox. Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFox Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Since I do own both a CA M15A4 and and ICS M4 C-15, I guess I can speak on this topic. They both have full metal bodies, something TM lacks without an extra $150-$200 (for a decent one). The only problem I ever found with my M15A4 is that one of the wires in the motor tends to slip out of place. However, with a small piece of electric tape this is easily solved. Power wise, the M15A4 series exceeds the ICS M4 series out of the box. You'll typically find the ICS M4's to be firing at an estimated 275 FPS while the M15A4's are in the range from 280-300 FPS. Either way, the upgrade potential for the guns is just about the same. And yes, I have found the internals to be much more stable and durable than TM's. Maybe it has something do with metal? The only real difference you're going to find, outside of the stock FPS, are the gearboxes and motors. ICS revolutionary gearbox is fantastic, and the ICS Turbo series motors are also quite fantastic; they just sound a tad bit, well, different. All in all, the M15A4's are probably your better choice. Financially, they're a tad bit cheaper. I would recommend (in order) the S.P.C., Tactical Carbine, or the R.I.S. Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Golightly Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 After much deliberation I purchased a C15 ICS rifle. I bought the rifle because I hate PEQ's and am now in the process of adding a battery stock (hence the rear wired option). As of tonight I have it in bits to spray the body black and in doing so noticed the sheer qhality and fit of the gearbox and other frame parts. I had to fight the barrel out of the upper receiver, not because it was to a bad fit, but because it was a bloody good fit. Also the fit of the upper gearbox in the upper receiver is unbelievable. Its so smooth and tight to insert its almost obscene. The barrel carries real weight (the internal brass real bb barrel that is) The weight of the stripped body is I am sure heavier than a Hurricane M4 derivative. OK I have yet to skirmish with it but its uograded to the same spec as my Marui M4 and just shooting it in the garden it seems just, well , better. So after all that, and I cannot comment on CA, and I wont resort to rumours its a great set up. Love that split gearbox box. Before I spray the body, anyone done this or know if standard celulose type car paint, Halfords, will react badly with what is on there already? Yeah I know do a test but previous experience is always an advantage Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I think CA m15 looks better than the ICS M4. It's quite simple to prevent jamming. If you want rapid fire, use auto mode, and in single mode keep your rate of pulling trigger below 1 pull per second, and you'll be fine. I've shot my CA m15 ...oh I don't know... around 10k rounds now, roughly a quarter of those are shot on single, and had no jam whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Golightly Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 I spent a lot of time looking at the body castings of the ICS and I can not fault it, I must say I will look at ICS against all others in the future. Can not wait for their AK74 Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted January 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Thanks for the honest replies fellas, I wish the CA units had working forward assists, however if I'm pulling the trigger in single-fire enough to jam it up, then it may as well be on full auto anyways. But none-the-less, it looks like I'll be dropping some green on the CA M15A4. Now, another newb-*albatross* question for the vets here: Specifically, what would be the best battery to run with this rifle that would allow a full-day's play? I've heard the higher mah batteries will risk in burning up the motor quicker, but I don't want a battery that's gonna be spent after firing off three mags. Also, I fell it's worth mentioning that I'm probably not gonna use too many of the 300-round + hi-caps; I like the mid-cap Vietnam-era shorties. This seems like a good battery, any feedback? Thanks again guys. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 No, higher mah batteries will last longer. It is the higher voltage batteries that will burn the circuits (try not to use higher than 9.6v batteries unless your gun's internal are reinforced to whatever high voltage you want to use). Normally, AEGs use 8.4v, but the CA guns will take 9.6v right out of the box. The one you looking at is going to do just fine (probably just over 3000 shots on a full charge, otherwise, you've got a defective or poor quality battery), so if you don't shoot more than 10 hi caps in a day's play, you'll be fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted January 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Much obliged Shao, that's exactly what I was looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
Shao14 Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 No problem. From my experience, battery qualities do vary alot, so either get batteries with warranty or do some research on the ones you want to buy. I also heard the NiMH does not provide as much output power as NiCad, but NiCad has memory so discharging it completely before recharging it is pretty important. Nowadays, I stick to NiCad. I've got a couple of 9.6v 1400 mah nunchuck batteries for my stock CA M15 A4, and each of them can last about 2000 rounds on a full charge. I have another 9.6v 1400 mah that lasts only around 1100 rounds. All three are NiCad, so you see the varations among batteries. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted January 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Thanks again Shao; I guess a NiCad cell might be better for the output, as long as it's completely spent when I hook it up to recharge. I wonder if it's a big difference in the output power, NiMH vs. NiCad. Link to post Share on other sites
cent101 Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Well.. all i can say is that when you've opened the gearbox twice in a day with a CA m15a4 (of the older variant, granted, serial 397) you'd sure like to have that forward assist...... ... .. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted January 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Well.. all i can say is that when you've opened the gearbox twice in a day with a CA m15a4 (of the older variant, granted, serial 397) you'd sure like to have that forward assist...... ... .. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Argh! I'm not sure what I'll get; I can always paint the bloody thing... Link to post Share on other sites
Catchv22 Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Can the ICS take other aftermarket metal bodies? The only thing I don't like about it are the trademarks. I can see that the metal body is not in the same shape towards the stock attachment point, so I was wondering if it could be compatible with other metal bodies. I have heard that it can't, but I am not sure if this is just hearsay or if someone has had actual experience with it. Link to post Share on other sites
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