Sniper Log Book

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

I've heard of real snipers having a log book of shots taken with their rifle. I was wondering, does anybody do this with their airsoft sniper rifle?

 

I suppose an actual sniper would need pin-point accuracy all the time. A log book of shots helps them to know their rifle's consistency and to look for any trends in their shooting. Things such as slings, manually loaded bullet as apposed to self-loaded ones (in semi-auto snipers) and cold bore shots can all effect the accuracy of a real sniper. A log book can be used to record this, thus helping a sniper to try and become totally accurate with all of his shots.

 

Is an airsoft sniper consistent enough for a log book? Or is it so randomly inconsistency that a log book of shots would be rendered useless?

 

Of course, it would depend on the rifle itself and what upgrades it has (if any) but I was just interested to see if you any of you actually keep a log of your shots?

[angelmaker]

I dought it the only log type book I would keep would be to take notes on recon.

[Dist]

a log book for airsoft is pointles. for real life sniper rifles, at extreme ranges, there are so many variables that need to be accounted for to make a cold bore shot, angle, wind, heat, humidity etc.... a snipers log book would have all the details on how to adjust his rifle according to the mesurements taken.

 

The only things an airsoft snipers may want to log, is shots at a target range, where you can note down where the shots landed, what sort of grouping and what this was accomplished on (ie, what gun/ammo/gas/power settings). And even then, it wouldnt provide much usefull information for skirmishing, it would only be usefull just as a record.

[The Bushman]

I have a log book of events that is used to record scores on target shooting each time out. It doesn't have a log of in game shots like a "snipers log book".

 

Its nice to look back through it and see the weather conditions and how you performed on the range or training games etc.

 

Indeed I had a good stalk and shoot this weekend in the rain. I crawled in very close when the spotter came and observed from 15m away for around 30 minutes. He looked right at me numerous times and my heart was in my mouth. As he moved off, I managed 3 rapid hits on the target before he came back right infront of me. I dare not move and my chin was on the floor as I watched him. Later I managed to crawl back out of there and reposition to the oppersite flank for my last shots. I was only seen on my 10th shot. Result

 

Good hunting

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

The only things an airsoft snipers may want to log, is shots at a target range, where you can note down where the shots landed, what sort of grouping and what this was accomplished on (ie, what gun/ammo/gas/power settings).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have a log book of events that is used to record scores on target shooting each time out. It doesn't have a log of in game shots like a "snipers log book".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, that's what I meant. A real sniper would use two books, a log book of shots on the range and a field book that includes maps, sketches etc when they are on operations. However, I'm not likely to be sent out on any close target reccies any time soon!

 

Its nice to look back through it and see the weather conditions and how you performed on the range or training games etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's exactly the sort of thing I'd use a log book for. It's nice to chart your progress and see how you've improved.

 

Thanks for you answers guys, keep them coming. Does anybody else keep any sort of log book of shots?

[Marine47]

I think airsoft snipers are too randomly inconsistant to log shots. I have an idea of where my shots are going to go based on past experience with my rifle and that's really the best method (knowing your rifle). I doubt you need a book to know it.

 

True airsoft snipers don't need to outrange people, they need to kill them before the people know the a sniper is even there. That's my theory about airsoft sniping.

[Harry]

We use Sniper Log Books allways... For real shooting and for airsoft too. We do it for training reasons and to add some reality to our airsoft scenarios. In the book, there are several kinds of informations, not only "the shooting log book".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes I am wondering: is there someone else, doing our hobby the same way? If there is, contact me, please

 

 

 

 

Harry

URNA

[Stealthbomber]

Can't see the point myself.

 

A real sniper uses a logbokk to record stuff like what correction he dials into a scope for a particular range with a particular temperature and side-wind etc. Depending where the shots go you know if you have a better idea of what adjustments to make the next time.

 

Incidentally, for some of the more expensive scopes you can buy turrets with little retractable paper tapes built in. On them you can write info about range vs wind or temperature etc.

They make a handy aid-memoir for a sniper.

 

Again, I wouldn't bother for airsoft. There's simply not enough range for variations in trajectory to do more than give you a hit or a miss.

[Harry]

Well, to make it more clear - our Sniper Log Book (and the real snipers log books as well) is not only about ballistic or shooting data. It has the tactical part too

 

Our log book is full of drawings, notes, observation datas, topo, etc... For airsoft, we do need to use the shooting part of our log books. And on the shooting range, we do not have to use the tactical part... But - together (airsoft/tactic, shooting range/ballistic) we can fully use our log books.

 

And for a sniper - I can not imagine, that any sniper could do this "job" without his log book and notes

 

 

 

 

Harry

URNA

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

Those are some great pictures Harry.

 

I understand what people are saying, in fact that was one of my main concerns to start with - consistency.

 

I am yet to see how consistent (or inconsistent) an airsoft sniper rifle may be. I should finally get round to ordering my rifle soon.

 

However, I'm still contemplating if keeping a log book of shots is worth while. I might just do it for the mil-sim aspect, though I'm sure that it must provide some support.

 

Does anybody else keep a log? (Before this this drifts into cyberspace.)

[The Bushman]

I suggest that log books of your shots, are very much for the mil-sim aspect and are not practical for gaming. My own log book just records scores from target events, weather conditions and chrono results, not point of aim or impact point.

 

The information on where the shots land and windspeed/distance is too random compared to firearms; that are more scientific. All the results are not needed to be put onto paper, as the difference is the fact that BB's are moving slow enough to see their flight path. Therefore, all the information is stored in your head instead and builds up over time to form your prediction of the pellets flight path and therefore your best point of aim.

 

Lastly the fact you are one heck of a lot closer to shoot in a game, dictates you don't have to time to get a book out. Remember what an Airsofter would call "extreme range sniping" is actually "CQB" to the military.

 

Forget a log book if you are new to this sport... just get out and shoot your gun enough to get good with it.

 

Practice makes perfect.

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

That's basically cleared up all of my questions:

 

Do people keep a log of their shots?

Only very few.

 

Is it worth keeping a lof of your shots?

Not really.

 

Will I keep a log of my shots because I like the mil-sim side of it?

Probably. Although once I've realised that it's pointless I'll most likely stop!

 

Thanks for your replies.

[Insanejoe]

keeping a log book for your gas, bb, and hop up setting combos and their accuracy may be a good idea though so you can find the most accurate/long raneged load you have. a bit like a handloading log book.

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

That's a good idea.

 

I suppose if you're trying different combinations of gas and BB's etc, it would be handy to note down your experiments. This could help depending on what sort of fators you want - e.g. FPS vs. Range.

[Stealthbomber]

And for a sniper - I can not imagine, that any sniper could do this "job" without his log book and notes 

Harry

URNA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If a sniper team is to spend several days observing a location they will make notes and draw pictures so they can describe areas, ranges, fields of fire, routines and other stuff to each other. None of that is neccesary in airsoft.

 

Or to paraphrase you, I cannot imagine that any sniper would have the time to take part in a skirmish while spending his time filling in his logbook and notes.

 

*EDIT*

I don't do this very often but I call BS on those urna.net pictures.

They look wonderfully professional with their spotting scope and bino's.

Try using a spotting scope or bino's in an airsoft game.

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

There are two types of books you seem to be mixing up.

 

Yes, a real sniper would have maps, sketches, range cards etc - this is known as a field book (more of a collection of notes really, than a book) and differs depending on the operation; on where they are and what they are doing. I agree that a field book in airsoft would be useless as these factors don't matter as much. Also, you wouldn't have enough time to use all of this information.

 

A log book is used on the range or wherever you practice. It notes down everything about your rifle - thus allowing you to understand your rifle in more detail.

 

The two should not be mixed up. A sniper would not take his field book onto the range in the same way he wouldn't take his log book into the field.

[Stealthbomber]

There are two types of books you seem to be mixing up.

 

Yes, a real sniper would have maps, sketches, range cards etc - this is known as a field book (more of a collection of notes really, than a book) and differs depending on the operation; on where they are and what they are doing. I agree that a field book in airsoft would be useless as these factors don't matter as much. Also, you wouldn't have enough time to use all of this information.

 

A log book is used on the range or wherever you practice. It notes down everything about your rifle - thus allowing you to understand your rifle in more detail.

 

The two should not be mixed up. A sniper would not take his field book onto the range in the same way he wouldn't take his log book into the field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

None of which is relavent.

 

If we're to go by your understanding of a "log book" then that won't be going into a skirmish with you and (particularly if I was on your team) I'd rather a sniper didn't spend his time, during a skirmish, making pretty pictures in a field book.

 

Beyond that, unless you weighed and gauged all your BBs before firing them, and came up with a hop-up system that can have its setting accurately recorded, and have a hand-held anemometer/hygrometer then you don't have the data you need to create accurate statistics about the shots you've fired.

 

Bottom line is that no airsoft sniper (except in a tiny fraction of games) has time to make the sort of notes you're talking about during a game.

 

Course, if you want to use a book to log the results of your practise sessions then knock yourself out. However, I honestly don't think there's much you can record except hold-over at diferent ranges.

Airsoft guns just don't have the range where logging how to compensate for stuff like temperature, or even wind speed, is required at anything more than a level where a bit of experience will tell you all you need to know.

 

What are you gonna do?

 

Take a shot then jot in your little book "30m shot, 5mph wind from west. Shot compensated 1moa up and 1.5moa left. Target missed by 0.5m" before you reload and take another shot?

 

Thought not.

[The Bushman]

Stealthbomber... I think Harry doesn't really "skirmish." They appear to try their hardest to emulate "snipers" activities, which involves very little actual shooting and lots of observation and gathering intelligence.

 

They are more like re-enactors than skirmishers. Like he says, he does an angle of the game no one else seriously does. Just like I have my own angle.

 

I myself have used a spotting scope in a game, but it was from around 500m in order to plan a night attack on a camp. It was very useful, but I would not use one in a regular skirmish though. It was on a 5 day event.

 

Good hunting

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

If we're to go by your understanding of a "log book" then that won't be going into a skirmish with you and (particularly if I was on your team) I'd rather a sniper didn't spend his time, during a skirmish, making pretty pictures in a field book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The two should not be mixed up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

However...

 

I agree that a field book in airsoft would be useless...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bottom line is that no airsoft sniper (except in a tiny fraction of games) has time to make the sort of notes you're talking about during a game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Again...

 

I agree that a field book in airsoft would be useless...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Course, if you want to use a book to log the results of your practise sessions then knock yourself out. However, I honestly don't think there's much you can record except hold-over at diferent ranges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for your input.

[Stealthbomber]

I myself have used a spotting scope in a game, but it was from around 500m in order to plan a night attack on a camp. It was very useful, but I would not use one in a regular skirmish though. It was on a 5 day event.

 

Good hunting 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must admit, I wish there WERE more games (berget type things) where a sniper could make proper use of his scouting skills.

I mean, I'd love it if a game had a plot that required a sniper to watch for patrols, make notes of patterns and then pass the info on to a larger force so they could organise an assault I'd love it.

Unfortunately, given that most skirmishes are only a few hours long, at maximum, then a sniper doesn't have time to operate like that.

In fact, given that most skirmishes require teams to start off at opposite(ish) ends of the field then there isn't usually even an opportunity for a sniper to do anything independent of the main group.

Personally, I find about the best thing I can do, as a sniper, is scuttle off out of the way and hide until the opfor work their way past me and then I can attack them from behind.

 

Also, I gotta say that if a sniper tries too hard to do sniperish things during a normal skirmish he ends up being useless to the team. If you're going to spend half an hour wanreding off gathering grass cuttings, building yourself a hide and setting yourself up to shoot anybody who happens to walk past then, TBH, you're not being very much use to your team.

 

Thanks for your input.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My input?

 

I said it was pointless to keep logs. Of any type.

You seem to have responded to each post I've made with counter-points and now you're saying you agree with me?

 

Well, ok. Fine, I guess.

[Harry]

Thank You Bushman, that is right And I have to say - I do like Your way It is not the way we do our hobby, but You have my respect

 

Yes, there is some missunderstanding about "log books", "field book", "notes" etc...

The fault is mine - my english is not good enough to say it in right terms

 

We have only one "book" for everything. It is called The sniper's diary in our language. We have everything in this book, sketchs, notes, topographic info, ballistic chart (.308W - not 6mm BB ), other charts and lot of things I cannot write in english... This book is printed on similar paper to the "Rite in the rain" notebooks.

 

We really use spotting scopes and binoculars (i have one pair right in the pocket all the time - as knive, lighter, flashlight, para-cord and keys from my car ) during airsoft events. Those pictures are from several airsoft scenarios, except the second one (that is from training on the police/military ropelling site). Last weekend we were on the Protector IV airsoft event. And we did observe the enemy base from 500m. For 40hrs nonstop. The refresh for everybody was 6hrs ant the area was 9x7 km. At this event, "the Columbian drug cartel" did even an assault from helicopter to the "US peacekeepers" base - 24 people from the helicopter, together with "the Venezuela drug cartel", maybe 30 people...

 

By the way, this weekend we have Airsoft Sniper Cup 2007. I will post some pics and words later...

 

 

 

 

Harry

URNA

PS: once again: sorry for my english

[c_a_r_t_e_r_3_5]

My input?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

However, I honestly don't think there's much you can record except hold-over at diferent ranges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

 

Obviously if I decide to keep a log book - gathering from what I've read, that's unlikely - it would only be relevant to airsoft; there is no point going into ballistics and all that.

[Stealthbomber]

TBH, I don't want to make this a big deal.

 

I mean, if you want to keep a log of your practise shots then all power to you.

It's just that you'll probably find that by the time you're familiar enough with your gun to know when something is the guns fault and when it's yours then you'll also know enough that you'll know what to do in any given situation without referring to notes.

Basically, within a couple of months of use, you should be happy enough with the gun that you simply won't need to write anything down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not gloating about it.

I think it's another facet of airsoft where an opportunity is lost to do something a bit more involving.

It's kind of like using locaps or using watches, maps and radios to organise assaults on an enemy position.

They're nice in theory but most games just don't happen that way.

 

Thing is, if everybody wanted to then I'd LOVE to play games with locaps (and limited ammo) but you need to remember that everybody is entitled to play however they want and once a couple of people use hicaps you need to use them to stay competetive.

 

It's the same thing with sniping.

It'd be great to scout out the opfor and radio back to a strike team but it's far more likely that your team is going to be running straight toward the opfor and they're going to be running straight toward you.

That doesn't give a sniper much opportunity to do anything more covert than find some cover and line up a few shots before either advancing or falling back.

 

Hopefully games like GZ and DT, as well as Berget, will give snipers more opportunity to really indulge their more diverse skills.

[The Bushman]

Unfortunately, given that most skirmishes are only a few hours long, at maximum, then a sniper doesn't have time to operate like that.

In fact, given that most skirmishes require teams to start off at opposite(ish) ends of the field then there isn't usually even an opportunity for a sniper to do anything independent of the main group.

Personally, I find about the best thing I can do, as a sniper, is scuttle off out of the way and hide until the opfor work their way past me and then I can attack them from behind.

 

Also, I gotta say that if a sniper tries too hard to do sniperish things during a normal skirmish he ends up being useless to the team. If you're going to spend half an hour wanreding off gathering grass cuttings, building yourself a hide and setting yourself up to shoot anybody who happens to walk past then, TBH, you're not being very much use to your team.

 

Many excellent points are raised here. Sorry if this is abit off topic. At the heart of being an effective "Airsoft sniper" is the fact you must account for yourself; otherwise you are just weakening the team (as you point out). You must "pay for yourself" by getting results; be that information or hits on target.

 

Many of the limitations you point out about regular "skirmish" are exactly why we have always strived to push the boundaries. In my game, we don't even know where the opponents start (it could be close or a long way off). The games last several days. This is to stop the predictability of games that end up just replayed each event, over and over.

 

We have multiple teams, so that even when you are winning an engagement you have to watch your rear.

 

Your points also indicate what is most important in order to be effective. You need to be good at time management. This skill involves knowing what tactic will provide the best chance of results at which stage of an event. Ensuring you waste as little time as possible doing other activities (such as filling in a log book).

 

To be an effective player, you need to be able to "read the game." This is when you string the limited information you glean together (be it encounters, sightings, intercepted radio comm's or sound) to predict what is going on in the bigger picture. This helps you determine which areas are good routes and which direction to expect opponents.

 

Using the limited time in the game, in the right areas is the secret, otherwise you can sit and wait in the wrong position for much/all of the game with no sightings or shots fired. I guess its all a matter of having a hunch and most of the time mine are right. My opponents would admit, it is one of my main strengths and a key to my success.

 

The log book is nice if you stick at the sport as after a while and so many events you do forget some details and they can start to blur into one. Therefore it does have a place, but often only to filled in after the event on the journey home or after a bath etc...

 

Harry, I see that your angle of the mil sim sport is very in depth and requires dedication. You are not just there to fire off some gun and want to test yourselves by the looks of it. Extended observation can be a real test and we use it in some of our games too. I suggest you are at the pinnacle of "mil sim."

 

Let us all know what you jot down in your log book, at the coming Sniper Cup.

 

Good Hunting

[angelmaker]

The only time I use a log type book. I get a laser range finder set it to feet. Then I know already how much to adjust and the exact range of my rifle. (305 ft) Then I when I'm in a position I use the range finder to find out how far stuff is away and mark it in my book. so when It comes time to shoot I know if they are in range or how much I need to over shoot etc.