A Mill and Lathe? Or a Mill or a Lathe?

[fr3sh]

Apologies for this newbie question, but in most of these project topics I've been seeing people type 'mill and lathe, mill and lathe.' I'm confused as I thought these were separate machinery or is there one that incorporates both the functions of a mill and of a lathe? Finally can someone explain to me when you'd need a lathe and when you'd need a mill for any metalwork? Wikipedia is confusing sometimes...

 

Cheers,

[Gooberz]

Lathe. Mill. They're two separate tools.

 

A lathe would be good for symmetrical work (Not exactly the best term. Cylindrical things. Wood Lathes make baseball bats, table legs, etc. You get the idea?), like a barrel extension, flash hider, etc. Mills for other stuff, like body work, gearboxes, etc. CNC Machines (CNC Mills) stands for "Computer numerical control". They're connected to a computer, and mill out a 3d model from a block of metal, wood, foam, or whatever material you have.

 

If you're looking to do custom work, a drillpress and hand tools would probably be a better starting point. They're cheaper and easier to find than a full on mill or metal lathe - You might even already have them.

[fr3sh]

I did go to wikipedia first lol but I needed it explained in layman's terms I guess, not funky mumbo jumbo about 'symmetry about an axis of rotation.'

 

Does that mean then there's no magic machine that is a mill and a lathe in one? Could be a Dragon's Den idea lol and save whoever buys both buying one instead

 

Cheers for the explanation buddy!

[Deviant]

There are tools that combine the function of both, but aren't usually as good as the two single machines.

 

This is an example of a combo machine.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=39743

 

Personally, I have the individual machines and would find the change over steps annoying to try and use the combo.

 

((Would end up just using it as a lathe or a mill))

[Josiah Hull]

*Deviant beat me.

[Ferrarilove1]

There are tools that combine the function of both, but aren't usually as good as the two single machines.

 

This is an example of a combo machine.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=39743

 

Personally, I have the individual machines and would find the change over steps annoying to try and use the combo.

 

((Would end up just using it as a lathe or a mill))

Yeah there are machines that do combine functions, but... The price look at it $500, which brings my to my second point. Look at the load capacity, it's very small. If you want a three in one machine go for this one: Click Me That's the one I'm looking at getting, the most you could make with the other one is barrel extensions. Save up a little, you'd get more for your money. I know my stuff, I have unlimited access to all types of machines at school, including a CNC machine.

[Tuthmose]

It's definitely worth mentioning, money-wise, that the investment in the machinery (be it an all-in-one or two seperate machines) is only part of your capital outlay. The machines are useless without tooling. You will need cutting and milling bits, collets, tool-holders, vices, clamps, tables, and a host of other items. It's not at all unusual to spend more money on tooling than on the machine itself. I certainly am not trying to dissuade you from getting into metal-working (owning a mill has always been a dream of mine), but you should realistically know what you are getting into . . .

 

-Tuthmose

[Deviant]

Tuthmose is 100% correct.

 

I have a 7x14 lathe ($350~), seig x2 mini mill($400~), and a seig x3 mill($1000~).

 

The mini lathe and mini mill are both manual machines. The x3 is converted to cnc with servos and ball screws($1600~).

 

On the project table I have a old craftsman lathe that I have gutted to cnc($Free, non-functional atm).

 

With all that said.

 

I have spent more on the list that Tuthmose provided, and still have alot more to spend.

 

I.e. I have end mills that cost 30-75 bucks each. Hurts your feelings if you break one being stupid.

 

Just make sure than your prepared to spend the money on tooling.

 

I will caveot that by saying that with some creativity. You can do things without the proper tooling, but that doesn't make it easier or safer.

 

 

[fr3sh]

That's too much info you've dissuaded me now lol. Just messing I guess everything takes time and money, always been a dream of mine to have a mill/lathe/both and end up making my own custom airsoft guns... but I'm not rich enough yet... nor skilled enough either

 

That three in one machine looks like a beast though, I'd have no idea where to begin from!

[Deviant]

www.cnczone.com has a lot of good info, mostly cnc related.

 

www.practicalmachinist.com is good also.

 

www.smartflix.com has dvd's for rent on mill/lathe. But I don't know if they ship to the UK.

 

Honestly, I really don't think I'd get a 3 in one, unless you are extremely limited on space.

 

Most people usually get a lathe first, as it's not very difficult to learn to use.

 

Personally, I got a mill, because you can act like you have a small lathe by putting the item you want to turn in the spindle and mounting a lathe tool holder on the mill's table.

 

You need to decide what you want to make and think about what steps will be needed to create the item.

 

I.e. you might be able to make most airsoft guns with a vise, drill, file, hacksaw etc... Albeit, that method usually takes more effort.

 

I was/am looking at making and selling airsoft parts. So I wanted to cnc controlled equipment, to help speed up the process. At least on repeat parts.

 

 

 

 

[fr3sh]

I was/am looking at making and selling airsoft parts. So I wanted to cnc controlled equipment, to help speed up the process. At least on repeat parts.

 

So did you succeed in your ambition then? That's something I'd like to follow too it would be a dream to make a living off airsoft, although that's unlikely as I have no metal or woodworking skills lol.

 

Thanks for all the info guys, if I do decide to go down this route it will probably be via a mini-mill first, or perhaps I'd try using simple tools. Am looking to make a stock for the VSR in the future.. still at the drawing board stage though

[Gooberz]

Talk to Killbucket, he's on several Airsoft forums. He runs Airsharp.

[fr3sh]

Killbucket's projects scare me lol. Thanks for all the info guys think I got more than enough of what I need!

[Ferrarilove1]

Just one more thing before you make a decision. The machine will at least cost $500, then you will have to get a 220V power line to your house which will cost $1000 to install, then it will be $200-$400 a month to run it and you cannot forget about shipping the thing. So you looking at at least 2 grand just to get it up and running, and this is minus all the tools. Metal working as a hobby is one of the very expensive ones,

[Docv400]

You don't have to buy new stuff remember

My old (but perfectly functional) lathe cost me £175 around 10 years ago, I've since spent approx £150-200 on tooling for it.

My milling machine cost me £160 (admittedly I was very very lucky to get it that cheap, it's worth nearer £1000-1200+ )

By the time it's ready to use (with a new motor and all the tooling I want/need for it) I will have spent around £500-600+ on top of the purchase price, which will still work out relatively cheap for what it is.

 

With machine tools, you should always go for the biggest capacity machine you can afford because you can always do small jobs on a large machine, but you can't do large jobs on a small machine.

 

Also, don't forget what Candyman achieved before he got any proper machine tools .

[Rob15]

Just one more thing before you make a decision. The machine will at least cost $500, then you will have to get a 220V power line to your house which will cost $1000 to install, then it will be $200-$400 a month to run it and you cannot forget about shipping the thing. So you looking at at least 2 grand just to get it up and running, and this is minus all the tools. Metal working as a hobby is one of the very expensive ones,

That won't actually be required for someone in the UK though as our standard mains power supply is 230v

[Ferrarilove1]

2 grand USD or only about 940 GBP for all new equipment . And Rob, even though you get 230V (lucky ducks ) I think you still might need some sort of converter but I don't live in the UK so I'd have to check on that.

[fr3sh]

You don't have to buy new stuff remember

Also, don't forget what Candyman achieved before he got any proper machine tools .

 

Yes but candyman had skill and a lot of experience before in building rc monster trucks etc... I have neither lol but am optimistic, I made a custom 15" silencer before with about 10 baffles (from wood lol) but that's a small project compared to making a stock even for example.

 

That won't actually be required for someone in the UK though as our standard mains power supply is 230v

 

I thought so was getting worried about power supply then!

 

I think if I do go down this route as I said before it will probably be getting a mini-mill first, if I'm proficient at it then perhaps move onto bigger things. But first thing is first I have to try with the tools I have at the mo.

[Docv400]

It may be because I only had a lathe for a long time (still do technically ), but I think if you have to start with just one or the other, a lathe will be more useful for the majority of Airsoft jobs, particularly internal parts.

Someone who has both will be able to put a less biased opinion forward of course.

 

 

[Deviant]

I don't think that I'll ever be able to make a living off airsoft parts, but maybe I'll be surprised. Obviously, that depends on your motivation and what level of "living" you are able to except from the hobby. I caution you not to allow the business to suck the fun out of the sport, I've seen this happen to other business owners.

 

Currently, I work a full week baby sitting IT equipment. When I come home I crash on the couch, surf the web, or work on the wife's honey do projects. Recently I added a 1k sq foot extension to the house for the wife's new business and dug a pond for her glorified carp aka koi. ((See not all american's are lazy, at least some of the time.))

 

I do intended to get back into it though. I cut a bunch of parts for making a pretty cnc enclosure. Currently I have all the cnc controller parts laid on on a large board to act as a real life wiring diagram. Unfortunately, it takes up too much room, so I disassembled to controller to fit the parts into a smaller box.

 

I registered a website, got hosting etc. Spent the last couple months experimenting with an LLC business for my wife. ((Learning steps for when I do my thing))

 

Obviously the state of the economy sucks for creating new business, more so with a business that caters to a hobby.

 

Ideally, I'd like to start making items. If nothing more than to justify the pile of money that I have tied up in the oversized paper weights.

 

I plan to post on the my blog and try to find some motivation. For me it's easier to work on things, when you have people watching over your shoulder aka bugging you.

 

I was planning to build one gun a month as custom orders for people, but I just haven't gotten that far along.

 

*Back on topict*

 

I think you will find the hobby highly rewarding, but let me say that machining is a hobby in and of itself. I find myself looking at more machining related items than airsoft lately.

 

I'm always thinking about how I could do something different or improve a design. It's pretty cool to know that you have the machines to actually do the work. But when you get down to the doing the work. You realise all the tools that you don't have. Personally, it sucks some of the wind out of my sails. I end up spending more time trying to accurately hold the part, than you do actually making the part. When I actually start doing it as a business, I'll need to work on making the proper fixtures for repeated machining. In addition to buying all the proper tooling. ((drills, reamers, end mills etc...)

 

There are several companies that sell the mini mill in the UK. Since it's a smaller mill, I would expect that it can run on your normal home power outlet. The wife gave me the third bedroom for my play area. I moved the mini mill and lathe in there. I don't have any problems running them both at the same time, along with my computer. You shouldn't pull alot of power, unless you are hogging out major cuts or you bind the tool. Then you will pop the machines fuse, prior to tripping the house breaker. That's been my experience anyway.

 

Out on the garage, I have the x3 mill, bandsaw, craftsman lathe trying to rub their dirt and grease on ther other toys. ((Car/motorcycle/etc)

 

I'd like to add, that the tools seem to have a pretty decnet resale value. At least on the base machine, so you shouldn't be out alot of money. If you decide to sell tha machine and move on to another hobby.

[Tom Andrews]

If you get hold of Model Engineer, or Engineering in Miniature, both monthly periodicals sold by WH Smith you can often get second hand machinery from the classifieds, or from one of the advertisers.

 

There is a specialist of second hand tools at St Marys Cray Kent, and another on the A24 near Horsham if you are in the South of England.

 

 

[PlasticMag]

That won't actually be required for someone in the UK though as our standard mains power supply is 230v

 

And most houses in the US, at least older ones, have dedicated 220v outlets for dryers, washing machines, refrigerators, and air conditioning.