What Airsoft's missing

[Danke]

Yeah, nice snub nosed bullets would be the answer.

 

I've been doing a bit of research, it turns out if you have the barrel rifled counterclockwise, the bullet is given quite significant lift, and with the low mass of the bb and the larger resistance to downwards motion of a shaped projectile, these bullets could well match a hop up system.

 

Thanks all for feedback, keep voting =D

 

You have to post links or references to that research, I'm really looking forward to reading up on these findings.

 

I did have a look myself but it appears that what I can locate is contrary to your findings so I need further information & reference material on this phenomenon.

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

If you open up the code on this

 

http://www.knightarmco.com/bulletflight/

 

you see the equations compensate significantly for drop for all long shaped rounds, and significantly for those with clockwise twists. Admittedly real bullets might act differently, but I think the difference should mostly be one of mass. What causes me more concern is to be able to fire the round down a rifled barrel the same as a real bullet as the bullet has to be engraved by the rifling to be properly controlled. This would create a need for pre engraved rounds, which would make lining them up with the rifling tricky. Hopefully someone can see a way 'cause I sure as hell can't.

 

EDIT: Realised my last post was wrong. It's clockwise twisted rounds, rather than counter-clockwise.

[Danke]

That's where folks who are are talking about projectiles with fins come in the door. the fins will spin the projectile or hook into a groove in the barrel like a slot car.

 

Can you post some screen caps from that program? I don't use an iPod so I can't fool about with their calculator.

[spetsnazdave87]

If you open up the code on this

 

http://www.knightarmco.com/bulletflight/

. Admittedly real bullets might act differently

 

Possibly, yeah...

[frogfish]

But you forget the density and energy coefficients, the mass:volume of plastic is much lower than metal, and we are traveling at a much lower velocity so things like wind play a much greater role in effecting the BB. So in order to have a rotation that won't over "hop" the BB you need a very minor twist, yet you need a twist strong enough that wind or pressure variations won't cause any tumble, at the speeds and weights we're talking it's not going to happen. In all honesty you won't see much of a change in performance. However; you will see a relative rise in injuries, instead of welts on bare skin you'll see wounds from partial penetration of the round. On top of that you would need to design a whole new system, machine out barrels with the proper twist, and you'd need to be able to make consistent enough BBs with little to no mould marks. Then you'd have to load each round individually, if there was an increase in performance, I'd go for it, but I don't think it will happen, and still be safe enough for us to use.

 

 

As for AEGs with manual cocking, I think KWA had one a LOOOONG time ago, and it didn't do so great. It's not really a feature RS assault weapons have, you can't charge the handel once and load one round, then charge it again to load the next (unless you fire sub sonic ammunition), so I don't really see how including it on an AEG is something that is needed, as it's a function of the ammo and not really an intended effect for the mechanism.

 

For AEG mechboxs the solenoid driven piston system is interesting, like the polar star system, but as I said in that thread, as soon as people stop posting in there the topic will die ad the mechbox will never see the light of day....Otherwise I don't really see anything that would just be a reconfiguring of the same concept, unless you went full into gas replicas, if you want to use a battery there is only so much you can do, and a motor spinning gears is one option, and a solenoid is the other..... You could try to bring back the TOP billows system but.... good luck with that...

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

Going to take a look into all the cockable AEGs that have been mentioned, see if any of them do what I'm looking for, and if so work out why they fail. If anyone knows what the problems were- was it poor workmanship, or did the design just suck, please let me know.

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

Can I please ask everyone to fill out the poll. Had over 340 views, only 22 votes. Thanks

[frogfish]

vews /= individual members who have looked at this thread, I've probably racked up 20 of those views if not more.

 

Also why is it so important you get people to vote? Do you have ties with a major manufacturer, do you think a poll on arnies will actually motivate a manufacturer to do something? Really all you did is start up a discussion that will in the end, lead nowhere. Most of these topics you have brought up have been discussed thoroughly, and quite recently, you've just brought them back up to the top. A poll also in no way represents airsoft as a whole, it's only a portion of a website, remember the many thousands of airsofters who do not even go onto the internet to read about airsoft, or the thousands who don't go beyond a local website.

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

vews /= individual members who have looked at this thread, I've probably racked up 20 of those views if not more.

 

Also why is it so important you get people to vote? Do you have ties with a major manufacturer, do you think a poll on arnies will actually motivate a manufacturer to do something? Really all you did is start up a discussion that will in the end, lead nowhere. Most of these topics you have brought up have been discussed thoroughly, and quite recently, you've just brought them back up to the top. A poll also in no way represents airsoft as a whole, it's only a portion of a website, remember the many thousands of airsofters who do not even go onto the internet to read about airsoft, or the thousands who don't go beyond a local website.

 

 

True, this probably won't achieve anything, but you never know, and there's no harm in trying. A large poll's more likely to work than just me ranting on about it.

 

 

 

[frogfish]

A large poll's more likely to work

 

That's a negatory. To give you an example, G&G "the Player's company" released a poll in 2006(?) about what replicas to make before the end of the decade, well they obviously didn't care about the vote as they produced one of the items that was very low on the list first, and the top item just barely skated in, never mind everything in between. We is somewhat the same way, where's the L85, and where's the hi-power?

 

You can try, but some of us who've been around just get annoyed by these types of things as they remind us we are at the whim of people who make things for a different market, I think I can pull up about three threads very similar to this that all are >/= one month old.

[Azubi]

That's a negatory. To give you an example, G&G "the Player's company" released a poll in 2006(?) about what replicas to make before the end of the decade, well they obviously didn't care about the vote as they produced one of the items that was very low on the list first, and the top item just barely skated in, never mind everything in between. We is somewhat the same way, where's the L85, and where's the hi-power?

 

You can try, but some of us who've been around just get annoyed by these types of things as they remind us we are at the whim of people who make things for a different market, I think I can pull up about three threads very similar to this that all are >/= one month old.

 

 

I was getting deja vu as I was reading your post.

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

OK, I'm fully aware this probably won't achieve anything, but it's better to give it a go.

 

So everyone please vote.

 

Thanks

[Blazer]

1) A decent shotgun. 3 rounds just doesn't cut it, and grenade launchers fire way too slow. What I think is necessary is a 30 bb/shot fully auto airsoft shotgun. Could work using 40MM grenades with a loop system (so it looks like a drum mag, the full shells come into breech from one end of drum, the empty shells go into the drum at other end. Nothing's ejected so nothing's lost, and nice spray ability.

 

Isn't this a 40mm rotary grenade launcher by another name, except instead of 40mm grenades you have shotgun shells, like the film The Dogs of War with Christopher Walken? IIRC that piece was made specially for the movie. Not really of any interest to me as it stands. YMMV

 

The Maruzen shotguns were conceptually brilliant, but mechanically weak, and had real issues with leaking gas and jamming shells. I had one, loved it, but sold it on to someone who didn't want to skirmish it, because it wasn't a skirmishable gun. To do this right you would have to have good engineering and very cheap shells; another problem for the Maruzen had was hard to get and expensive shells.

 

I imagine that if this could be done that by now some airsoft manufacturer would have done it. I suspect it's a non-trivial manufacturing problem for the price range the market will stand.

 

2) A proper grenade launcher. Even if it only fires the same grenades you just throw normally. Would make the game a lot more fun.

 

The grenades that you throw, if launched in a grenade launcher would contravene current laws in a lot of countries. I recommend that you look at MadBull products to see what is feasible or not.

 

3) An AEG you can cock. Even with mosfets etc, response time is a bit rubbish for AEGs. If you could cock the gun like a springer in advance, then when you pull the trigger (if on semi) the spring is released firing the gun, then the motor winds the spring back and locks it back. Obviously on fully auto the process is just released again.

 

Already discussed in some detail and again it all comes down to the price that you can manufacture something that will sell in the market, which is dominated by people wanting cheaper guns.

 

4) A Mil Dot sight designed specifically for airsoft. So if there was one with the different crosshairs for say 50, 75, 100 and 125 feet, or w/e is the most practical. Real military scopes do NOT work that well for airsoft.

 

There are lots of clone dot sites on the market, so I don't understand your point, as IMNSHO sites follow the rule of cool, they look good, but are not actually necessary for shooting at the ranges we engage with airsoft guns. YMMV

 

5) Shaped bullets for snipers. Same weight as normal bb's, and a blunted tip for safety, would seriously increase range and reduce drift. More expensive but hey, snipers don't need many bullets.

 

So wrong I don't even know where to begin that doesn't end up looking like a personal attack. It's all down to physics and micro flight aerodynamics.

 

6) A rip off of the EOTECH which is actually parallax removing. I don't understand the science so don't know if it's possible.

 

Oh yes Eotech work brilliantly for airsoft, in that the parallax correction of the holosite is a very useful feature. However, again, if they could be cloned they would be, but we are talking high quality optics and manufacturing costs. eBay is your friend for Eotechs if you look for blow out sales of last years model.

 

7) Cheap claymores. Yes they exist at the moment, but they're so expensive the person setting them is never more than 5m away. Cheap, one use only 'mores would be great.

 

If it could be made cheaper it would. All the cheaper Claymores I've seen, or people have made don't work to a satisfactory standard.

 

8) Shock absorbers for mags. I DIY these using thin sheets of fabric, so I can eject mags on any surface without worrying about damaging them. Ideally this would be done by the manufacturer to accomodate the padding without modification.

 

IMNSHO you are on you're own planet here. I've been playing airsoft for over 11 years, and while stuff breaks, the last thing I expect to break is my magazines. If you are breaking magazines then again IMNSHO I suggest that you practice your magazine changing drills daily, or until such time as you can change magazines with your eyes closed etc, or accept that magazines are disposable items and budget accordingly.

 

9) Silent hi-cap mags. When the mags full, it doesn't rattle. It's only when it's half empty. If the winding of the mag caused the main chamber to contract so that the bb's could never rattle, it'd be silent. I am aware this idea is rather impractical, it's more the idea, I'm sure someone can think of an easier way.

 

Again IMNSHO you clearly have no idea. Hi-Caps are IMNSHO the lowest common denominator of airsoft, and one that is clearly not cool, as chicks dig guys that use real caps.

 

10) A properly working Neilson device. This is what silences the action on a real gun. Installing one on an AEG would make it practically undetectable.

 

Would be illegal. Also IMNSHO total anathema to airsoft as game that seeks to replicate people shooting at each other. Real guns, even when suppressed, still make around 70db of noise. Nothing fires completely silently, though the target may not hear it, the firer always will.

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

I've recommended using the grenade shells just because it'd save someone having to design a new system. Personally I think you need to be firing 40+ bb's for a decent shotgun.

 

I think Nielsons would be legal, at least in the UK- no real weapons you can get your hands on legally have a blowback mechanism, so the device would be pointless. Also you can silence all firearms without any additional sort of license.

[ardrummer292]

Real guns, even when suppressed, still make around 70db of noise.

 

Closer to 119dB (suppressed .22LR, 1m left of muzzle) to about 140dB (most 5.56mm and some 7.62 suppressors, 1m left of muzzle).

 

/offtopic

[AirsoftBuyer1234]

True, but that's using supersonics. Since we have to use sub-sonic rounds (meaning no ballistic crack), we might as well reap the benefits =D

[ED-SKaR]

Closer to 119dB (suppressed .22LR, 1m left of muzzle) to about 140dB (most 5.56mm and some 7.62 suppressors, 1m left of muzzle).

 

/offtopic

 

MP5 SD with subson rounds has been reported to be as low as 50db

[frogfish]

True, but that's using supersonics. Since we have to use sub-sonic rounds (meaning no ballistic crack), we might as well reap the benefits =D

 

What benefits? I'm sorry, but you seem to have no clue here. My AEG's sound dosen't come from the muzzle it comes from the motor and the piston an escapes from the body, a silencer won't silence that.... on a GBBR, the already common foam filled silencers do a wonderful job. No need to spend ~$200-$300 on something that is only *possibly* slightly better than something for $50, and also highly illegal (again ITAR regulations are very strickt on the sale and transport of neilson devices).