St Matt Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 My beloved M4 has died due to its tortured gearbox finally kicking the bucket. I have had a look and to be fair I would have to replace most of the parts so I have decided to treat it to a new complete box. So can any of you clever people recommend any? I don't want to pay too much but I have seen the Guarder gearbox kit at £180 which I would stretch to if it is worth the money? Also I have seen the KWA gearbox for approx £100 but I don't know if the KWA boxes are any good (never had a KWA)? Any info on these two options or any other recommendations would be very helpful. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites
bladerunner168 Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Get a G&P V2, will last about 80K (at least) rounds before you need to replace anything (providing you do the most basic of maintenance). Link to post Share on other sites
Half Trigger Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 A G&P one should suit you fine. Or just pick up a standard JG or D boys one for £30 and that should last you 30-40k rounds... Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Second the G&P idea. They're very well made, reliable, and when parts do go wrong G&P replacement parts are practically falling out of the internet because it's so stuffed full of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Lonex complete gearbox , top notch internals and the gearbox casing is reinforced at the front . If budget permits also get one of their Titan motors , one of the best all round motors you can buy .. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 +1 on last post. Wanted to post it myself. I am sorry, but G&P gearbox - serious guys? They are POS when you look at the big picture. Pricewise IDK. Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 +1 on last post. Wanted to post it myself. I am sorry, but G&P gearbox - serious guys? They are POS when you look at the big picture. Pricewise IDK. I've had about 12 G&P AR AEG's before I moved onto GBBR's... Never had a mechanical failure in a single one, and no work required other than replacing the trigger contacts after 60-80K rounds, which was an £8 cost and 15 minutes of work. They're not POS if you want to run them in the UK climate at less than 400FPS, they are in fact excellent. If you're into crazy modding the batshit *fruitcage*ery out of everything, they might not be suitable, but for a stock gearbox intended for normal use in the UK they're excellent. Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Yep it would be a stock gearbox for me, hopefully around 300-320 fps, so I am tempted by the G&P however I notice they dont have the little sticky uppy bit on the top where the charging handle slides, the bit that stops it pulling out. Would this be a problem in a KA body? Also while I have been browsing I have come accross the Systema energy gearboxes for approx £180. Are these considered good boxes and would it be worth paying that bit extra for if the quality is better? How would the Systema quality compare to the Guarder? Cheers for the help so far guys!! Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Ahhh, if it's going into a KA body then I wouldn't go with a G&P; I've had trouble fitting a G&P V2 into a KA body before due to some very minor dimensional tolernaces. Easily sorted with a file and 10 minutes of effort I'd imagine, but if that's the case a different brand might be a better option. As for Systema gearboxes, no. Systema is mainly a name - Their parts are far from leaps and bounds better than a lot of other manufacturers, yet the price difference is huge. Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Hmmm looks like I may be going for the Guarder box then and hoping it will live up to its price in reliability and quality? OR maybe I should just buy the clear M4 by King Arms and steal the gearbox? That way I am getting an extra mag and lots of M4 spares too? Hmmmmm......... Anyway many thanks for the help guys, much appreciated! Link to post Share on other sites
bladerunner168 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 If you want to go Systema, the only GB of theirs I could recommend to you is the Revolution. Yes, you could achieve a comparable setup with a FET and an upgraded GB shell and gears but it wouldn't be as elegant in design. I stuck one in my King Arms SR16 (lots of filing to be done inside) and it's now gone through around 30K worth of bb's without any serious hiccups. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I've had about 12 G&P AR AEG's before I moved onto GBBR's... Never had a mechanical failure in a single one, and no work required other than replacing the trigger contacts after 60-80K rounds, which was an £8 cost and 15 minutes of work. They're not POS if you want to run them in the UK climate at less than 400FPS, they are in fact excellent. If you're into crazy modding the batshit *fruitcage*ery out of everything, they might not be suitable, but for a stock gearbox intended for normal use in the UK they're excellent. Well I have owned a few and have worked on many. I don´t know what age models you have had, but here is my experience: Trigger contacts using a lipo can go in about 10k rounds, if you use electrical copper grease, you can extend this, but the metal itself bend away easily and loses contact. Spur gear axles snap like small twigs. Have had numerous (10+) G&P boxes that all have the same problem, other gears are better. Gearbox front part brakes easily when playing with minus degrees C. We had one game with -15C and almost we saw almost a 50% gearbox failure rate after that one game. Have also seen this often with guns that are stock and never seen minus degrees. Another thing I have often seen is back part of the piston ripped away due to bad AOE. Their motors require a lot of amps and get hot really quick. Plus some bad tolerances here and there, a lot of body wobble, bad FPS fluctuation due to bad hopup seal and hopup chamber floating around in the body. Plus a lot of feeding problems etc. P.S. All those things happened with guns up to 400FPS (that is the local limit for an AEG). Summer time +20C, winter time usually around -5 to +5 degrees C, sometimes colder but usually people don´t go out to play then. By now I do not recommend G&P AEG-s to anybody and prefer not to work on them either. King Arms are almost just as bad IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites
Baddbaz Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 + 1 to the above post Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Well I have owned a few and have worked on many. I don´t know what age models you have had, but here is my experience: Trigger contacts using a lipo can go in about 10k rounds, if you use electrical copper grease, you can extend this, but the metal itself bend away easily and loses contact. Spur gear axles snap like small twigs. Have had numerous (10+) G&P boxes that all have the same problem, other gears are better. Gearbox front part brakes easily when playing with minus degrees C. We had one game with -15C and almost we saw almost a 50% gearbox failure rate after that one game. Have also seen this often with guns that are stock and never seen minus degrees. Another thing I have often seen is back part of the piston ripped away due to bad AOE. Their motors require a lot of amps and get hot really quick. Plus some bad tolerances here and there, a lot of body wobble, bad FPS fluctuation due to bad hopup seal and hopup chamber floating around in the body. Plus a lot of feeding problems etc. P.S. All those things happened with guns up to 400FPS (that is the local limit for an AEG). Summer time +20C, winter time usually around -5 to +5 degrees C, sometimes colder but usually people don´t go out to play then. By now I do not recommend G&P AEG-s to anybody and prefer not to work on them either. King Arms are almost just as bad IMHO. I'm not disputing that at all, I've just never seen G&P failure rates like I read about on the forums. I've personally owned 12 (give or take, I forget the exact number) and I've seen another 15-20 at least in the hands of close friends. In all of those 30 odd gearboxes, I've heard of a broken trigger spring or two, and one or two broken pistons. Thing is, that's my personal experience - In that relatively big sample of G&P guns, they've always been rock solid, reliable, excellent externals and overall very good guns, perhaps with some hop tweaking required. At the same time, I've seen nothing but from King Arms, whilst others have had excellent results. There are plenty of people on here who also swear by G&P AEG's, and plenty of people who have had nothing but failures... It's a weird one really. It's kind of the same as 'What's the best hop rubber combination' - There is no right answer other than 'Buy a few and find out yourself', although that principle becomes a bit more expensive when it comes to gearboxes. Link to post Share on other sites
richwuk Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I had the Spur gear go on mine, If you go goggling for those failures you will find them easy enough! I did buy my G&P 2nd hand and not overly impressed with, where as I have a KA M4 MOE which I love! If the OP doesn't mind spending the extra £ or importing I'd go lonex. I've keep using there bits and generally like them and they seem generally well received on ASM as well. Link to post Share on other sites
TnL Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Figured I'd throw my two cents in again, ANTI G&P here, i have a very low opinion of them, for the reasons already stated, I can just reinforce those statements, about hte pistons specifically, they are quite possibly the worst stock pistons with maybe the exception of the old CA pistons, and in general i just think they're lower quality than their price justifies Link to post Share on other sites
gijohn2 Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Why spend £180 on a gear box that might not work! Seams crazy, get a JG/Dboys etc as mentioned above and if that don't fit drop the internals of that into your old KA box Link to post Share on other sites
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