Illinios to ban airsoft?

[strategery]

 

as they say in the "history" books these days... "the second amendment gives people the right to raise a militia". ok so the second amendment gives us the right to defend ourselves in case of attack? god they're dumb.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No the second amendment does not say "gives the people right to raise a militia."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Important part = bolded

 

 

This is where the people who claim the 2nd amendment is outdated because the need for a militia is not necessary due to the strength of the army are wrong. The wording was selected to fit the mood of the time, which was one of a militia rather than a military. However the point remains, as the second part of the statement is not exactly what you would call vague..

 

I figure you understand what the second amendment means, and this post is not meant as an attack. It's just that modern history books are so damned bias in so many cases, and this is especially prevalent in the US. Drives me up a damn wall sometimes.

[Rapier]

Actualy the same law that gives us the orange tips would blow that one out of the water.

 

 

(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions

The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—

(i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or

(ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

 

Full list of the 1988 toy gun laws

[Shadow_at_your_six]

SH!T half of my room could be illigal. Won't stop me from airsofting though

[HannibalSmith77]

Ladies and Gentlemen...lets all settle down a bit shall we?

 

I live in Illinois. I am currently in school in Kentucky. Here are the problems and issues we have.

 

1. Our governor is a Democrat and heavily opposes firearms. He has consistently come down on them and infuriates the southern part of the state.

 

2. Another problem is that Chicago's population makes up too much and are represented heavily while the southern part (which is the typical hunters and firearms users and so forth) had a much smaller say.

 

3. The NRA is a lobbying group. They will fight until death to keep our firearms and so forth. The big issue we run into is that we play with imitation toy guns. I really don't think that the bill will pass until Bagobitch (our gov.) gets rid of all REAL firearms.

 

4. The orange tip deal brought up earlier brings out a great point. The second amendment protects the right to bear arms. Until you see real guns disappear...it will be hard to convince to end fake ones. In the end...I don't see it stopping our sport. We're a country that builds monster trucks and does other crazy sh!t just because we can. Unless they enforce it...people will still play. I don't see any more need to discuss this until further issues arise.

 

Let's be positive about this. It's just a bill and has got a way to go for approval. I appreciate the UK bretheren's comments, but you're not helping. I know misery loves company and I TOTALLY sympathize with you...but it doesn't help to stir it up. Lets get further into this before we get crazy.

 

Hannibal

[Ghostbear]

strategery,

 

I think that the point that tmas was making is that "as they say in the "history" books these days... " is the point.

 

The 'new' history that is being taught doesnt specify that the second amendment is as you wrote, but is for milita only. So, if they can get the next generation to believe that, then they can have more 'power' to remove the guns from the country.

[ColSanders]

Grrr... stupid people...

Better not close down OFK...

 

Alex "Col Sanders"

[NamantH]

well im glad that as i hit the second page i see that we have a couple of people that know how to read.

 

As stated by GMB and hannibal, this will more than likely not include airsoft guns... the wording is too vague, that if it gets put into law, you will see a loose interpretation of it, which most cops prolly wouldnt enforce.

 

I wouldnt be worried about this, unless they try to set in motion a revision that does name airsoft guns specificaly. till then... dont fret... this aint going nowhere anytime soon.

[LawVol]

the lack of understanding of Constitutional law, and federalism, for that matter, is just staggering.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think the Second Amendment protects airsoft guns.

 

Oh, and there is no federal law establishing a drinking age of 21. All the states were coerced into changing their drinking age to 21 by the threat of reduced federal highway funding. This was upheld in South Dakota v. Dole.

 

I'm not even going to touch the Second Amendment "collective right" versus "individual right" argument. (though for the record, I do believe in the individual right interpretation)

 

Like has been already said, you should not worry too much about this bill. Democrats learned in the 90's that gun control is a losing issue. Proof: they didn't even put up much of a fight when the silly "Assault Weapons Ban" expired.

[Holmes]

^ Then can we get them lobbied as toys already? People cringe whenever I say "replica weapon", and if classified as a toy, wouldn't it be easier for them to go through customs and what not?

[PILMAN]

Wow this just sucks. I was born in Illinois and gun laws were already strict. My dad had to have a FOID card just to own guns and he got a felony because the card expired. Illinois is a HUGE liberal state and thats not to insult anyone. (Yeah I used the L word :X) . My girlfriend was attempting to get me to move back to Illinois but now she can forget about that, this really does suck, one of my teammates is from Illinois too and his parents have his guns up there he's been trying to get them to ship them down for some time. Hopefully this doesn't pass.

[strategery]

strategery,

 

I think that the point that tmas was making is that "as they say in the "history" books these days... " is the point.

 

The 'new' history that is being taught doesnt specify that the second amendment is as you wrote, but is for milita only. So, if they can get the next generation to believe that, then they can have more 'power' to remove the guns from the country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know hence the little disclaimer at the bottom.

 

"I figure you understand what the second amendment means, and this post is not meant as an attack. It's just that modern history books are so damned bias in so many cases, and this is especially prevalent in the US. Drives me up a damn wall sometimes. "

 

LawVol yes the 2nd amendment does not cover airsoft guns, that wasn't the intent. It covers FIREARMS which airsoft guns are not classified as. However, as already stated by somebody else, there are stipulations in a law passed in the 1980s pertaining to toy guns that says

 

(g) Preemption of State or local laws or ordinances; exceptions

The provisions of this section shall supersede any provision of State or local laws or ordinances which provide for markings or identification inconsistent with provisions of this section provided that no State shall—

(i) prohibit the sale or manufacture of any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or

(ii) prohibit the sale (other than prohibiting the sale to minors) of traditional B–B, paint ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure.

 

It'll get shot down on the basis of that confliction.

[theNAMmagazine]

::::Ripped from the CAA Boards::::

Note: The bill is unlikely to pass just because of the grand scale of items its going to ban, still if theres any arnie views out there in illinois that hasn't caught wind of this, make sure this bill gets the boot in the *albatross*.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I got great news! No, I didn't save any money on my car insurance because I don't obey lizards. The great news is, I spoke with the NRA at the last USAirsoft Expo in June of '05, and they said that they were already establishing a set of lawyers to assist the sport of airsoft and to help out with just this type of situation.

 

Please contact the NRA about your problem. They're more than willing to assist with seeing this law put down.

[Agent47]

 

I got great news!  No, I didn't save any money on my car insurance because I don't obey lizards.  The great news is, I spoke with the NRA at the last USAirsoft Expo in June of '05, and they said that they were already establishing a set of lawyers to assist the sport of airsoft and to help out with just this type of situation.

 

Please contact the NRA about your problem.  They're more than willing to assist with seeing this law put down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

wooo...very cool.

[singleshot]

I live in IL and although it is illegal to have weapons in Chicago, the rest of the state has maintains quite a bit of hunting and self defence weapons. Because this law has real weapons involved it will not pass. Hopefully they won't rewrite it excluding the real weapons because then we may be in trouble. Although I have to ask, how would it be growing up not being able to play soldier? what the heck?

[theNAMmagazine]

I live in IL and although it is illegal to have weapons in Chicago, the rest of the state has maintains quite a bit of hunting and self defence weapons. Because this law has real weapons involved it will not pass. Hopefully they won't rewrite it excluding the real weapons because then we may be in trouble. Although I have to ask, how would it be growing up not being able to play soldier? what the heck?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, you gotta hand it to the idiot politicians who think that taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens will somehow stop the criminals from committing crimes with them (when a majority are already felons who can't purchase them legally in the first place). There's an interesting fact here too. Within the context of that law, there aren't any exemptions for law enforcement/government officials.

 

By that rational, perhaps if we mandated legal sterilization of the stupid, the quality of life would improve here in the United States!

 

Question is, how many of these idiot politicians would fall under that category...

 

Something else to ponder, would a criminal consider actually committing a crime if he knew there was a strong possibility he might actually be turned into a pencil?

[Rapier]

Something else to ponder, would a criminal consider actually committing a crime if he knew there was a strong possibility he might actually be turned into a pencil?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That actualy kinda falls into the theory behind legalized conceal carry. You want to hold a guy up that may pull a legally obtained .357mag and blow your head off?

[Spartan117x]

All though not totally needed, petition anyone? All though the UK is larger, there is still the slight chance that it could be recognized as a law.

[LawVol]

LawVol yes the 2nd amendment does not cover airsoft guns, that wasn't the intent. It covers FIREARMS which airsoft guns are not classified as. However, as already stated by somebody else, there are stipulations in a law passed in the 1980s pertaining to toy guns that says

It'll get shot down on the basis of that confliction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's certainly a valid argument there, but I don't agree with your interpretation of that clause in the statute. The statute you quoted there is 15 USC 5001. Look a few lines up from the part you quoted to (c ). It reads:

 

"(c ) "Look-alike firearm" defined. For purposes of this section, the term "look-alike firearm" means any imitation of any original firearm which was manufactured, designed, and produced since 1898, including and limited to toy guns, water guns, replica nonguns, and air-soft guns firing nonmetallic projectiles. Such term does not include any look-alike, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure."

 

Notice that airsoft guns are specifically included in the definition of "Look-alike firearm." On the other hand, also notice that "traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet-firing air guns that expel a projectile throught the force of air pressure", the very guns that are specifically protected from state prohibition by the section (g), are not included in the definition of "Look-alike firearm." If you look at the Congressional Record on the floor debates for the bill, you can see that Congress did not intend any part of this statute to apply to regular BB guns (shooting metallic bb's) and pellet guns. In fact, Senator Dole even that mentions guns made by Daisy and Crosman are not to be subject to this law. That's why you don't see orange tips on the pellet guns and bb guns at Wal-Mart (which doesn't make much sense to me because there's some very realistic pellet guns, especially pistols), and that's why there's the state law preemption clause in (g). However, the inclusion of "air-soft guns firing nonmettalic projectiles" in the defintion of "Look-alike firearms" which are the subject of this statute clearly eliminates airsoft guns from being considered "traditional B-B, paint-ball, or pellet firing air guns that expel a projectile through the force of air pressure." Therefore, the preemption of state laws prohibiting the sale of such guns found in (g) does not apply to airsoft guns.

 

:::whew!!:::

 

Anyways, it's an interesting debate, but nobody outside airsoft forums really seems to care, so there's not much case law on it out there. Coalition of New Jersey Sportsmen v. Florio is probably the closest you can get to a "leading" case on it, but that case doesn't really have much to do with airsoft.

 

I'm in a bit of a rush, so perhaps I'll be able to come back later and edit this a little bit for clarity.

[Rapier]

The reason they did not include Airsoft in among the BB guns, Air guns and PB guns is that there is a power level diference. YOu can seriosly harm someone with a .177 or .22 cal airgun or, I suppose a PB gun due to the power level if you turn up your regulater. Most stock level airsoft guns are not going to injure a person unless shot in the eye. That is why our guns are still classified as toys or a "look-a like"

[intelboy15]

great....just great....the one sport i love dearly is about to be stripped from me before I even have a chance to enjoy it!

 

(extreme senario)

Federal Governent reenacts Patriot Act with a new President a lot worse than Bush. Proposes a new law to have a nation-wide ban on all military weapon replicas and real firearms. Only military personnel can be permitted to own, fire, or even carry one.

 

So in the above situation, we as citizen's of this great country are defenseless if a burgler decides to break into our homes, kidnap us, torture us, etc. Not to mention the U.S. government and various agencies can now do whatever they like without fear that us law-abiding citizens can do a **** thing to stop them.

 

This really ###### me off...next thing you know we can't even play video games that have a hint of violence. We'll all be look-alikes, talk-alikes, hell we'll all be the same person under a totalarian rule of one person.

 

Just Great. We're screwed along with the UK Airsoft Community. So what are we airsoft players gonna do if we can't even have airsoft replicas?

[tiksom]

This is not going to get anywhere unless your entire state legislature is full of complete morons.

Never underestimate the power of... well...

 

While the original bill will not go through, the strategy is usually:

- "ban everything",

- wait for certain groups to protest,

- slightly change the bill to reflect protests of influential groups,

- pass the bill saying "look, we are sooooo nice, we actually removed all the bad parts you've complained about!"

 

In the light of the outrageous original, the final version looks... ok :-/

[theNAMmagazine]

great....just great....the one sport i love dearly is about to be stripped from me before I even have a chance to enjoy it!

 

(extreme senario)

Federal Governent reenacts Patriot Act with a new President a lot worse than Bush.  Proposes a new law to have a nation-wide ban on all military weapon replicas and real firearms.  Only military personnel can be permitted to own, fire, or even carry one.

 

So in the above situation, we as citizen's of this great country are defenseless if a burgler decides to break into our homes, kidnap us, torture us, etc.  Not to mention the U.S. government and various agencies can now do whatever they like without fear that us law-abiding citizens can do a **** thing to stop them.

 

This really ###### me off...next thing you know we can't even play video games that have a hint of violence.  We'll all be look-alikes, talk-alikes, hell we'll all be the same person under a totalarian rule of one person.

 

Just Great.  We're screwed along with the UK Airsoft Community.  So what are we airsoft players gonna do if we can't even have airsoft replicas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The best thing you guys can do is stop crying and ranting, and ACT! Get off yer little butts and take a stand! Put an organization together and get with it! Otherwise, put your AEGs and GBBs on ebaY, wave bye-bye and sit there indian style waiting for these bills to pass.

 

As I stated before, the NRA has lawyers in place now to assist with this problem. Yes, they're a "real steel" organization but after speaking with them at last year's USAirsoft Expo, they understand the importance of airsoft and the ramifications of legislature banning it as it's one step closer to banning real firearms.

 

Contact your local NRA office and report the legislature to them. Maintain contact with them as well and together you'll beat down this bill that's attempting to pass. The future of airsoft in your state rests DIRECTLY on the shoulders of all the players in your state!

[AggressiveSports JB]

The bill has been altered to not ban or outlaw replicas and airsoft, but to make it a crime to use them in a "threatening manner". Which is silly because its already a crime to do that.

 

Thanks to local businesses and the NRA, the politician changed the bill to something that noone can complain about.

[theNAMmagazine]

The bill has been altered to not ban or outlaw replicas and airsoft, but to make it a crime to use them in a "threatening manner". Which is silly because its already a crime to do that.

 

Thanks to local businesses and the NRA, the politician changed the bill to something that noone can complain about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Funny, apparently, per Airsoft Retreat, Florida's going through the same issue but they're too lazy to look into it.

[hivemind]

The bill has been altered to not ban or outlaw replicas and airsoft, but to make it a crime to use them in a "threatening manner". Which is silly because its already a crime to do that.

 

Thanks to local businesses and the NRA, the politician changed the bill to something that noone can complain about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great news there, any links?