Shoot&Loot Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Cool vid. Hmmm.... where have I seen that beared SF guy before?... Link to post Share on other sites
rageman Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 eh? And how is that? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Basically attitude of the special forces, it stank. And the guys they're supposed to be training and helping to form the new armed forces seamed nothing more than an unruly mob. So much for hearts and minds. Link to post Share on other sites
PariahWolf Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Basically attitude of the special forces, it stank. And the guys they're supposed to be training and helping to form the new armed forces seamed nothing more than an unruly mob. So much for hearts and minds. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you need to do some explaining... Why does it stink? Seems ok to me, I mean I saw them stoping the Iraqi police beating people, I saw them NOT destroying property randomly. Seemed quite good to me. Seems all the people who know about this stuff think they are doing a fine job and then there's you saying they aren't doing a good job. Link to post Share on other sites
HaVoC Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Fact is, they were violent towards the people they were dealing with. The other fact is, if you were in a sh*thole like that for months on end, with people shooting at you, attempting to blow you up, attempting to shoot and blow your buddies up...wouldn't you pass the boundary of 'good nature' occasionally? Wouldn't you, if dealing with someone who had just shot an AK47 at you and your buddies, want to treat them with at least a little disdain? I know I would. Link to post Share on other sites
rageman Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I think you need to do some explaining... Why does it stink? Seems ok to me, I mean I saw them stoping the Iraqi police beating people, I saw them NOT destroying property randomly. Seemed quite good to me. Seems all the people who know about this stuff think they are doing a fine job and then there's you saying they aren't doing a good job. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well for a start, its not in Iraq... basically this is exactly the sort of stuff you saw in Vietnam. Sweeping through villages terrorising the populace. The people I saw in the vid where terrified, and at no point did I see any of the special forces liase with the elders of the village to try and calm it all down. Link to post Share on other sites
PariahWolf Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 LOL!!! The elders of the village are in full support of the terrorists. I didn't really see many frightened people, they are probably terrified because they are afraid of what the Americans will do when they find the weapons stashes, bombs, etc. Iraq/Afghanistan, basicly same situation. You have to realise that these people support the terrorists, meaning they can liase all they want, it won't get them anywhere. This isn't anything like what happened in Nam, villages basicly got executed in vietnam, here you saw the Americans acting on intelligence, raiding villages without casaulties and recovering weapons and ammo. Like Havoc said these guys have put up with being attacked for months on end, I saw them acting without excessive force and restraining the local police forces. Link to post Share on other sites
navymp28 Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Well for a start, its not in Iraq... basically this is exactly the sort of stuff you saw in Vietnam. Sweeping through villages terrorising the populace. The people I saw in the vid where terrified, and at no point did I see any of the special forces liase with the elders of the village to try and calm it all down. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL..dude...those people are more afraid of telling the guys that they are olding the stuff for that it got raided and they didn't kill the Americans. Those guys were being nice, one of the best points in the video was when the SF guy explained that the Afghans are still growing Opium because they have no other crops to grow in it's place. All those drugs they were seizeing and destroying are sold to buy the guns that you saw them seize and destroy, which in turn are used to kill coalition troops. The raids are not just necessary but imperative. Those SF doods weren't treating the Afghans any different than narcotics officers in the states doing inner city drug bust's that are basically the same..the drugs for money to get weapons. Like pariah said...nothing like Vietnam. Link to post Share on other sites
Dickens Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Fact is, they were violent towards the people they were dealing with. The other fact is, if you were in a sh*thole like that for months on end, with people shooting at you, attempting to blow you up, attempting to shoot and blow your buddies up...wouldn't you pass the boundary of 'good nature' occasionally? Wouldn't you, if dealing with someone who had just shot an AK47 at you and your buddies, want to treat them with at least a little disdain? I know I would. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Completely agree there with you. A very good friend of mine came back from Iraq a few months ago and while over there a member of his squad was KIA because of these idiots, i think if my friend had been killed id of felt **** so its only fair they treat them they was they do..... Link to post Share on other sites
teetee Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Wow, this turned into a *fruitcage*fest fast. The US/Coalition Special Forces actually impressed me though. Professional guys, did what they were sent to do without creating waves. I found the video disgusting for the fact that the US-allied Afghans were just as terrible as the people they were hired to fight. I dont see the justification in bashing the buttstock into an unarmed restrained individual or kicking an elderly man in the back who is already complying entirely. These people now form the army and government of the 'liberated' country. Anyway, this is a Gear Forum. *fruitcage* all your 'My friends from Iraq/Afghan' stories, and *fruitcage* my bitching about the Afghan troops. Link to post Share on other sites
rageman Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 LOL!!! The elders of the village are in full support of the terrorists. I didn't really see many frightened people, they are probably terrified because they are afraid of what the Americans will do when they find the weapons stashes, bombs, etc. Iraq/Afghanistan, basicly same situation. You have to realise that these people support the terrorists, meaning they can liase all they want, it won't get them anywhere. This isn't anything like what happened in Nam, villages basicly got executed in vietnam, here you saw the Americans acting on intelligence, raiding villages without casaulties and recovering weapons and ammo. Like Havoc said these guys have put up with being attacked for months on end, I saw them acting without excessive force and restraining the local police forces. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And you know all this material how? Whats to say that the village was lumped with the munitions under threat? Whats to say that the munitions where there prior to any talk of invasion of Afghanistan? Hell how do you know these guys even support the "terrorists"? What terrorists? As far as I know, the problem in Afghanistan is the one of trying to control warlord factions and bring peace. What really gets my goat, and its especially why I refer to this as having similarities to Vietnam is that once again the assumption is made that these people are the people who are shooting members of the Occupying forces. Its as if the actions of small portion of the populace is exacting revenge on the whole country. Sounds like airsoft in the Uk. The acts of a few unscrupulous chav's ends up getting the whole sport banned more or less. Link to post Share on other sites
Crandall Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 What really gets my goat, and its especially why I refer to this as having similarities to Vietnam is that once again the assumption is made that these people are the people who are shooting members of the Occupying forces. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To quote a PMC who does this *beep* for a living, If you find yourself trusting the locals its time to take a vacation. Link to post Share on other sites
PariahWolf Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 And you know all this material how? Whats to say that the village was lumped with the munitions under threat? Whats to say that the munitions where there prior to any talk of invasion of Afghanistan? If they where threatened then cooperating with the elders will still get them no where. They are there to find munitions, that's what they are doing. If they where there before the invasion? They still need to get rid of them. Hell how do you know these guys even support the "terrorists"? What terrorists? As far as I know, the problem in Afghanistan is the one of trying to control warlord factions and bring peace. Warlord factions, freedom fighters, terrorists. All the same thing to the government, all armed groups that need to be controlled. If they didn't support the terrorists then why do they have thousands of rounds of ammunition in their village? What really gets my goat, and its especially why I refer to this as having similarities to Vietnam is that once again the assumption is made that these people are the people who are shooting members of the Occupying forces. No, just No. Please think about what you are saying. There are no assumptions going on here. If the Americans thought these guys where the people shooting them don't you think they would shoot them? You know like in Vietnam, which you keep referring to out of context entirely. Those guys are SEARCHING the villages, acting on INTELLIGENCE and are NOT shooting anyone. They have not made any assumptions about the people, they have searched for, found and then removed munitions. They have not even arrested the people holding them unless they give them reason to. Its as if the actions of small portion of the populace is exacting revenge on the whole country. Sounds like airsoft in the Uk. The acts of a few unscrupulous chav's ends up getting the whole sport banned more or less. Please explain this bull *beep*. I didn't see anyone who didn't deserve it getting punished in that video. Being searched is not being punished, hell the police in this country could search your house right now if they had reasonable suspicion that you had a real gun in your house (pictures of airsoft guns ring a bell?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please stop spewing left wing media hype Link to post Share on other sites
sturgis Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 I think you need to do some explaining... Why does it stink? Seems ok to me, I mean I saw them stoping the Iraqi police beating people, I saw them NOT destroying property randomly. Seemed quite good to me. Seems all the people who know about this stuff think they are doing a fine job and then there's you saying they aren't doing a good job. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i've watched this vid before, and seeing how i speak Dutch i know what was said in it. it basicly deals about the way that SF personnel are working there, and how in somecases it makes things worse etc. i'll take a look at it again in a few, and i'll try to write down what the narrator is saying Link to post Share on other sites
rageman Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Please stop spewing left wing media hype <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Only if you stop spewing patriotic rubbish Link to post Share on other sites
S3Project Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Only if you stop spewing patriotic rubbish <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey man, why don't you go tell some Quiet Professionals how they should do their job? With all of your experience...reading newspapers...and online stories...and watching a 30 minute video. I'm sure they'd be enlightened by your infinite wisdom. Link to post Share on other sites
PariahWolf Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Only if you stop spewing patriotic rubbish <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't need to. No one on that video was British. Now guess where I come from? No please guess. Link to post Share on other sites
RobbyC Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 I am in agreement somewhat, yeah those guys go through a hell of a lot everyday but firstly before we go stating our opinions a few ground rules should be raised; 1. Afghanistan is NOT Iraq in the same way that Ireland isn't England, France isn't Germany and America isn't Mexico even though all three examples share borders (or as good as) They are all completely different entities and should be treated as such. 2. Secondly the drugs trade in afghanistan is relatively complex in it's workings - yes some drugs money is used to fund insurgents but an awful lot is simply used to keep people alive! yeah it maybe a bad thing heroine and opium but for them it's the equivalent to the irish potato - everyone's heard of the irish potato famine there could be parallels if Afghanistans staple product is cracked down upon with no ready alternative. 3. As none of us actually know what those particular guys have gone through in the film i don't think it's right, personally, to go condemning them or vindicating them for their actions - as none of us are in their shoes or have seen what they have seen i think we just have to accept what happened in the film for what happened seeing as we can't have a blind hope of knowing the full picture any conclusion would be unsoundly based. 4. It's the same with the Afghan forces supporting the US guys - none of us know what those people have suffered either from the taliban, from rival warlords, the list is relatively endless as to what COULD have happened and we have no idea whatsoever as to what has happened to them as we know NONE of them so i think one or two images of brutality should just be accepted - not condemned or vindicated. A very interesting video - shame it was in a language that only two countries of this world speak lol! one that raises questions but one that no one can draw safe conclusions from. My 2 cents (maybe i should say pence in to be patriotic for Pariah Wolf ), take it or leave it. Link to post Share on other sites
RobbyC Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Due to some weird stuff with the server my post hasn't been flagged and i can't edit it at all which is annoying - minor corrections then: second line should say laid not raised* and the last line remove that 'in' after pence and add a nice to show i'm only joking pariah Link to post Share on other sites
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