US raids into Pakistan authorized by Dubya

[Chimpy]

Now this is the sort of thing that we should be more worried about.

[expvideo]

Not having control over the tribal areas is also a really bad move by the Pakistani government/military... Been there... You leave the main roads, Pakistani laws don't apply anymore, and those guys are more than happy to blow up a checkpoint, kill a policeman or two.

 

So I can't blame the US for entering the lawless regions to take out trash.

The level of law enforcement in a region being lacking does not give us the right to cross their nation's boarders without permission. Regardless of how good our reasons are, we need to be working with the Pakistani government to find a resolution to this problem, not pretending that we have the authority to superceed their wishes and enter their country uninvited. That is an act of war, regardless of how tribal the area is, or how poorly enforced the laws are. There is no excuse to enter a country with military forces without getting permission from that country. None.

[AirsoftAddict]

Its ok let Bush Enter Pakistan to kill militansts. Problem is he also killed inocent women and children. Thats one way of rallying the country together against america. Well done Bush.

[Skarclaw]

Don't think he killed anyone, not that we know of at least, maybe in some drinking accident his youth, don't think he was personally sent to Pakistan to shoot the place up :/

[AirsoftAddict]

He probably did kill somebody when he was younger. He has that look of a man holding a big secret. Maybe , but you know what i meant, his troops. Besides he is the president, the buck stops at him

[Desolation mkII]

Now this is the sort of thing that we should be more worried about.

 

I'm not so sure that would be as big a problem as made out. I am sure whatever public face Pakistan might put on, Pakistan would need little prompting to go up and exterminate some of it's troublesome tribes with complete American support.

[AirsoftAddict]

Yeah the governmt would be more than happy, but joe public would not, its supposed to be a sovereign state. Joe publics view would be well if you (ie pakistani government) can let america waltz in the what the hell do we have an army for?? what stopping our neighbour India walking right in awell?

[Pablo]

Whoops!

 

Pakistan "fires on NATO aircraft"

[expvideo]

From that news story:

There is an imaginary border called the Durand line which each side marks differently.

 

I'm sure Pakistan doesn't see their national borders as imaginary. We need to respect their sovereignty and not cross their borders, not think of them as imaginary. I understand that the borders are unclear, but we need to give them the benefit of assuming that their borders stretch as far into Afghanistan as they think they do, because our relationship with Pakistan will only be hurt by not doing so, and we really need to build an alliance with them more than we need to do whatever we want.

[Chimpy]

The point is that the Durand line is under total dispute by almost everyone in the region and it isn't clearly delineated in any way (hence why it is imaginary). There isn't a hard border line as such and the Pakistani Military are camped on the wrong side of it in many cases. I agree it's not a terribly good choice of word to describe that though.

[expvideo]

The point is that the Durand line is under total dispute by almost everyone in the region and it isn't clearly delineated in any way (hence why it is imaginary). There isn't a hard border line as such and the Pakistani Military are camped on the wrong side of it in many cases. I agree it's not a terribly good choice of word to describe that though.

Yeah, I understand the situation. Calling it imaginary is very condescending to the situation though, and doesn't show a whole lot of respect to Pakistan. I think that at this point we need to respect whatever the Pakistanis think their border is, regardless of what the Afghanis think it is, because we need to be working on mutual understanding to get some cooperation from Pakistan, not doing what we want and telling them to back off. We need their help in the war on terror, not to be facing off with them over something as silly as a 4km border discrepancy.

[Chimpy]

Sure. I agree with that as well bearing in mind that we also need the support of the local tribes and the Afghani's it's probably not prudent to take anyones side in the border dispute. I do think you are putting too much emphasis on the use of the word imaginary though as they do explain the situation clearly in the following paragraphs.

[expvideo]

You're probably right

[Wingman]

Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that their goverment and military have been so incredibly corrupt for so many years. The fact that they have knowingly allowed these militants to base on their side of the border with impunity for years and only when it was shown to the world, did they make any moves to force them out. The greed and corruption in that country is just incredible.

 

You want to keep someone from comming into your country and bombing civilians? Then you make it really "expensive" for them or anyone who sides with them to operate there.

 

You allow these animals to use your country to hide and your just looking for what they've been getting the last few months. Bombings of civillians to promote fear and unrest.

 

Pakistan had best get its "sierra" together and figure this out.

[expvideo]

Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that their goverment and military have been so incredibly corrupt for so many years. The fact that they have knowingly allowed these militants to base on their side of the border with impunity for years and only when it was shown to the world, did they make any moves to force them out. The greed and corruption in that country is just incredible.

 

You want to keep someone from comming into your country and bombing civilians? Then you make it really "expensive" for them or anyone who sides with them to operate there.

 

You allow these animals to use your country to hide and your just looking for what they've been getting the last few months. Bombings of civillians to promote fear and unrest.

 

Pakistan had best get its "sierra" together and figure this out.

I'll address each of your points. I've highlighted them in colors, and I will address them in the color they are highlighted in:

 

This doesn't give us the right to cross their borders without permission.

This doesn't give us the right to cross their borders without permission.

This doesn't give us the right to cross their borders without permission.

This doesn't give us the right to cross their borders without permission.

 

Any questions?