Madbull 12ga Shells for RS Shotguns

[bankz5152]

I see why the tanka Casiopea (spelt wrong?) was banned as I thinknits used a spring operated firing pin.

 

Airsoft shells are way smaller or way bigger so fitting RS shells is near impossible.

 

I was thinking on the lines of the Wa Shan double barrels, gas charged shells and a firing system similar to that of a airsoft 40mm. Could that not be incorporated to a pump action then using similar manufacturing and materials as RS shotguns to create a reliable relatively powerful shotty?

[teflon don]

I see why the tanka Casiopea (spelt wrong?) was banned as I thinknits used a spring operated firing pin.

correct me if im wrong

but i think the casiopea was banned because the shells could be charged with greengas which made them shoot harder than the Japanese legal limit

[bankz5152]

wouldnt explain why it was banned in many other countries, to my understanding it was that they 'could' be slightly converted to fire real shells.

[teflon don]

i didn't know it was banned in other country's i thought they where just destroyed in japan

[P.S.I.]

if someone gets killed with a real shot gun with real ammunition than it has nothing to do with airsoft

police officers train with real guns all the time (simunition)or soldiers train with real guns with blank rounds either way they can load real munition by mistake

 

You are incorrect sir.

Simunitions require a conversion kit that does NOT allow live rounds to be chambered. As for blanks...Most automatic weapons require a Blank Firing Adapter (BFA) to fire blanks. Firing a live round with a BFA attached is significantly more dangerous for the operator than for anyone else.

 

The use of a real firearm with any training ammunition should always involve some means of preventing the cambering of live ammunition. To do otherwise is dangerous, irresponsible, and quite possibly legally negligent.

 

I for one, hope the MB shell never sees the light of day, unless there is a design change that prevents chambering a live round. As is, it is a colossally BAD idea.

[teflon don]

You are incorrect sir.

Simunitions require a conversion kit that does NOT allow live rounds to be chambered.

in belgium a police officer was shot during a simunition training (the other guy was handed the wrong gun)

 

blanks...Most automatic weapons require a Blank Firing Adapter (BFA) to fire blanks. Firing a live round with a BFA attached is significantly more dangerous for the operator than for anyone else.

your point is invalid

it would still count as an firearm related incident due to improper handling (same as the potential madbull shells)

 

nothing is fool proof if everyone is afraid of worst case scenarios than nothing would have been invented

[hwagan]

 

it would still count as an firearm related incident due to improper handling (same as the potential madbull shells)

 

 

It'd probably get recorded as such in the accident book or whatever, but in the eyes of the media it'd be a case of Madbull shells made by an Airsoft toy company? The ones that, in the event of a worst case scenario, would link a training death to our sport?

 

nothing is fool proof if everyone is afraid of worst case scenarios than nothing would have been invented

 

Everyone being afraid of worst case scenarios is the reason simmunition weapons require conversion kits, RS weapons require BFA's, etc. The madbull shell idea is just plain stupid, in so many different ways.

 

Yes, there has to be a method to realistically train LE/Military personnel - But airsoft shells to go in an RS shotgun are not the way to do it. It's a hell of a lot easier to get the wrong ammunition than it is to get the wrong gun; And if a cop in Belgium was given the wrong gun, then clearly it's going to be more than possible to get ammunition mixed up.

 

The madbull shells are a horrendously bad, stupid, dangerous idea, no matter how long this debate goes on for.

[aznriptide859]

teflon don, are you aware of the saying "better safe than sorry"? That is where everyone's concerns are coming from - sure you can be as cautious as you want regarding firearm transport and storing, but WHAT IF a real round were to be accidentally loaded instead of the Madbull shell? WHAT IF that round were to be discharged during an airsoft game? Tragedy will strike, and there WILL be a s***storm that hits the airsoft community. So, to prevent such an occurrence, the shells should not be made, period.

 

Also, the reason the Tanaka SAA was banned was that it could actually strike a real cartridge and discharge the round, making it a firearm, with no modifications to the gun at all. Japan is VERY tight regarding firearm laws, so the weapon was banned (I don't think Tanaka markets outside Japan, could be wrong, so a ban in Japan would just be a "ban worldwide"). Japan's police heavily raided Tanaka's factories and destroyed the existing models, which is why the Casyopea system is so rare and why all of Tanaka's current revolvers are gas-in-cylinder types.

[bankz5152]

On further research it looks like the shells have been cancelled as the last bit of information about them was allmost 3 years ago.

[P.S.I.]

in belgium a police officer was shot during a simunition training (the other guy was handed the wrong gun)

 

 

your point is invalid

it would still count as an firearm related incident due to improper handling (same as the potential madbull shells)

 

nothing is fool proof if everyone is afraid of worst case scenarios than nothing would have been invented

 

My point about BFAs is that you cannot shoot someone else with a live round if the BFA is attached.

 

 

Would you be comfortable having someone pointing a REAL shotgun at you? Would you be okay trusting a stranger to ensure that they have ONLY airsoft rounds for said real shotgun?

 

It's ASKING for someone to be shot accidentally. It the idea "cool"? Sure, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[teflon don]

Would you be comfortable having someone pointing a REAL shotgun at you? Would you be okay trusting a stranger to ensure that they have ONLY airsoft rounds for said real shotgun?

if i was in a professional police training situation then yes i would thrust the guy as much as he trust me in the fact i didn't accidentally took the wrong gun

 

sure you can be as cautious as you want regarding firearm transport and storing, but WHAT IF a real round were to be accidentally loaded instead of the Madbull shell? WHAT IF that round were to be discharged during an airsoft game? Tragedy will strike, and there WILL be a s***storm that hits the airsoft community. So, to prevent such an occurrence, the shells should not be made, period

depending on what country you live in (rational or emotional)chances are they are going to blame the guy (who brought a real gun into a airsoft game) rather than blame airsoft

[-Angel-]

if i was in a professional police training situation then yes i would thrust the guy as much as he trust me in the fact i didn't accidentally took the wrong gun

You missed the reference earlier to the policeman who shot someone with a "blank" .357? or the military demonstration in france in 2008 when a soldier shot 17 members of the audience after mistakenly loading a live magazine?

[ECRRRainman]

Training with REAL/LIVE weapons is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea. As stated earlier, simunition weapons are converted so they cannot chamber live rounds or require a BFA which prevent the firing of live ammunition.

 

Sim weapons are purposefully marked in different colors or the BFA is colored differently thus there is an easy VISIBLE assurance the weapon is safe for training.

 

You say there was a Belgium Police officer shot during a sim training because he was handed the wrong weapon? I ask, Why the *fruitcage* aren't the sim weapons CLEARLY marked?

 

You also state you would trust that other person to point a real gun at you in a training exercise if you were the police. Again I refer to the Belgium P.O. you mentioned, do you think he trusted his buddy who ended up shooting him? Do you think trust has ANYTHING to do with mistaking sim weapons with real weapons if they aren't marked differently?

 

The madbull shell is a BAD idea for airsoft skirmishing, it is a HORRIBLE idea for actual training. mixing up live ammo for training ammo is MUCH easier if both can be loaded into a live weapon.

 

Weapon safety (when it comes to lethal/less lethal weapons) is better left to having a SPECIFIC weapon for either roles

 

reference pics:

 

Hey! Guess which one is OK to point at your fellow officers during a training exercise!

[teflon don]

You say there was a Belgium Police officer shot during a sim training because he was handed the wrong weapon? I ask, Why the *fruitcage* aren't the sim weapons CLEARLY marked?

no idea

most police officers are retards (in belgium anyway)

 

You also state you would trust that other person to point a real gun at you in a training exercise if you were the police. Again I refer to the Belgium P.O. you mentioned, do you think he trusted his buddy who ended up shooting him? Do you think trust has ANYTHING to do with mistaking sim weapons with real weapons if they aren't marked differently?

of course trust has something to do with it

people get guns because the government trust then that they won't do anything stupid

even with simunition you thrust the other guy that he hasn't done anything stupid like reloading his munition and made it to hot by accident

 

The madbull shell is a BAD idea for airsoft skirmishing, it is a HORRIBLE idea for actual training.

and what about training for ipsc or 3gun competition

i already said that a real gun doesn't belong on a airsoft field (its like saying that a tank is stupid because someone might use it in a demolition derby )so stop using that as an argument

 

its clear that we won't come to an agreement on this subject so i won't continue talking about it

i think its somewhat of a good idea because i consider gun owners smart and responsible

you guy's think its horrible because you consider that every human is retarded

[ECRRRainman]

most police officers are retards (in belgium anyway)

 

First, How long have you been a LEO in Belgium? I would assume you have some sort of first hand experience in their field to make such a comment that they are all retards...

 

even with simunition you thrust the other guy that he hasn't done anything stupid like reloading his munition and made it to hot by accident

 

"By accident". The best way to prevent this sort of "accident" from happening is to use WEAPONS that cannot fire LIVE rounds for training in the first place. Its not a matter of assuming everyone with a gun is retarded, its because "*suitcase* happens" and its called "weapons safety". I trust everyone I have trained with but *suitcase* can happen at any time at any place, and I sure as hell don't want to take a 12ga to the chest for it

 

ipsc or 3gun? SURE! I guess it can serve as a cheaper method of training for that, because you don't point your gun at someone during it...

[teflon don]

I would assume you have some sort of first hand experience in their field to make such a comment that they are all retards

i didn't say they where all retards just most of them

im sorry if im going to offend people by what im about to say but its the truth

in belgium if you drop out of school and suck in every possible way there are only 2 ways to go police school or military

so if you lack the discipline to go to the army you end up as a police officer

also police officers don't get allot of money, they don't earn respect, they are used to do stuff that other people are to lazy to do (like fill in car crash papers)oh and the best part is that they don't fight crime in any way (thank god that Belgium has such a good legal system)

and most people hate them because the only thing they are good at is writing out speeding tickets

 

of course there are smart people who start as an police officer but eventually they become an inspector so good cops make promotion and sucky ones stay officer

so i think you can see that i don't consider cops to be Belgium's best en brightest