TheFull9 Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 So I've spend a couple of hours down in the garage today filing/drilling and all that good stuff, got some work done, but one improvement I've always wanted to try and make functional on various different ARs is still getting the better of me. Right now I've got 3 Marui EBB AR-15s and 4 WA System GBBRs that could all very much benefit from the addition of a battery assist device, but despite various attempts over the last couple of years I am still left with the massive 1st world problem of having to lift my reaction hand up to the side of the lower receiver and press a little button, rather than just flicking my trigger finger on a lever. Now when it comes to the TM guns I know what the problem is, I just need to carefully bend the lower portion of the lever to prevent it fouling on the area of the lower receiver inside of the trigger guard which is a different profile to the RS. I'll probably try and find a cheap clone at some point to test it out. However I had another go at fitting my RS and WE/PTW type BADs to one of my WOCs today and remembered how far off they are from actually being able to function. The issue arises (from what I can see) in that the bolt catch & release on live firing ARs has something of a gap between the actual paddle and the upper receiver, all my GBBRs do not. The BAD will fit on to the paddle no problem with the upper receiver hinged open/separated, but even on USGI uppers the extra material that the battery assists adds between the paddle and the receiver itself causes the bolt catch to be pushed out in to the 'mag's run dry' position at all times. Even worse on the VLTOR uppers that all my skirmishing rifles have, because those have more material that forms a sort of hollow encapsulating the paddle on the bolt catch, exacerbating the interference with the BAD even more. I've looked very closely at the area where the interference is occurring precisely, had a file right there in my hand ready to go at one stage. Also switched out the original G&P catch for an RA-Tech part which has a much thinner paddle and therefore more stand-off between said paddle and the upper, but the issue remains. When I looked in closely, even after fitting the RA-T catch I'd have to file so much material from the locking portion of the BAD that it would seriously compromise the integrity of the whole component when in use, or even in terms of fitment to the rifle. So if there is anyone out there who's encountered this problem and managed to work around it with either some metal working or purchasing other parts I'd like to hear from you. Especially if anybody's tried the PTS BAD lever for WA system guns, because that does work in a slightly different fashion, but it's fairly pricey to take a gamble on and the pictures of it do indicate that it would likely cause the same problem if installed on my guns. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Isn't there a WA PTW specific BAD lever ? http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/magpul-pts-b-a-d-lever-for-wa-m4-m16-gbb.html Link to post Share on other sites
SixtyNiner Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 I can't help with your main problem, but I did fit a WA/PTW type BAD lever to my Marui recoil rifle without any problems at all. Works a dream, no need for reshaping etc. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'm sure racing maniac put a RS BAD on a WA spec AR with just some grinding on the back of the bolt catch. I'm sure he can elaborate though. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Isn't there a WA PTW specific BAD lever ? http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/magpul-pts-b-a-d-lever-for-wa-m4-m16-gbb.html Well yeah, that's why I mentioned it in that last paragraph. But like I say, if you look at the pictures of that particular model it's still a sizable chunk of metal that would sit in the same area as the RS or WE/PTW type would when attached to a normal bolt catch. I don't think it was built with the VLTOR uppers in mind either; can't remember exactly but I think it came out before G&P started releasing those for the WOC line. I mean I'd hope it would work obviously, but PTS seem to have stopped making them so there's not much stock around. One place I did find to have some is charging ~£40 before shipping, which is a bit much to roll the dice on. I'm yet to see anyone that has fitted that exact product, and unfortunately that picture on eHobby's site is a Stickman photo of a real AR with a real BAD. So at this point, from what I can tell, I'm educatedly-guessing ( ) based on the work I've done today that the same issue is likely to occur, even using the WA specific version on my particular guns. I can't help with your main problem, but I did fit a WA/PTW type BAD lever to my Marui recoil rifle without any problems at all. Works a dream, no need for reshaping etc. Yeah it does seem to have worked out for some people, just a tolerance thing I guess, pot luck. Tried all of my SOCOMs and no luck for me sadly. When the mag's empty the lever hits the lower receiver before the bolt catch can swing outwards all the way, so you just carry on dry firing. I'm sure racing maniac put a RS BAD on a WA spec AR with just some grinding on the back of the bolt catch. I'm sure he can elaborate though. I believe he has Prime spec receivers which are probably a bit less flabby than the G&P ones, could possibly be how it works? My main problem unfortunately is that even with the RA-T catch (which is basically an already ground-down version of the G&P) the amount of interference is still pretty severe. Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I did it to both WOC and Prime spec receiver....nothing 5 mins and an angle grinder can't fix... http://www.pbase.com/racingmaniac/image/117841645 The goal is basically make the tennis paddle thin enough(from the back) so the BAD can be bolted together properly. Once thats taken care of it should work properly... I've never worked with the PTS version of the lever though, I know the WE/PTW type is like the RS where the BAD envelopes the paddle, so I think as long as it fits it should be ok? This is WOC: Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 That's handy RM, thank you. Any idea roughly how much you material you removed? I'm kind of surprised in a way because my BAD pretty much clamps fully together around the paddle. I'd presumed that if I actually filed away enough material to make it function then the lever would end up fitting extremely loosely (if at all). Don't suppose by any chance you also have a picture from above and/or below just to help get an idea of how it all looks exactly when complete? I won't hold my hopes out but it's always worth asking. Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'll snap some tonight...granted at this point they will be pic on my IA receiver, which is Prime spec. I'll do it for both the IA upper(regular AR style) and Prime upper(MUR style)... Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Perfect, thanks. Did you take a measurement or anything like that when you originally did the work? By the looks of it you didn't remove a great deal of material from the catch itself, which does surprise me I have to say because the interference seems pretty bad on my rifles. Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 That is also the WOC in that pic, which is the original one I did. I have done a different one for my current IA based gun. IIRC I was using the IA bolt catch, but if I am perfectly honest I cannot remember if that is the case(if I were to narrow it down, it'll be either the IA one or a TAF one). The original WOC had a G&P one that came with the WOC. I might try to dig up a bolt catch I might still have lying around and see how thick it is compare to my modified one. Both time as long as the BAD is able to bolt together properly(as it it just pinch the paddle, but not letting the front and rear separate too much, I have no problem with the function... Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Alright here goes... I did some rough measurement with a pair of calipers. The BAD paddle by itself is about 0.328" thick, installed on the bolt release and tightened, its about 0.331" thick. So there is some clamping. On a IA Larue receiver(standard AR style exterior): With the bolt locked back: The BAD does contact the receiver slightly at the upper when the bolt is in battery. As witness by the wear mark on the receiver: And on the BAD iteself: The modified paddle look like this: I ended up adding some masking tape on the paddle to shim it out to take out some play. Note also the tape is added to the outside, which for some minute amount pushes the BAD further away from the receiver. Also note that in the pic the paddle is in the locked position as an empty mag is in the receiver to help it standing for pic purpose. Bare paddle clearance to the IA receiver: Locked back: Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Nice one, appreciate the time taken, thanks. As I suspected it's a case of removing from the back and adding to the front. I think I've got a spare G&P catch in a packet somewhere that I can use as a guinea pig, hopefully with enough modification it'll work. Still not sure if it'll function with the Magpul type lower I've got on one rifle seeing as that has extra ribs in the area above the trigger on the left side, which would be rather ironic. Should be alright with the standard lower long as I can get it moved away from the upper a sufficient amount. Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Onto the Prime MUR upper: The clearance as you can see is actually more than the standard style receiver. With the BAD installed: Locked back: And BAD's contact point on the upper: Forgot to add, the lever portion of BAD touches the lower receiver when locked back at the edge of the lower on top of the trigger area. And the in the locked position, the standard upper to the top of BAD lever is about 0.120" apart. And with the MUR, its about 0.140" apart. Link to post Share on other sites
RacingManiac Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Also no points deducted for dirty/dusty gun....lol Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Winner, excellent resource RM thank you mate. Helps to know that it's not going to be as impossible as I thought it might be at first looking. I'll be sure to post up again in a week or two when I've been back home to have a crack at doing the work. Link to post Share on other sites
Pkekyo-Nor Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Anyone got a shot of a BAD lever on a HK416? I'm getting conflicting reports on it working or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.