St Matt Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Hi, I'm having a bit of a problem with my TM 1911 in that when you fire it it won't cycle the slide fully anymore. It seems to fire the bb ok but then you have to physically rack the slide to fire again? Mine has got a Guarder metal kit on it but has worked fine for some time after that was installed and the slide does not seem overly stiff/tight and doesn't seem to have any obstructions? I wondered if it might be a blockage somewhere and not enough gas is getting through activate the blow back? Anyone come across anything like this before? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Dagonet Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 When my GBB do this it's either too cold for the gas being used, or the slide rails are really dirty. I can do 500-700 rds a day through mine and tend to give it a strip and relube halfway through the day. If it's not cold or dirty sticky grease then the rocket valve might want looking into. Could be several reasons why it's doing it. First step is strip and clean and try again, all controls and functions operate smoothly and as intended, if problem is still there then investigate further. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Check your loading nozzle for cracks, and make sure it can move freely, as in, when extended, it snaps back to position easily. Also see if the floating valve inside it is still in one piece. Cycling issues not caused by simple lubrication issues are usually related to the loading nozzle or floating valve. Thankfully both are relatively easy parts to replace, and easy to find. Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I assume that during a cycle, the slide is going back at least somewhat. Does it seem like it's travelling less far back. Or is it just the hammer is now not being cocked during a cycle? Instead of racking the slide normally, can you manually cock the hammer and get a shot off? Could be many things. Cheapest thing to try first is lubricating the cup or O-ring on piston head inside the BBU. Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions guys. Mimesis, yes the slide does go back a bit, just enough to half cock the hammer but not totally cock it and also not far enough to load the next bb, therefore you have to rack the slide by hand. Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Yes, so this is definitely a compression issue or a lubrication issue or both. The slide is not going fully back either because it's being mechanically impeded, or because there's not enough gas pushing it (some gas is escaping). Definitely clean and lube the rails and inside the slide where the rails fit. Take out the BBU, slip out the nozzle, and inspect the piston head. Check for any tears or imperfections. Lubricate. Reassemble. Check. If that's not it, you may be looking at the nozzle itself, or the rocket valve in the nozzle. Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Mimesis, many thanks for the advice I will give your suggestion a try and let you know how I get on. Thanks again guys! Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Ok I have been through everything you guys suggested, it's all clean, lubed and checked for piston problems. The slide actually racks very nicely WHEN the hammer is already back however when you try to rack it to cock the hammer as well (like it has to when firing) it does seem quite an effort to initially get the hammer to start moving. It certainly takes more effort than it it does on my other TM pistol although that's an M9. Could it be a problem with the hammer spring or something else involved with the hammer actuation? Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 What gas are you using? Certainly, if you have an upgraded hammer spring in there, I can cause problems with proper cycling. I've encountered that problem with a Guarder kit, as has LaZouche Custom also with a Guarder kit. But as it was working OK before the current problems developed, I discounted that. How long did it work OK? Do you have a 150% hammer spring in there? Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 It's just the Guarder green gas that I use and no I haven't upgraded the hammer spring it's just the standard Marui one. It has worked ok for a while after the Guarder body was fitted but to be fair I don't use it that often so it may be a Guarder body issue that just hasn't shown its self til now? Maybe I should send it off to a professional? Head scratcher!! Link to post Share on other sites
Senor Bear Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 When I fitted the Guarder kit to an A1, it required a LOT of racking to get it to operate smoothly. Also check to make sure your gas can isn't on the empty side.I have since stopped using the Guarder slide and gone back to plastic, so much snappier and more gas efficient! Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Ok still no joy with this. I have checked all the valves and piston bits and bobs and they all look clean and in good order, they are also all nicely lubed. Question, when you rack the slide should the BBU stay in the barrel a little and then snap back? What I mean is if you slowly pull the slide back should the black plastic part with the piston in remain attached to the barrel part for part of the slides travel and then let go and spring back? My 1911 does not do this however my M9 does (both TM). Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Question, when you rack the slide should the BBU stay in the barrel a little and then snap back? What I mean is if you slowly pull the slide back should the black plastic part with the piston in remain attached to the barrel part for part of the slides travel and then let go and spring back? My 1911 does not do this however my M9 does (both TM). Yes it should. If you can open the chamber (so rack the slide) past the point where the outer barrel is entirely under the slide and you still have the nozzle stuck forward then maybe look at the nozzle spring or how tight the fit on the kit is. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Thanks Fireknife, however, my 1911 does not stay in the barrel part at all. As soon as you start to pull the slide back the BBU part immediately lets go. So by the sounds of it, it should stay in the barrel for for part of the slides travel? Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes, remember for a good air seal you want the nozzle part of the loading nozzle to be a tightish fit in the back of the hop-up unit. (No comments, FK!) As the slide goes back, the return spring in the BBU that operates on the nozzle becomes more and more compressed until it breaks the nozzle free from the hop-up. About half way back in the slide's total travel is a reasonable rule of thumb. If the nozzle isn't a good fit in the hop-up you won't get good compression, and then the slide will only cycle weakly. Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Ok I have just tried it with a loaded mag in and the BBU does indeed stay in the hop up bit so that's working. Oddly enough tho if you hold the gun upside down and fire it it cycle a lot better! It doesn't work every time but more times than when held normally??? Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Also I have just noticed that the slide where the BBU sits is getting very cold and that's not from rapid firing. Also the mags are emptying their gas very quickly! Could it be that too much gas is being released and freezing things up? Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Might be a very slow leak? Or have you changed the hammer spring at all? If not it may be due to that. Not really sure without getting a look at it. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 How old are your mags? A friend of mine's 1911 mags are now classed as ancient relics; Due to so much use, the BBU/Loading nozzle has ripped the gas routers. It's hard to explain, so here's a crudely drawn image on paint (Also featuring a duck to help explain, because why the hell not?). The image shows the top of the magazine, with the router being the large black square at the bottom; After the loading nozzle has gone over the mag an awful lot of times, the gas router can tear at the sides as shown in red, leading to pretty poor gas efficiency, cold loading nozzle, etc etc. Might be worth a check? Link to post Share on other sites
St Matt Posted March 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Thanks FireKnife and hwagan for the suggestions. The hammer spring is standard and the mag top rubber bits seem to be in good order. What i have done tho is thoroughly lube the piston and related gubbins and shim the mags so the rubber bit sits higher and this seems to have done the trick, I can now easily fire 18 BB's and thats with the odd double tap too. And the slide is cycling much much better, and it locks back when the mags empty too. However this is all at room temp so not sure how well it would cope out on the skirmish field but i will try it when the days get warmer. Once again, thanks guys! Oh and hwagan - love the pic!!! Link to post Share on other sites
hwagan Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 No problem man - It's often a seemingly unfixable problem that'll have you scratching your head will magically dissapear after a good clean and a tear-down. Glad it all works! As for cold weather useage, assuming it's not freezing temperatures, just load 7 rounds in the mag - You should have enough juice to fire that many unless it's *really* cold - Obviously the warmer it gets the more efficient it'll be! Link to post Share on other sites
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