bankz5152 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Been playing Halo pretty much solid for the past two days and been using the shotgun in it a lot. For those that don't know the magazine tube is on the top along with the loading port/gate. To me this seems very sensible. As in things like Practical Shotgun to load quickly it involves manipulating the shotgun in all sorts of ways, most commonly flipping it upside down. If the tube was on the top, no flipping. Shotgun stays near enough on target and enables the shooter to reload easily and return to fire position far quicker. As for aiming etc.. It wouldnt be very different from an Over & Under, or various other high sight firearms (P90, Kriss etc..) Maybe not great for slugs but they arent used as much as buckshot etc.. So why don't they exist? Or why have they never been thought of outside of Halo? Can't imagine it would be that tough. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Only yobs and actors turn a shotgun upside down to load it... Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 There's probably a reason. The UTS-15 tried it but from what I gather, it's not so great. Then there's the Neostead but I don't know much about that. I would imagine there are some design hurdles to get past seeing as you're loading and ejecting from the same place. Even the 1887 has problems. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 What you really should be asking is why do shotguns use a loading technology that was considered obsolete for rifles 70 years ago and obsolete for pistols over 100 years ago. Seriously, why are there so few detachable magazine shotguns? I can only think of a few, Siaga12, H14, AA12 and the USAS12, probably others though. Link to post Share on other sites
amateurstuntman Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 There are loads of Soviet top loading shotguns. I thought you meant airsoft ones. Magazines are the way forward though. I think if you got a Valtro that self loaded and had the Benelli system whereby it knows if it has fired or if the bolt has been pulled back manually then you'd have the perfect shotgun. Mag fed, easy slug switch, semi, 14" barrel with high capacity mags. Ideal. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I guess the make up of the typical shotgun round makes it ideal for tube fed guns as there's no pointed projectile coming into contact with a primer. Then add the fact that in today's world, shotguns are not really considered weapons of war like assault rifles. Pretty much anything you'll need a shotgun for, breaching primarily I guess, can be done with the limited capacity of a tube mag. There's really no need to spend time and money on mag fed shotguns. Even if it was cool. I mean, the AA12 is perhaps the pinnacle of shotgun tech and that's going nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Mag fed, easy slug switch, semi, 14" barrel with high capacity mags. Ideal. More than 10 12bores in a single magazine makes for a very bulky magazine and a hard changeover. You're better off sticking to less than 10 shots for the sake of practicality. Also, properly set up flechette loads are the future, hit probability of buck shot and range of a slug. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 As for flipping nope. Should see the guys I shoot with, load 8 rounds in under 2 seconds. Loading 2 at a time with 4 in a hand. I Why would you be loading and ejecting from the same place? Why couldnt it be like the same as a regular shotgun does but upside down? As hitman said 12G mags are ENOURMOUS almost double thickness of a std M4 mag and much longer. Where you can have the rounds inline with the shotty saving space. Last thing i heard flechette rounds where 'banned' under a similar law to cluster bombing. I may well be very wrong here. Regardless, top loading shotty. When I say top loading, i meant into a tube like modern shottys but upside down? One hurdle i could imagine is after some time the barrel will get hot. On this made up model I imagine the pump would be around the barrel. So could melt the pump or the pump could get too hot. What are the soviet ones? Link to post Share on other sites
FireKnife Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Sight over bore ratio? Kinda useless on a shotgun but could be? Perhaps as it is just 'the system' that everyone uses and has been that way since. I mean loading from the top might be a tad tougher too as with loading from below your hand is already on the same level as the loading space, if on top you have to shift the gun around to get to the top, making it tougher. 'FireKnife' Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Suppose it depends on how you load, though this is one of the fastest. 25 seconds or so in. Has 4 rounds in his hand, loads 2 from the inner palm then the other two. With practice VERY fast, much faster than grabbing four from the right and loading one by one. Now if you could that without flipping it cuts time off a reload. While being in a complete fire position. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Why would you be loading and ejecting from the same place? Why couldnt it be like the same as a regular shotgun does but upside down? I raise you the Ithica M37, ejects directly downwards through the same hole you stick the shells into. What you are imagining is an upside down Ithica. As hitman said 12G mags are ENOURMOUS almost double thickness of a std M4 mag and much longer. Where you can have the rounds inline with the shotty saving space.Single stack magazine holding 8 rounds is comparable to a 30 round stanag, a 5 shot mag is the same lenght as a 20 round 7.62nato mag. Very manageable. Last thing i heard flechette rounds where 'banned' under a similar law to cluster bombing. I may well be very wrong here.Never heard this before, source? ...pump...Why pump? Non automatics are obsolete. Make it semi. What are the soviet ones? http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/rus/rmb-93-e.html Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 As for loading and ejecting in the roughly same place, I guess I was taking the Halo shotgun too literally. It looks like it loads towards the front and ejects near the back. That seems unnessarily complicated to me. I suppose if it fed from the top and ejected from the bottom it would be OK. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 As for loading and ejecting in the roughly same place, I guess I was taking the Halo shotgun too literally. It looks like it loads towards the front and ejects near the back. That seems unnessarily complicated to me. I suppose if it fed from the top and ejected from the bottom it would be OK. If you were to make it somewhat bullpup (Think P90 level of bullpup) Then you could load somewhere just behind the middle of the gun(making for good ergonomics) and the action would be behind it and spit the empties out the bottom of the stock. I still would rather have a Siaga12 in a aku94 style bullpup configuration. (of course i'd want one better built than the 94s were) Link to post Share on other sites
shmook Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Shotguns are what they are. Not in favour so no big company will be developing them anytime soon. They are cool as *fruitcage* though Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I've got a semi auto P90 shotgun, stuck bouncing around my head now. That would be too cool. Link to post Share on other sites
scorch Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I've got a semi auto P90 shotgun, stuck bouncing around my head now. That would be too cool. I had this exact thing as an idea some time ago. The mags would be huge. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 There is one. But if got canned last year... Looked amazing. Pump because there are many rounds that will not cycle in a semi. One for example are bean bag rounds, hence the Benelli M3 S90 and Spas12. Not to mention cleaning and maintanence are a million times less/easier. Link to post Share on other sites
scorch Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 There is one. But if got canned last year... Looked amazing. Well bugger me. It's not exactly how I pictured it but god damn. Monolith arms p12 in case anyone is wondering. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/06/25/monolith-arms-p-12-p-90-like-shotgun/ Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Holy *suitcase*. I just found that a few mins ago. Ugly sucker but would have been cool. Link to post Share on other sites
amateurstuntman Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 If you were to make it somewhat bullpup (Think P90 level of bullpup) Then you could load somewhere just behind the middle of the gun(making for good ergonomics) and the action would be behind it and spit the empties out the bottom of the stock. I still would rather have a Siaga12 in a aku94 style bullpup configuration. (of course i'd want one better built than the 94s were) Kushnapup Link to post Share on other sites
jal3 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites
Danke Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 Mag on top? Works great in space when there's no dirt for gravity to deposit into the great gawping loading chamber. Here on earth gravity works with you to help debris drop free. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 How interesting and unusual. Looks like you fire with the pump in the rear position... Link to post Share on other sites
scorch Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I really like the plum finish on that. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 If i had the time, skills and money id try and make one. You can get box magazines for tube fed shotguns. Sits under the tube infront of the loading gate. Link to post Share on other sites
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