Longhairedhippy Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 the problem is, that the movies never show the spec ops guy getting shot in the face because he stood up. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Great first post Guinnessman. Welcome to the forums. As you say, I don't think anybody's ever gonna berate you for the odd defensive blast. The idea of a blind-fire rule is so that you've got something tangible to complain about if somebody does start abusing it. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy_Harry Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 and guinnessman, you're right- I'd rather get shot to pieces being manly than cowering round a corner being girly any day of the week Link to post Share on other sites
heavyweps Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I agree. its easy to look down on others when you aren't staring down a muzzle as it appears ' round a corner, its owner mysteriously absent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> amen, sir. not a pleasant instance. most unfortunate bf incident i`ve ever seen was a poor young lad only wearing goggles who had manfully charged my position on a t-junction and been double tapped by myself, when a team mate poked his sidearm into the corridor and let rip just as this lad opened his mouth to yell hit and caught two rounds on his tongue and cheek from about 4 feet. Anybody can mention taking the pain all they want but think about that incident before spraying somewhere you can`t see . . . Link to post Share on other sites
FeeFyeFoeFum Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 People who fire a couple of shots round a corner to make the enemy keep their heads down whilst you either run away or tactically advance are not the problem. Suppression fire. Same as if your being chased by someone(s) and you have reached a point where a couple of shots fired behind ya will slow them down and give you a chance to re-group. Tactically correct. The roblem is those people who fire 50-100 bbs a time round corners, without having a clue where they are going. Have these people considered that the noise of their AEG is probably enough to slow people down on its own. Everyones seen it (and probably done it), you hear an AEG fire somewhere near ya and you duck, get back into cover, leap into the nearest ditch - whatever. Because no-one knows if that AEG is firing at you, so no chances taken. A possible solution in some cases rather than the hose round corners Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFox Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Some good points made since I last posted. In sum, Hissing Sid nailed it on the dot. This topic isn't as much based on the blind fire rule, it's more based on abusing the blind fire rule. As I stated before, I do not consider it blind firing if you know someone is in the next room or hallway. By exact definition it could be considered blind firing because you cannot see your foe, but for me, the airsoft definition is more reflected on firing upon an unknown area. As perhaps my last statement on this topic, I have come to this. There are two types of airsofters concerning the blind fire rule. There are those who use their senses to locate an unseen enemy as best as possible, and then use a spurt of blind fire or other methods of taking them out. And then there's people who fear getting shot and go about blind firing very irresponsibly and pansy like. One will eventually end up with a crooked nose, the other will most likely not. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Can I suggest that all the "I blind fire 'cos I'm more manly and can take the pain, you're all wusses" brigade should show how much pain they can take and play naked? THEN see how much they appreciate 50 rounds point blank. Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFox Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Can I suggest that all the "I blind fire 'cos I'm more manly and can take the pain, you're all wusses" brigade should show how much pain they can take and play naked? THEN see how much they appreciate 50 rounds point blank. But I play naked anyway . .... what? Link to post Share on other sites
heavyweps Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 But I play naked anyway ..... what? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and i always thought you were carrying a super blackhawk in your trousers Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 No, he's just pleased to see you. Anyway, back on topic, I think we've all learnt something today: blind firing bad. Ok? Link to post Share on other sites
Un_FriendlyFire Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Just for peoples opinions something that i have done a couple of times and seen done a couple of times is to come into a room fully but with the intention of shooting the moment you come round the corner. Would you call this blank firing or would you say thats ok. Link to post Share on other sites
Marlowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Is that an m3 shorty in your trouser leg, or are you just pleased to see me? The last time I checked, we were just discussing the blind fire rule in general, rather than individuals who abuse it... . I'm going to have to be all puritanical and boring here and say that yes I have moments where I'm tempted to do it, but I won't do it for the reasons I've cited about 50,000 times over by now. Yes, I suppose that you can say that in reality, as with most issues, compromises must necessarily be struck. However, I feel that it's going to be one hell of a challenge to first of all say 'blind-firing is okay so long as....' and then actually attempt to regulate that ruling, once individuals 'abuse' it. Sorry to get all sensible, but in my experience as a teacher, there'll always be individuals who go beyond what is acceptable. By making what is acceptable such a grey area, you simply encourage more and more individuals to do what would be considered 'unacceptable'. And yes, before anyone says anything, I teach at a FE college level, so it's not just those pesky teenage kids with all those pesky notions like individuality which tend to abuse the system... Anyway, sorry to go all puritanical again. Just my tuppence. Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFox Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Just for peoples opinions something that i have done a couple of times and seen done a couple of times is to come into a room fully but with the intention of shooting the moment you come round the corner. Would you call this blank firing or would you say thats ok. Well, that would be OK. Don't know what blank firing is with airsoft though . However, coming into a room fully also puts you at risk of getting torn up. For all you know, they could know you are out there and all have their sites/RDS aimed at the doors entry point. Stick even your finger out and you're going to get shot at. I never did say it wouldn't be a hassle to get people to follow the rules concerning "blind fire is ok if ...". I'm simply stating that, like you said, it is a grey area and I think certain exceptions are acceptable. To those who abuse it, well, do the same as what people normally do: grab em' by the ear and drag em' to the marshall. And no, Marlowwe, we couldn't tell you teach . Tup ... Tupe ... Tuppence! Got it! What's it mean? Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I think we all tend to enter rooms with our guns ready to fire. (When skirmishing, obivously, not when you enter the local corner shop.) The point is that you enter the room THEN fire, rather than empty a hi-cap round the corner, then stick yer bonce round to see who you hit. Link to post Share on other sites
Kosac Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Yah it realy ###### me off that especially when the guy that does it is on your team and gets you with ff Link to post Share on other sites
heavyweps Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 hmmmm, a very good point raised by marlowe there, but taking his point a bit further. If the blind fire rule is a RULE then it`s not open to any form of interpretation, theres no point in saying "it`s not cricket, unless i`m in x & x situation" remove the rule completely or enforce it strictly, those are the only 2 options here. Start deviating from that and it takes people into interpreting the rule any way they want and can think of to bend it. look at what you shoot or don`t shoot, simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites
Un_FriendlyFire Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 My point was i come round the corner and just shoot pretty much as soon as i go round the corner not just have the weapon ready, anyway your right BLIND firing just wont let me edit at the moment Link to post Share on other sites
Marlowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Lol sorry Shadowfox. I wasn't picking your comment out or anything. Tuppence is er well in my definition...two pence. Just my take on your 'two cents'. I'm not sure if it had a different monetary value though, as I'm an eighties child, and so too old to remember ye olden times of shillings and ha'pennys (that's another one for you to think about... ). I agree with heavywep's comment entirely. I'm just too big of a wuss to start making claims like that in a thread where everyone's going 'well it's okay IF....'. Although it's reasonable to expect a decent evel of protection being used by other players (I'm unlikely to ever use my bolle glasses over my JT paintball mask in cqb, unless I get a nice thick shemgah...), there's always that off chance. What happens if for example someone falls over and their glasses fall off / out of place, and one of you then decides to blind fire around after hearing 'enemy movement'? Yes, it's not likely, but the chance exists so long as people do not check their fire. Which to me is the crux of this argument. Sure, you can argue 'well I checked just before firing', but a lot could have happened in that second before your head popping back and your gun popping around the corner. Is it really worth jeapordising the safety of another just because you're frightened of looking around the obstacle? Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFox Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Heh, I know you're not picking on me. It's just early over here, well, was early. Needless to say that glasses situation can relate to both blind firing and firing at the enemy in general. For those who just around the corner and start firing after hearing enemy movement, would it not be the same? I mean, the time span between the guys glasses falling off and then him putting them back on is not going to matter much if you decide to either stick your gun around the corner or jump out into the open. You're going to fire without really aiming either way... As for the comment of their only being 2 options concerning this matter, I disagree. It was stated that firing bursts around a corner in order to "cover" your ally was in fact OK, and is that not still blind firing? As many have said, the blind firing matter is a grey area, not a simple "black and white" matter. Link to post Share on other sites
Un_FriendlyFire Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I agree totally marlowe. Also Moving around into a room or corner with that aggression youd be amazed at how much time you can get to get the person behind the table. OK if your up against a ready and waiting player you could end up in a lethal situation but in the end its worth it over being responsible for someones eyesight Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFox Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 I agree totally marlowe. Also Moving around into a room or corner with that aggression youd be amazed at how much time you can get to get the person behind the table. OK if your up against a ready and waiting player you could end up in a lethal situation but in the end its worth it over being responsible for someones eyesight If you're up against a ready and waiting players, meaning your chances of staying in the game are reduced to almost nothing, and the purpose of the game is for you to stay in the game and to get the other team out .... why bother? I'm not saying unload an entire 600 rd. AK clip () into the area, but why is it so unacceptable to stick your gun around the corner and fire a spurt to perhaps, I dunno, throw off his aim -- increasing your chances of coming at him without getting shot. We've already established that unloading entire clips into a room is a definate "no-no", but I still say that if you know someone is there, spurts are acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites
Marlowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hehe, and I still say if you start saying 'it's okay to fire without looking so long as you don't fire in more than xx round bursts', it'll be a challenge to then say to xx player spraying around a corner that he's breaking site rules. In my book a rule's only a rule so long as it is both clear and enforced - I'm not saying kick out players who do it at all, as it's and understandable heat of the moment reaction. But it's just going to be very hard in practice to say 'you can put a little fire round corners, but not a lot', and not expect a minority people to abuse that rule. When I say a minority I say so because I know most people wouldn't do that. However, there's always that minority that'll push things a little too far, to the misfortune of everyone else... Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 If the blind fire rule is a RULE then it`s not open to any form of interpretation, theres no point in saying "it`s not cricket, unless i`m in x & x situation" remove the rule completely or enforce it strictly, those are the only 2 options here. Start deviating from that and it takes people into interpreting the rule any way they want and can think of to bend it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Rubbish. The motorway speed limit in the UK is 70mph. Do all cars travel at 70mph? Of course not. The police who patrol the motorways understand that if everybody was to travel at 65mph then the traffic jams would be huge. They use discretion and good judgement to ensure that traffic moves swiftly without danger. As a rule, in good conditions, a policeman won't look twice if you're doing up to 85mph. The same thing applies to any blind-fire rule. If a site impliments a blind-fire rule it's up to the discretion of the marshals to enforce it as they see fit. Nobody is going to chastise a player for blatting off a few shots to cover their retreat or cover the movement of a team-mate. On the other hand, if 3 or 4 people are in a room, for example, and are simply taking it in turns to empty a box-mag through the door, constantly, then a marshal can use the blind-fire rule to force them out of cover. To be honest, I think both of my local sites invoke a BF rule and I don't think, in three years, I've heard anything like as much about it as I've read here. Marshals aren't nazi's who enforce the rules like Judge Dredd and players aren't whining dweebs who bleat about every time they are shot by somebody not aiming right at them. You need to apply a bit of common sense when applying rules in airsoft, as with most things in life. Simply saying "It's got to be all or nothing." is, honestly, nonsense. Incidentally, if you want other examples of discretion, you don't have to even look outside these forums. Talk of real steel is supposed to be banned. Also discussion of power greater than 1J is banned. The mod's, however use (that wonderful word again) discretion to allow some discussion of these topics so long as there is nothing overt or irresponsible. It's quite possible to have a rule and use it as a guideline. Link to post Share on other sites
Marlowe Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 As I stated several posts ago, I expected some individual at some point to point out that in real life, compromises must be struck. For a minute there, I thought I was going to be proven wrong... In terms of practicality, I think Sid's post neatly ties up the real life application of the rule. Now that we've got that firmly established, what about returning to discussing on an ideological level the positive or negative impact of a blind-fire rule? That or someone could put the thread out of its misery... Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 As I stated several posts ago, I expected some individual at some point to point out that in real life, compromises must be struck. For a minute there, I thought I was going to be proven wrong... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *shrugs* It's sometimes neccesary to state the obvious. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.