California SB199 Passed into law

[Liquid_snake]

The American need to accuse bad things as both "Liberal" and "Communist" is something which has always done my tits in, do your research and stop accusing everything that isnt medieval as supposedly "wrong".

 

As has been said already this simply comes down to legislating the wrong area of gun control. It would appear that ground level sources like police who will know where problems with guns originate havnt been consulted, they may well say a big part of that problem will be the importation from out of state. If theres a problem caused by out of state imports then you either a) lessen your legislation to make the guns that will be bought easier to track or keep count of or b ) lock down state borders and put your money there, not demonise toy replicas.

 

As it stands I wouldnt be risking my neck with a toy gun to rob something in the land of 2nd amendment, the "replica scene" from snatch springs to mind.

 

 

As for the VCRA there is a happy by-product in that everyone essentially pays £120 for their UKARA no. over the course of three plays, providing extra funds and potential for sights to invest in their experience and facilities. Its also from what Ive seen thinned the ranks of fools as they cant be bothered with 2-tones and as a direct result appear less often at sights due to cost - giving us all a reduced *albartroth* factor in the taking hits department

[Liquid_snake]

Apologies for double posting, but on the subject of separate airsoft laws a "federal" UK would actually be in line with current firearms law. As it stands Northern Ireland is arguably the most lax of all the UK member states for the simple reasons of permitted handgun ownership (including burst fire) and higher permitted gun count within only 1.5 million citizens.

 

You can see a clear FPS difference between mainland and NI sites, I have yet to see a mainland site restrict to 328fps and an NI site to allow over that

 

I would also like to apologise for the necroposts, tapatalk claimed this thread had begun recently and upon further inspection is much mistaken.

[PureSilver]

Taking the necropost revival in hand...
 

Do you not like guns Puresilver?

 
Sorry - didn't see this the first time around. I like guns a lot - why else would I be spending ludicrous amounts of my finite time and money buying, discussing and playing with facsimiles of them? What I dislike - intensely - is the boneheaded refusal of Americans, and it is almost exclusively Americans in this context, to recognise that insufficiently supervised access to guns can have a severely detrimental effect on a society, and to recognise that this stubborn, paranoid, unreasonable and insupportable refusal to compromise has directly and indirectly enabled the violent death of literally hundreds of thousands of people. That last part goes for the hard-core anti-gun campaigners too, by the way.
 
I like guns the same way I like cars - as technically impressive exercises in engineering, as industrial art, as a machine in which one can demonstrate skill, and as extremely dangerous tools to be respected and operated by trained people who understand the weighty responsibility they bear. I dislike people who not only conceive of guns as an seemingly inalienable human right and write off the violent deaths of thousands of other people as inevitable collateral damage of the maintenance of that right, but also zealously frustrate any attempt of reform of the legislation that upholds that right - artificially prolonging the misery of the 30,000 Americans who are killed with a firearm annually, and countless remoter victims. When they claim the moral high ground at the same time ("I'm protecting your right to protect yourself by campaigning against mandatory background checks") it's especially infuriating.

 

It is possible to like guns and think that there are places where they don't belong. I like civilian ownership of guns for hunting, for sport, for defense against wild animals, and for target practice. I dislike civilian ownership of guns for self-defence against other civilians, the ruinous practice of which caused and sustains a destructive arms race between citizens, criminals and law enforcement that means that London, a city of 11,000,000 people and one of the world's financial centers, is policed largely by people that look like this, and Ferguson, a town of 21,000 people of no particular consequence, is policed at present by people that look like this. It is possible to like guns, and be cognizant of the fact that only in a society deeply damaged by guns would so many consider it proactive self-defence to carry a concealed firearm at all times in case they need to shoot another human being.

 

The relevant part of the VCRA is as far as I'm concerned, an idiotic law. [...] An idiotic law, in my mind is one that restricts individual liberty without benefiting wider society [...] the relevant bits of the VCRA have done next to nothing in terms of public safety and has made it harder - not impossible (although it came damn close) for people like me to pursue my hobby/rampant consumerism.

 
I think it's hard to tell whether or not the VCRA's having an impact without more closely defined statistics; at present, from what I can recall, crimes committed with RIFs are statistically counted as 'firearms offences' (of which there are a surprisingly large number in the UK, thought to be mostly committed with 'non-gun' guns like air weapons and RIFs) and therefore it's hard to separate out whether RIFs as a sub-group are affected. Our hobby involves realistic replicas of extremely tightly-controlled and fear-inducing (to the majority of the general public) weapons. The potential for abuse of a RIF is far greater than the potential for abuse of other hobbies' gear - it would be hard to rob a shop by menacing the cashier with a stamp collection, for example - and on that basis alone it's immature to suggest that legislation restricting access to RIFs does not benefit wider society. I think a certain amount of regulation to prevent abuse is inevitable - even if in practice such abuse is very rare.

[hotelkilo]

my main criticism with the vcra was that it cost loads of money, caused a lot of drama, burgled a *suitcase* load of peoples time on both sides of the arguement, caused some people to go out of business, was logically flawed from the outset and completely failed to stop any potential criminal from getting hold of a realistic looking 'gun'

 

currently if i wanted to rob a bank with a lookalikey firearm i have several options before i even have to start painting IF's a 'controlled' colour.

 

it also made it illegal for children to spend their own money on toy guns from toys'r'us ffs, sorry sonny, that bright orange and green toy pistol is now an IMITATION FIREARM and u need to be over 18 to buy it.. seriously if the side effect of a law is stopping children from buying toys, then that law may well be fkn nuts

 

i suspect the vcra was brought about to appease the anti gun nutjobs prevalent at the time rather than to actually stop morons waving fake guns around in public, mostly from my quick appraisal of the current situation where its still possible for morons to waive fake guns around in public if they wish.

 

lets not forget the famous quote "anyone who wishes to retain their respect for laws and sausages should watch neither being made"

[hotelkilo]

and my opinion of firearms ownership/usage in the USA. well there are other countries in the world that have similarly high levels of private firearms ownership but do not have the same high murder rates as the usa, so i would suggest that the issue in the usa is society at large and how people treat each other rather that specific laws regarding ownership of inanimate objects, or the availability of firearms.

 

the solution imo better education and opportunities for poorer people and a better integration of society, unfortunately this *suitcase* takes generations and so is politically useless. instead they bring about *suitcasey* ill thought out laws as a politically expedient quick fix to gain popularity, get voted back in, and so '*suitcase* gets done' but nothing actually changes.

 

another well known quote 'if voting changed anything it would be illegal'

[Skarclaw]

 

 

I think it's hard to tell whether or not the VCRA's having an impact without more closely defined statistics; at present, from what I can recall, crimes committed with RIFs are statistically counted as 'firearms offences' (of which there are a surprisingly large number in the UK, thought to be mostly committed with 'non-gun' guns like air weapons and RIFs) and therefore it's hard to separate out whether RIFs as a sub-group are affected. Our hobby involves realistic replicas of extremely tightly-controlled and fear-inducing (to the majority of the general public) weapons. The potential for abuse of a RIF is far greater than the potential for abuse of other hobbies' gear - it would be hard to rob a shop by menacing the cashier with a stamp collection, for example - and on that basis alone it's immature to suggest that legislation restricting access to RIFs does not benefit wider society. I think a certain amount of regulation to prevent abuse is inevitable - even if in practice such abuse is very rare.

 

I disagree. The legal term of a "replica imitation firearm" means nothing to the layman, really. I was in Whitechapel the other day - plenty of "IFs" for sale which you could still stick a shop up with. "council enforcement officers" didn't bat an eye, seemingly.

 

I'm not sure how long you've been airsofting and I apologise if you've been in the situation - I think some people forget that airsofters got the exemption by the skin of our teeth. I remember eyeing up an Asahi sterling thinking "this is my last chance to get one" !

 

On the subject of the use of RIFs and so on - I've seen a few references to "replica guns" handed in at recent police gun amnesties. Be interesting to see how much they picked up.

[TheFull9]

-

 

I know what your opinion is, don't worry.  That really wasn't my point but I didn't make my sarcasm clear, so my apologies there, internet comms troubles.  Very old thread and I've really no interest in flaring up a debate on that exact subject now, really don't think there's any point.

[Skarclaw]

and my opinion of firearms ownership/usage in the USA. well there are other countries in the world that have similarly high levels of private firearms ownership but do not have the same high murder rates as the usa, so i would suggest that the issue in the usa is society at large and how people treat each other rather that specific laws regarding ownership of inanimate objects, or the availability of firearms.

 

 

Yeah this is probably correct. I'm aware that canada/finland have similar gun ownership rates but there is something in the American psyche that goes totally nuts. I was browsing AR15 (imagine a support group for obese, racist *fruitcage*wits) - these dickheads carry AR15s in their car, casually. Madness.

 

Also apparently to have a "CCW" you also have to wear an overly tight polo shirt, all the time.

[Cannonfodder80]

On the subject of the use of RIFs and so on - I've seen a few references to "replica guns" handed in at recent police gun amnesties. Be interesting to see how much they picked up.

Good question. When the last amnesty by Thames Valley Police ended recently BBC news was doing its usual "Oh dear god look at all these nasty weapons" story and I noticed quite a few luminous coloured ifs

[hitmanNo2]

Same with the recent 'bedroom bomber' army guy.  They found a 'cache of weapons' including firearms in his room.  Read, Ruskie bayonet, hatchet, air pistol, and what looked like a cap gun.