BB comparison

[sirrith]

DISCLAMER:

These results may not apply to all rifles. Sniper rifles are picky about what they eat.

Poster is not to be held responsible for any problems that may arise due to this thread.

 

EDIT: test done for .36 washed and 3 sgms that I found lying around

 

Ok, well, as mentioned in the VSR thread, I said I was going to run some tests comparing different types of bb in my VSR10 G-spec.

These tests were conducted indoors at 7m (house too small for anything more) prone with bipod. Cat was safely locked inside kitchen for the duration of the tests. (lol)

I was originally planning to use .29g SGM as well, but I ran out unfortunately, so the tests were carried out on Marushin .3g and Marui .3g bbs.

 

Each shot was fired from the same position, 10 shots per brand of bb, hopup turned OFF.

This is the setup of my rifle:

PSS10 teflon coated cylinder

PSS10 damper cylinder head

PSS10 piston

SP130 spring

PSS10 430mm 6.03mm tightbore

PSS10 bearing spring guide

PSS10 trigger and piston sears

PSS10 spring guide stopper

Firefly SOFT v-hop bucking w/ 1 layer of teflon tape wrap

 

The results are as follows:

Marui .3g

Vertical grouping:

33.5mm

horizontal grouping:

25.0mm

 

Marushin .3g

Vertical grouping:

35.0mm

Horizontal grouping:

35.5mm

 

STRAIGHT .36g washed

Vertical grouping:

35.0mm

Horizontal grouping:

35.0mm [note, there is an error in measurement on the photo, the actual size is 35x35mm]

 

Maruzen SGM .29g

Vertical grouping:

29.0mm

Horizontal grouping:

12.0mm

 

Conclusion:

Though I was impressed with the non-fliers in the Marushin pack, they seem to be quite inconsistent in terms of quality. The ones which are well made are spot on with a horizontal grouping of less than 15mm, and vertical grouping of less than 20mm, but there are 4 'fliers' out of 10, which is a double the amount in the Marui sample, which, though with less attractive results in the non-flier group, were more consistant overall, with the 2 'fliers' being quite close to the same group, and the main body being 20x22mm. The STRAIGHT washed were, as expected, the worst, due to washing, which leads to inconsistant size, but all the same performed quite well with a main body grouping of ~35x20mm and only 2 'fliers'. The SMGs were quite disappointing in performance although they are an incomplete test, as only 3 were fired. The "main body" which consists of 2bbs is amazing, at 10x8mm however, with one 'flier' in 3 bbs, it makes me wonder about their consistancy, though we will have to wait before being able to make a judgement on the overall quality of these bbs.

 

So, if you're willing to go through the bag of Marushin .3gs and test them individually for quality, they would be your best bet. However, if you arent that dedicated to sniping, or as addicted to the perfect shot(s) Marui would be the better choice as far as these two brands are concerned.

 

[magictomcat]

dont wash the BB,because if you dont wash them perfectly they wont be exatly the same,or even better,do the same test with washed and non washed straight BB

very good test,ill do the same with the straight 0.36 white and the graphite 0.43

[sirrith]

I washed the bbs because graphite leaves a nasty deposit on the hop rubber and inner barrel, and I didnt really like that. Washing the bb gives it a better grip on the hop, but as you say, decreases consistency, which is why I do not recommend graphite coated bbs to snipers, unless they shoot without hopup.

 

A test like that would be greatly appreciated, thanks

Could you perhaps do it as 7m also, so I could compare my .36 washed results with your .36 non-coated?

[magictomcat]

ok,but if we really want to be accurate we have to use the same rifle at the same fps,and i dont have a chrony...

should i test a high (700fps or more) or medium fps (400-500 fps?)

[sirrith]

medium please my rifle shoots at ~450fps with .2g

[Wedgie]

There are a few things I wanted to say.

1. Were you aiming at the red dots on the paper? Otherwise it just looks like you were just shooting at nothing.

2. I think 7 meters is a bit too close. I mean I know you did these without hop turned on, but I think a longer distance would have provided some nicer results.

3. I don't think you should rule out the SGM's too quickly. You only did 3 shots with them, so I think that you need to give them a thorough testing before coming to a full conclusion on them. In my experience they have been amazing.

 

Overall though this is some really nice work. Deserving of a +1 I think.

[scithe]

3. I don't think you should rule out the SGM's too quickly. You only did 3 shots with them, so I think that you need to give them a thorough testing before coming to a full conclusion on them. In my experience they have been amazing.

 

Overall though this is some really nice work. Deserving of a +1 I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

he said that he had no more sgm's to test as those three are the only ones he had.

[sirrith]

Yes, I forgot to mention, the red dots on the paper were the points I was aiming at. (There was another red dot for the SGMs, they arent off to the side, haha, it was just higher up and didnt make it into the pic)

 

I agree that 7m is a bit too close, but I cannot carry out any fair tests at longer ranges, since my house is too small, and outdoors would have things such as wind interfering, and I wouldnt be able to go prone, so the tests would have to be standing (I dont have a yard or garden, I live in a village, and I dont fancy lying down on the concrete.)

 

we will have to wait before being able to make a judgement on the overall quality of these bbs.

[magictomcat]

where you aim doesnt matter,its the grouping that matters

[The Bushman]

He is showing that he was aiming at the same place every shot.

 

I measured out a 7m range in the backyard (its sheltered) and fired off a bench. I was kneeling and the rifle was supported. So far I have only had chance to fire 10 X 0.28g G+P shots from my factory standard tanaka m40a1, on green gas. It's 14C and I was firing in the shade. My rate of fire was not particularly slow either.

 

 

The coin is a one pence (1p).

 

My HOP was turned on and the gun was firing around full power (will chronograph tommorrow. I know this doesn't compare exactly with the rifle used above but I guess we should just show the pellets in a setup we would use. Every rifle is different and just because my m40a1 loves the G+P 0.28g doesn't mean all do.

 

I will do more soon.

 

Good Hunting

[magictomcat]

ok here we are with the duel

 

straight 0.36g white vs straigh 0.43 graphite with teflon

rifle:

-tanaka M700 with power pack and a sanded and polished barrel

-custom "W" shaped cut G&Ghopup turned off

-CO2 powered with a tuned carbon power booster

-gamo 4-12*44 mil dot scope with homemade sun-shade

 

test conditions:

-indoor

-target a 7meters

-6 shots for each type of BB,1 shot for each BB was removed (didnt aimed correctly)

-rifle suported, resting on cork at the back,my hand at the front

-aiming at the blue dot (the center of the 0 of 10)

 

 

 

 

STRAIGHT 0.36g WHITE:

 

 

 

there arent any wild shots (exepted the one i missed,doesnt count here)

 

23*23mm is very good,i personnely like those BBs,but with the M700,they get hit and scraped when reloading as the mag spring is very powerfull,so on 12bb that the mag have,the first 4 are damaged.Still,they work really well with hopup.

 

STRAIGHT 0.43g GRAPHITE:

 

 

 

 

there is 1 wild shot, but it might be my aiming (exepted the one i missed,doesnt count here)

 

12*28mm is good,espeacially as its possible that my aim was the reason for the BB at 28mm.otherwise,1BB damaged for 5bb isn't too bad.

 

Those bbs dont get damaged in the mag,however they dont stick really well to the hopup (not seen here as its off)

 

 

The results are as follows:

Straight .36g

Vertical grouping:

23.0mm

horizontal grouping:

23.0mm

 

Straight .43g

Vertical grouping:

28.0mm

Horizontal grouping:

12.0mm

 

Finally,I like the 0.43g as they are really accurate and heavy,however,you need a lot of power (500fps at least) and a very good hopup if you really want to be able to use them,and some people dont play with that much fps,so I would stick with the 0.36g.its also necessary to clean the barrel and the hop often as they leave carbon on the hop and in the barrel.

But those BBs are very fragile,and I think you can find better BBs,but havent tried anything else.

 

ps:we can see straight .36g white BBs are MUCH better than straight washed graphite .36g

 

Can you do a test for non-washed graphite .36g straight?

[fuze]

Interesting test magictomcat! Those are the exact same bb types i have been using in my tanaka M40a1.

 

(A bit off topic but did you just drill and tap the co2 connection on the small mag. The reason i am wondering is because I have been thinking about doing that myself, but I didn't want to risk ruining the mag in case it wouldn't work.)

[magictomcat]

drill a 4mm hole,and juste screw slowly the connector (put some oil),it will jus tape the hole nad il will fit perfectly

i'm preparing a review,but if your impatient,pm me

[The Bushman]

OK, here's all the decent heavy ammo types I had in my box of pellets.

 

 

G+P 0.28g

 

GM 0.29g (note : these are NOT SGM and are 0.02+/- tolerence)

 

ELITE AIRSOFT 0.30g

 

SIIS 0.30g

 

MARUZEN 0.30g

 

HFC 0.30g

 

DIGICON STRAIGHT 0.36g (whites)

 

All out of the same TANAKA m40a1 with the same amount of HOP.

 

PELLET ............ Vertical ........ Horizontal

0.28g G+P .......... 3.1 ................ 2.8

0.29g GM ........... 3.0 ................ 3.5

0.30g EliteAirsoft ... 4.0................ 3.1

0.30g SIIS ............ 4.0 ............... 3.1

0.30g MARUZEN ..... 2.1 ............... 3.7

0.30g HFC ............. 4.0 ............... 3.0

0.36g Straight ........ 3.1 .............. 3.0

 

This test was with 10 pellets and was only from kneeling (rifle rested) so must admit user error could well be a factor. I hope to do it again but from prone with bipod.

 

shows that the G+P 0.28g I favour proved to be the best choice for the rifle. Although must admit it is way over 500fps at the present.

 

Good Hunting

[Wedgie]

he said that he had no more sgm's to test as those three are the only ones he had.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I know, sorry. That was meant to read "I know you only did 3 shots with them."

[you can`t shoot me]

Are those results the first 10 shots or was the one with the best grouping used. What i am meaning is that i have found that alot of varietys of bb`s vary alot so sometimes you may get a grouping of 2.5 cm and other times alot worst. I think to really test the difference between the various bb`s you have to be able to consistanly gets similar results.

 

Also The Bushman i know this is probably going to sound bad but is there a reason why in all the pictures the 1p has the face side up?

[Wedgie]

Also The Bushman i know this is probably going to sound bad but is there a reason why in all the pictures the 1p has the face side up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And why there were 2 different pennies used?

[The Bushman]

YCSM: I agree with what you say. ie BB's and performance can vary wildly and it is hard to represent that in any test.

 

Lets face it, the test shows alot about the rifle too. Not just the pellets and is simply the first 10 shots of each pellet type. Not an average or best group. But then again, that doesn't apply in the field either, as you only get those particular shots.... not an average.

 

So imagine i had taken those particular 10 shots in the field, in a game; I would have had more success with the 0.28g than the 0.29g

 

Rifles performance can vary from day to day (as someone remarked recently on here) and the pellets that go best can change too. HOP UP is a science of its own and the spin is a major factor in the accuracy of the pellets. Therefore you cannot just say a 30mm group at 7m range, becomes a 300mm group at 70m range.

 

I suggest my test is more relevant to tanaka m40 users and shows the rifle has pretty impressive performance out of the box.

 

I have not got rid of a flier from each target, but if i had done so, it would have vastly reduced the grouping sizes as you can see. Also I have measured all marks on the paper, not just the holes and maybe why my groups are bigger than magictomcats and more like sirriths original test.

 

No offence but a 12mm width of group, is very hard to achieve when the pellets are 6mm wide to start with. So the way we all measure needs to be the same i guess if you want to make any comparisons at all. I would suggest if you add 6mm to your measurements they would come in line with the other methods used here. However the fliers are still not included in that result and you fired less shots, so not really able to compare them properly.

 

The penny was placed there for scale; as you can see some pictures are from closer than others. There were two used, as I got one out and misplaced it half way through the tests. So I got a different 1p out of my dusty wallet.

 

It is the right way up as I guess I am a stickler for detail.

 

Good Hunting

[sirrith]

very nice tests Bushman thanks for those!

looks like I'll have to try some G&P .28 in my vsr, haha

 

tomcat, I dont have any non-washed .36s unfortunately, and I dont plan on buying any, as the washed ones I have are from about a year ago, and I still have over half the pack left...

 

Those are very nice results by the way Bushman around what fps was your rifle?

[magictomcat]

I think if we really want to have accurate test he was to turn hop up off and do the test inside on a bench rest

 

thats probable whay my grouping is smaller, the hop was off

and i think i can improve the grouping if i find a was to clap the rifle

 

i think wa should have 2 type of test: 7m with no hop (inside)

30m with hop(outside)

[The Bushman]

10 consecutive chronograph readings, of the TW m40a1 with 0.20g excel:

 

554.3

538.5

539.5

543.9

542.5

537.2

553.4

538.6

554.2

538.6

 

These are from a magazine that has already had 10 shots put through from only 1 gas charge. I find the second load is more consistant. Compared to the KJW M700P that is super consistant. Firing was steady and not particularly slow.

 

Yes, the groups are great when you consider I am running a stock rifle, barrel and HOP.

 

I'm using HFC green gas.

 

Good Hunting

[sirrith]

ouch, thats almost 100fps faster than my rifle, hahaha

 

I'll do some tests with hop turned on tomorrow or the day after to see how the results compare

 

however, they will also be indoors at 7m.

 

Bushman, if you plan on doing some more testing, could you do us a big favour and try with the hop off? (If you dont mind of course, I know its more annoying to set the hop on a tanaka compared to a vsr. Otherwise ill just test my rifle with the hop on to make it a fair test.)

[magictomcat]

and make sure the rifle is rested,because even if you aim really well,you can exactly aim at the same point

 

ps:how can we do review on this forum?

[fuze]

I agree with magictomcat. Wouldn't it be more interesting to know what kind of groups could be achieved at 30m+ with the hop up on. Maybe someone could test their rifle at 30m and 60m or even more and show their groups. I might even try it myself as fast as I have finished BGS rubber mod on my rifle. The hop up rubber came in the mail today from evike(only took 3 weeks from evike to sweden ).

[magictomcat]

is cut my orriginal tanaka hop rubber (the g&g is really crappy) into a V shape,its EXTRAORDINARY (i can lift 0.43 at vertical!) nad very consistent,do you still think I should buy the BSG kit?

pm me for pic