crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I object to you posting repetitive ###### on the rules grounds. Again: what point are you trying to make? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> EDIT: Apologies for making this thread sound like a match to start a flame war. It's supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek analysis of the airsoft community responding to clones. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Kraut: I don't see the "GLOBAL MODERATOR" tag under your name. crunkassortedstuff: Your point? Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Kraut: I don't see the "GLOBAL MODERATOR" tag under your name. crunkassortedstuff: Your point? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My point is to poke fun at the fact that some people reject what they know little of just because it is new or different. Some people will always hate clones and some people will be open-minded. That will always be the case- I will not try to change that. I'm just trying to take note of a trend I perceived in the community, is there anything wrong with that? Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Ah, you're trolling. Why didn't you say so? Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Well, Sledge has made 2 good points. 1 was on the moderator thing and the other was when he posted that new airsofters should NOT buy clones. Yes, when you are experienced enough to know how to iron out the problems that many LPHPs seem to have, or as base for projects. But a named brand will almost always have better QC, better backup when things do go wrong, and are just superior in build all round. I say Almost because theres always G&G to let the side down... Back to the DBoys example - mine had barrel, RIS AND body wobble all in one. The AIM/TOP M4s that were so lauded at the time had cracking barrels, useless hops and foresights that moved on their own. Etc. You buy an LPHP at your own risk, the risk that it may indeed be a load of pants. Should people not buy them...? I would say yes they should, but with caution. Not a single clone of mine (except the G5) has been anywhere close to the quality of a Marui/CA etc. Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Ah, you're trolling. Why didn't you say so? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't think I'm trolling, I think others are just over reacting. You did the right thing by providing counter-examples to my points, why did you have to bring personal attacks into the picture? Link to post Share on other sites
hhsohn Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Due to survival of the fittest, evolution suggests that only the best arguments survive and continue to be reproduced in threads. Oh wait.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can we get to the real issue: why did you start this thread? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would seem that he fancies himself as a philosopher. Little does he understand that evolution isn't an argument that can be proved, nor philosophically strong as he assumes. And then he attempts to apply argument to something that is largely economics subject... Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Well, Sledge has made 2 good points. 1 was on the moderator thing and the other was when he posted that new airsofters should NOT buy clones. Yes, when you are experienced enough to know how to iron out the problems that many LPHPs seem to have, or as base for projects. But a named brand will almost always have better QC, better backup when things do go wrong, and are just superior in build all round. I say Almost because theres always G&G to let the side down... Back to the DBoys example - mine had barrel, RIS AND body wobble all in one. The AIM/TOP M4s that were so lauded at the time had cracking barrels, useless hops and foresights that moved on their own. Etc. You buy an LPHP at your own risk, the risk that it may indeed be a load of pants. Should people not buy them...? I would say yes they should, but with caution. Not a single clone of mine (except the G5) has been anywhere close to the quality of a Marui/CA etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Touché, a well-informed post. However, the 4 friends I know who got a JG m4 have experience no problems after 20,000+ rounds (not saying they won't experience problems in the future, but these guns seemed to hold up quite well). Also, my friends probably wouldn't have gotten into airsoft if they had to dish out 300+ for a first gun. One of my friends is also considering buying another gun for his girlfriend, and a classic army for himself. This is how a debate should look, a point and a counter-point. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I don't think I'm trolling, I think others are just over reacting. You did the right thing by providing counter-examples to my points, why did you have to bring personal attacks into the picture? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We've already thrashed this issue out before. People have explained that they don't like/won't buy clones on moral grounds. You've said you don't believe them. Doesn't leave much room for a debate other than "yes I do" "no I don't" "yes I do" etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Victory Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 We each have our own opinions...nothing more. I personally don't have anything against clones...again, this is MY opinion. -Vic Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 It would seem that he fancies himself as a philosopher. Little does he understand that evolution isn't an argument that can be proved, nor philosophically strong as he assumes. And then he attempts to apply argument to something that is largely economics subject... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you fill an island with limited resources full of smart, strong people and weak, not-so-smart people (people like me), then the strong will survive and be able to reproduce. So simple. And evolution is not philosophy, it is science. Foucault, Derrida, Aristotle, and Kant were philosophers, Darwin was a scientist. EDIT: I just realized that I made a completely off-topic response, maybe because the post I replied to was a personal insult and had nothing to do with the thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Kraut: I don't see the "GLOBAL MODERATOR" tag under your name. crunkassortedstuff: Your point? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I apologize if I was out of line. I've been drinking and I get a little worked up over that issue. Don't drink and post. Link to post Share on other sites
Rapier Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 As are you sledge, just in a more agressive maner. I own TM and CA aegs, I also own a JG aeg and a CYMA AEP. Lately I've taken to using my JG more than my CA or TM because it worked just as well but was far less expensive to customise. Then again I am a tech and fully intended to use it till it fell apart and then rebuild it. After about 8k rounds its about there. But I'm not upset about it. It's actualy a mostly decient gearbox and only needs a few things to get it running really well. Some new bushing, Shims, tappet plate, air seal nozzles and steel spring guide and I'm back in buissiness (bushings and nozzle are the cerrent problem, but I am swapping out the other stuff because it WILL need it). And even with the new parts I still didn't spend as much as a TM and I'll have a superior gearbox. Oh, and I support clones because I AM sure they are made in sweatshops!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Delfi Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I blame capitalism for corrupting a communist system so badly D Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Touché, a well-informed post. However, the 4 friends I know who got a JG m4 have experience no problems after 20,000+ rounds (not saying they won't experience problems in the future, but these guns seemed to hold up quite well). Also, my friends probably wouldn't have gotten into airsoft if they had to dish out 300+ for a first gun. One of my friends is also considering buying another gun for his girlfriend, and a classic army for himself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On that note, both my DBoys had duff motors (one of them, in the SPR, wouldnt even turn the gearbox). And the plastic piston in the BIM4 broke the second I put an M120 spring in. Longevity may not be their strong point! Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I blame women. What? Women are things. Lee Majors said so. Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 On that note, both my DBoys had duff motors (one of them, in the SPR, wouldnt even turn the gearbox). And the plastic piston in the BIM4 broke the second I put an M120 spring in. Longevity may not be their strong point! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, Dboys are probably only good for their metal bodies. My friend is thinking about getting a Dboys metal body for his M4, and I'm sure many owners of TM guns will do the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I blame women. What? Women are things. Lee Majors said so. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I keep my wimmins in the kitchen. On an off-topic but funny note, I got in trouble in physics class when I said the tuning fork must be a woman's tuning fork because it said "Kitchin"(the brand) on it. Link to post Share on other sites
Victory Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Don't drink and post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The E-Police are reading...shhhh... Your blood alcohol level must be way above forum limits. Time for a downgrade, aye? -Vic P.S. I'll stop now. Link to post Share on other sites
Panzergraf Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I'd buy clone guns if I wanted to upgrade them anyway. If I'm going to change most of the parts, I might as well start with something that's cheap. The new SPR mod. 0 on airsoftnews.eu for example, If I wanted an SPR project gun, I would get that one and put a G&P body on it, systema magnum motor, and maybe a Pro-Win gearbox if I'd had the money. Much cheaper than getting a CA or something and getting SPR parts and upgraded internals for it. If a close friend of mine decided he wanted to start playing airsoft and asked me for advice on what gun he should buy as his first, I wouldn't tell him to get a clone. Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 The E-Police is reading...shhhh... Your blood alcohol level must be way above forum limits. Time for a downgrade, aye? -Vic <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Blood-alcohol level? More like alcohol-blood level. "Sir, we regret to inform you that we detected blood in your alcohol stream. You are under arrest." Link to post Share on other sites
Rapier Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Yeah, Dboys are probably only good for their metal bodies. My friend is thinking about getting a Dboys metal body for his M4, and I'm sure many owners of TM guns will do the same thing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not a good idea. The ones i have tried to install don't line up right. You can get a good one for only $50 more that will actualy work. Link to post Share on other sites
crunkathon2k Posted August 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Not a good idea. The ones i have tried to install don't line up right. You can get a good one for only $50 more that will actualy work. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmmm, didn't know that. Thanks for giving me the heads up. What brand of gearbox did you use? Certain gearboxes may be shaped differently, making installation harder. Also which parts didn't line up? Sometimes it's an easy fix. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 I'd buy clone guns if they were made by Oompa Lumpas. Or Chinese kids painted orange. Link to post Share on other sites
GuzziHero Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 As I said before...only way I stopped barrel wobble and body rock on my DBoys SPR was by putting a CA body on. Also, you may find some parts (bolt release, ejection port dust cover) may not be compatible. Several parts on the DBoys were too tight to fit the CA without modification, so if the reverse is true, TM/CA parts will be loose in the DBoys. And the paint practically escapes the moment you touch it. Back on topic, a comment on the sweatshop deal - Im sure most airsoft guns are made by low paid workers in huge factories. Just like those $90 jeans you see in designer shops are made in sweatshops in Saipan or China. Would you rather pay $20 for something that a 14yr old has been paid 5c to make...or would you rather pay $90 for something that a 14 yr old has been paid 5c to make? The only way to be sure is to make sure the manufacturers of EVERYTHING you buy is in an ethical worker scheme...I doubt any of us do that. Link to post Share on other sites
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