wally squad Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Used to have a precharged air rifle many moons ago and never remember that suffering from inconsistencies in power due to temp etc, so how come no airsoft manufacturer has produced one? Is it because the pressures are just too high? Just wondering... cheers d p.s. I couldn't find any googlin' Link to post Share on other sites
Catman Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 There are loads of HPA powered guns - look at the Escort range Link to post Share on other sites
Fin Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 There not exactly loads of models, just surviving classics (which owners dont usually skirmish with as there are hardly and mags or spare parts) and escorts really expensive conversions. However escort is releasing HPA gearboxes which is awesome for us that are looking for more realism in the game Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 There are loads of HPA powered guns - look at the Escort range Because a horrendously inaccurate blowback smg = a sniper rifle right? Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Not a rifle, but the APS-3 from Maruzen uses pre-charged compressed air to shoot the BB. It's the most consistent airsoft gun I've ever seen when it comes to velocity fluctuation. As others mentioned, there are some surviving classics but that's about it. The reason why the technology was not seriously developed is because the AEG gearbox provided ease of use and performance that was more appealing to the big market. There were other reasons as well but that's one key thing IMHO. For bolt action rifles, simply a spring action provides power up to the limits of most gaming sites, a consistent performance regardless of weather, and don't need to be charged with gas or equipped with otherwise complex pressure-bearing parts. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
AGuy Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 There not exactly loads of models, just surviving classics (which owners dont usually skirmish with as there are hardly and mags or spare parts) and escorts really expensive conversions. However escort is releasing HPA gearboxes which is awesome for us that are looking for more realism in the game I skirmish with my classics, sometimes for good reason as in this vid You can do conversions for snipers which have been posted on here numerous times Link to post Share on other sites
Fin Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Want! Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I'm thinking about a HPA or pre-charged conversion for a good while, but it's so hard to beat the simplicity, reliability, and accuracy of a spring sniper rifle. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I'm thinking about a HPA or pre-charged conversion for a good while, but it's so hard to beat the simplicity, reliability, and accuracy of a spring sniper rifle. The guns talked about earlier are single-stroke pneumatic (ssp) air guns. They have all the advantages of a spring gun, and are even more consistent, they use a gas piston instead of spring to fire the rifle, removing environmental effects from the equation. The downside is they need ABSURD strength over a very short distance to cock, so the rifles usually have funky cocking arms that have 20:1+ mechanical advantage against the piston, if you can deal with the weird cocking, they are very easy to cock, powerful, and accurate. Ive a system designed to use them in any spring cocking rifle, using green gas to cock the piston and then silently exhaust through the sides over 1-3 seconds or so. but other things have priority at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hmm... Sounds interesting. I wonder why no manufacturer transfered PCP systems to airsoft (in a downgraded form, of course). Link to post Share on other sites
greg Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Not a rifle, but the APS-3 from Maruzen uses pre-charged compressed air to shoot the BB. It's the most consistent airsoft gun I've ever seen when it comes to velocity fluctuation. As others mentioned, there are some surviving classics but that's about it. The reason why the technology was not seriously developed is because the AEG gearbox provided ease of use and performance that was more appealing to the big market. There were other reasons as well but that's one key thing IMHO. For bolt action rifles, simply a spring action provides power up to the limits of most gaming sites, a consistent performance regardless of weather, and don't need to be charged with gas or equipped with otherwise complex pressure-bearing parts. -Sale Exactly how consistent? I have 2 vsrs & they both chrono +/-1fps. Measured on a skan, day in, day out, month on month. If the aps-3 is really the most consistent you've ever seen, I must be sitting on a pair of golden bad boyz!! May also explain why they are so accurate when compared against others. Greg. Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I wonder why no manufacturer transfered PCP systems to airsoft (in a downgraded form, of course). There is no real functional difference between a NBB gas pistol and a PCP rifle, just the PCP rifles are scaled up and designed to fire much higher psi gas Realism is our real crux, airsoft guns could fire quite a bit better if we were more lenient towards our guns looking a bit "off", but that is a pretty taboo subject with paintball guns slowly moving towards realism as well. for constancy, look up SSP air pistols. Most of them fire at approximately airsoft FPS limits using smaller, lighter, ammo, and have groupings of something like ~1mm @10m IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites
conger Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 First up, I'm very pleased and happy with my spring VSR and the setup I have. One cannot deny that simple and reliable are two description that will stand. Yet, I find myself trawling the interweb for information on a solution which provides me with the accuracy and distance I enjoy presently, but without the significant spring pull. I'm getting lazy I know and should wash out my mouth with soapy water for even suggesting it, but I'm more and more interested in seeing what co2 or HPA might do for me in the field. Someone on here somewhere mentioned that they modded their gun [possible a VSR] with a HPA solution in the stock and I can't find who refered to it still !!!!! Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 My father hunts pests, with pre-charged air rifles (he has 2) and also owns about 6 spring rifles and a pneumatic (pump up) too. One of them has a cocking system that has certain advantages. On the front of the forearm, underneath the barrel is a largish button. You simply shoot with your index finger on the button/plunger and after the shot, you pull the button into the furniture, this cocks the hammer mechanism. Then, at the rear of the action, your thumb presses another button to load the next pellet from a removable magazine. This allows you to cock and load the carbine with minimal movement, compared to any other system (other than self loading of course). The rifle is a shortened carbine, with a silencer and good fitting walnut stock. In air rifle FT (field target) shooting events; spring rifles are in a seperate category to pre charged as they are simply not as accurate. Personally, I am not interested in what a rifle looks like compared to firearms; as long as it is comfortable/natural to shoot and has good performance. Yet, on the other hand I am happy enough with regular bolt action as it certainly makes the game harder compared to the system above. Making the game harder, by limiting your ROF and making you have to move to reload; are all things needed in the game to stop it getting too easy. You need that challenge, to keep you interested in the sport. You don't need the BEST rifle out there, to be a highly effective player and get great results. We all want more range and better accuracy, but compared to the days before HOP UP; we already have hugely improved technology. Maybe one day, a pre charged 6mm Airsoft rifle may be put into production, or a conversion kit and barrel might be made to fit to a certain air rifle. Yet, the cost of the rifle would certainly limit its sales to an already small market. I think, its probably not that viable for a company to do it, unless already manufacturing very similar products. None of those such companies, are involved in Airsoft at the present. Airsoft is full of many, "WHAT IF's" and this is one of them. Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
wally squad Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Found one! Thanks to kimmo69 on another thread and brought to you by the Danes LINKY (in Danish) Translation kindly provided by kimmo They call the rifle "Hitmaxx" It is powered by a 200 bar air tank underneath the barrel as you can see in the picture, and it is filled with a hand-pump which is included with the rifle. The rifle was originally made by FX-Airguns in Sweden for the british market, where it is mainly used for hunting rabbits. They modify it so it can use 6mm bb's which are fired with a velocity of 210 meters per second, roughly 690 fps. The cocking handle is a skeet-shooting type (so it says on the homepage) with a very short, straight pull for maximum after-shot target aquisition. The magazine capacity is 8 bb's, and the rifle comes with 2 magazines. The Hitmaxx is delivered without scope or scope-mount. It is not possible to order the rifle online, as Dragons Lair want to make sure the buyer is experienced and knows the power of the rifle. Production time is 3-6 weeks. Although i think it would be possible for them to send it to whatever country where you live, if you just call them and ask nicely. Little pricey at around £1500 though Cheers d Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Exactly how consistent? I have 2 vsrs & they both chrono +/-1fps. Measured on a skan, day in, day out, month on month. If the aps-3 is really the most consistent you've ever seen, I must be sitting on a pair of golden bad boyz!! May also explain why they are so accurate when compared against others. Congrats, yours are extremely consistent rifles. PDI parts I presume? I'm sceptic about the accuracy of a scan chrono, but in any case that performance is impressive. Yes, consistent velocities contribute to great accuracy as you have noticed. Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I'd gladly pay 2000 eur for a pre-charged, rock solid (all cnc'd steel and aluminium) airsoft rifle which is more accurate than my VSR... The Hitmaxx looks promising, but has no references. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hmm, I think at some point there's a limit to how much the platform will help. When you think of it, even if the rifle is a magic device that produces a velocity and spin with absolute zero deviance, the BB is still a light plastic sphere when it's out at the mercy of field conditions. A slight gust of wind throws the BB off easily more than the accuracy difference between a top grade airsoft rifle and an imaginary "perfect rifle". -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
wally squad Posted April 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Of course the ammo is a limiting factor in this game, especially with sniper rifles. Hopefully though, this (or this type) of rifle would provide the following... A very solid base for the hop/barrel, and no piston strike which all helps reduce vibration/wobble and of course noise. Minimal cocking effort/movement, again, easier to stay concealed Consistent power, and enough gas for many shots. I know this is an expensive beast, but there are chinese precharge airrifles coming over now for about £100 - price of a bar10... You gotta keep evolving Cheers d Link to post Share on other sites
Trasher Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 At some point yes, but looking at the current systems I see a lot of room for improvement... Link to post Share on other sites
The Bushman Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Well, that is true, but a slight gust of wind still blows Air rifle pellets off course aswell. I understand they are different and that air rifles have rifling rather than hop up; yet they still strive to make better platforms in that field, that do improve performance. Wind blows real bullets off course and is not a factor, only Airsofters, have to deal with. You will still miss, as you say, but if you could get the pellets delivery into the environment, as identical as possible, you WILL hit more times. I suggest that although the HITMAXX sounds good, there is no mention of the HOP UP system used. It may well fall down, at the last hurdle. The HOP UP is the brain of the rifle and without the best brain, you won't be top of the class. If it has VSR10 rubbers, it could be awesome. The problem with the "brains" of Airsoft guns, is that they are made of rubber and wear out faster than our own. Just nipping out for 2 nights in my hammock. Good Hunting Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 I suggest that although the HITMAXX sounds good, there is no mention of the HOP UP system used. It may well fall down, at the last hurdle. The HOP UP is the brain of the rifle and without the best brain, you won't be top of the class. If it has VSR10 rubbers, it could be awesome. Thats because its a .22 airgun that they found out you can stuff 6mm bb's into the magazine. Link to post Share on other sites
wally squad Posted May 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Thats because its a .22 airgun that they found out you can stuff 6mm bb's into the magazine. No you can't. .22's are 5.5mm! I suggest anyone interested in this topic have a little look HERE at my little project Cheers d Link to post Share on other sites
TDS Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 No you can't. .22's are 5.5mm! And you can guarantee, no gun in the entire airgun market has ~.5mm of play so it can use airsoft rounds? Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 I'm very sceptic whether you could shoot a 6 mm BB with a .22 air gun. I know it doesn't work with .22 LR. The BB isn't even close to going into the chamber. (No, I didn't have skirmishing on my mind when I tried that. Just scientific curiocity.) -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.