DMR's and Marksmen

[UrPeaceKeeper]

This is mostly directed at UrPeaceKeeper. But I never understood how you got such effective ranges out of your DMR. I know not to question you since you use a laser range finder. But still. At the fps levels you always shot the Veteran at you would have to be lobbing. How high above the target did you hold, could you still see it in the scope and did you overhop your BB's? Because when I had my dmr down at around 450fps. To hit a a torso sized target at 250ft. The target would be barely visible in my scope and even then the wind always made the BB's fly unpredictably.

 

Probably a fluke in components Nah, I'm about to give away probably the biggest secret that most people never use. We all chrono our guns with .20's, but what weight BB are you using? Have you ever taken the time to calculate out the energy of various different BB weights as they run through your gun? You know that there is energy creep right? All of my guns are tuned to shoot a specific BB. My Veteran has been tuned, originally anyway, such that a .25 gram BB carried the most energy, any higher and I would lose energy, any lower and I would lose energy. Now it does it with .28's. This is IMPORTANT. Muzzle energy climb is a tactic (and admittedly probably a questionable one at that as it technically violates the FPS rules if you are at that verge) that I have taken advantage of. The difference between .25's and .20's was .02 of a joule of energy. Every little bit counts.

 

The second tactic was a slight climb at the end of the BB's path. The predictable drop as you call it. Knowing where this is at and it's repeatability is essential. My hold over target was approximately one foot over the persons head, maybe a few degrees, but nothing extreme. I'm not sure why a person at 80 yards is so small to you and barely visible in your scope, but 80 yards is not THAT far that through any 4x scope that someone is barely visible. Infact, at 80 yards, a person in a 4x scope is quite large. I do regular 100 yard shooting with my Remington 700 and it's not as far as people think, but it's also not as close as people think. The LRF we used that day to get 82.6 yards was a Bushnell LRF. I wish the person who I handed the camera to would have taken pictures of the person I was shooting at. He was bigger than you make it sound

 

The other thing here is what is your FPS variation? During that test my Veteran was down to +/-1 FPS (over a 10 shot string) which is about as tight as we are going to get airsoft guns using parts that are made to such lose tolerances and with such huge clearances. I mean, literally the only performance mods I had done to it was a #14 O-ring, a Madbull 6.03 509mm Tightbore, Guarder Black Hop Up rubber, a Big Out H Nub (The white one) and an Extreme-Fire Active Braking MOSFET. Not much done there! The Barrel probably wasn't even clean (I don't clean barrels that often, maybe 80,000 rounds or so).

[Panzergraf]

I'm saying that new Marui Socom, has low FPS/Range and it's not as easy to upgrade as "old-AEGs" and GBBRs.

 

You seem to be confued.

 

The Marui SOCOM refers to the Marui M14 SOCOM; a shortened M14 and a perfect candidate for a DMR.

 

 

Their recoil-M4 is the SOPMOD, though they are starting to add more guns to their recoil-line than just the SOPMOD M4.

btw; this new series has excellent hopup, so they're not that bad as bases for DMR-rifles.

 

 

 

And what's all this about having as much fps as possible?

That's not how you build a good DMR!

 

You need maximum consistency within your permitted fps-bracket, as all decent fields have fps limitations.

Many (most) good fields have separate limitations for semi-only rifles, and this is where you want your DMR.

 

Around here, 450fps with .2 is the max for semi-only rifles, so it becomes irrelevant if an old-type AEG or GBBR can more easily be upgraded to 5-600fps or not. What matters is having the most stable hopup and consistent velocity within the 450fps limit.

And good BB's.

 

 

While fps (or muzzle energy, to be more precise) is an important factor for achieving good range, it has a hard limit at whatever your local field permits; 450, 500, 550 or maybe even more. It's usually not unlimited.

[sniperelite7]

Probably a fluke in components Nah, I'm about to give away probably the biggest secret that most people never use. We all chrono our guns with .20's, but what weight BB are you using? Have you ever taken the time to calculate out the energy of various different BB weights as they run through your gun? You know that there is energy creep right? All of my guns are tuned to shoot a specific BB. My Veteran has been tuned, originally anyway, such that a .25 gram BB carried the most energy, any higher and I would lose energy, any lower and I would lose energy. Now it does it with .28's. This is IMPORTANT. Muzzle energy climb is a tactic (and admittedly probably a questionable one at that as it technically violates the FPS rules if you are at that verge) that I have taken advantage of. The difference between .25's and .20's was .02 of a joule of energy. Every little bit counts.

 

In my 4 years of of trying to reach long range in airsoft. I have never heard of energy creep. Even back at that time you schooled me on ASM Unless you where referring to making sure that no matter what BB weight you use. It has to fly at 380fps. In which case, I still never quite understood the concept apart from that its the ideal speed any BB should fly. Essentially too light a BB and it will act like a whiffle ball flying every which way. Too heavy and you start too lose range.

 

I use .30g BB's for skirmishing. I think they fly somewhere in the 400's out of my gun(515fps with .2).

 

Quick nitpicking. All your chrono results are with the hop-up off?

The second tactic was a slight climb at the end of the BB's path. The predictable drop as you call it. Knowing where this is at and it's repeatability is essential. My hold over target was approximately one foot over the persons head, maybe a few degrees, but nothing extreme. I'm not sure why a person at 80 yards is so small to you and barely visible in your scope, but 80 yards is not THAT far that through any 4x scope that someone is barely visible. Infact, at 80 yards, a person in a 4x scope is quite large. I do regular 100 yard shooting with my Remington 700 and it's not as far as people think, but it's also not as close as people think. The LRF we used that day to get 82.6 yards was a Bushnell LRF. wish the person who I handed the camera to would have taken pictures of the person I was shooting at. He was bigger than you make it sound

 

I meant that I was holding so high over the target that even with a slight overhop. I almost lose view of it in my scope. Back when my gun fired in the 450fps range(with .20s) and I used .30g for skirmishing then as well. Now, at 515fps I don't have to hold over that much, I am still using an overhop though.

 

The other thing here is what is your FPS variation? During that test my Veteran was down to +/-1 FPS (over a 10 shot string) which is about as tight as we are going to get airsoft guns using parts that are made to such lose tolerances and with such huge clearances. I mean, literally the only performance mods I had done to it was a #14 O-ring, a Madbull 6.03 509mm Tightbore, Guarder Black Hop Up rubber, a Big Out H Nub (The white one) and an Extreme-Fire Active Braking MOSFET. Not much done there! The Barrel probably wasn't even clean (I don't clean barrels that often, maybe 80,000 rounds or so).

 

Last I checked it was around +/- 2 or 3. Best I could do after 4 months of obsessive fiddling. -__-''

[TheFull9]

You seem to be confued.

 

The Marui SOCOM refers to the Marui M14 SOCOM; a shortened M14 and a perfect candidate for a DMR.

 

Their recoil-M4 is the SOPMOD, though they are starting to add more guns to their recoil-line than just the SOPMOD M4.

btw; this new series has excellent hopup, so they're not that bad as bases for DMR-rifles.

The general consensus now (in my experience now anyway) is that when someone says TM SOCOM, they mean this:

 

TM M4A1 'SOCOM' Carbine (Recoil System)

 

Being that the old M14 SOCOM isn't really something that people are buying any more.

[UrPeaceKeeper]

1.) In my 4 years of of trying to reach long range in airsoft. I have never heard of energy creep. Even back at that time you schooled me on ASM Unless you where referring to making sure that no matter what BB weight you use. It has to fly at 380fps. In which case, I still never quite understood the concept apart from that its the ideal speed any BB should fly. Essentially too light a BB and it will act like a whiffle ball flying every which way. Too heavy and you start too lose range.

 

I use .30g BB's for skirmishing. I think they fly somewhere in the 400's out of my gun(515fps with .2).

 

2.) Quick nitpicking. All your chrono results are with the hop-up off?

 

3.) I meant that I was holding so high over the target that even with a slight overhop. I almost lose view of it in my scope. Back when my gun fired in the 450fps range(with .20s) and I used .30g for skirmishing then as well. Now, at 515fps I don't have to hold over that much, I am still using an overhop though.

 

4.) Last I checked it was around +/- 2 or 3. Best I could do after 4 months of obsessive fiddling. -__-''

 

1.) I'm serious, go measure the FPS of your rifle using various weights of BB's, start with .20's and work your way up. Calculate the energy level of each BB and you will notice that the muzzle energy will creep up and then fall back down, as much as a tenth of a joule depending on the setup and the barrel. I still like my 380 FPS rule, but I'm finding more and more that my rifles shoot at their best muzzle energy at around 380-390 FPS regardless of BB weight, which seems to also support my theory Granted, this is anecdotal at best since it is within the realm of my tech experience.

 

2.) I've done both with it off and on. Consistency remains roughly the same.

 

3.) Ahh clearer yet I'll be honest, the scope on my M14 is not for use, only for looks. Airsoft is not accurate enough to warrant the use of a scope. I use natural point of aim and a twisted almost FPS shooting style of looking down the side of the rifle. Looks a bit strange in action photos, but allows me to make stupid quick shots at stupid long ranges based on my experience using my rifle. It also allows me to easily find other targets too. My scope, however, is canted up at the front to try and help zero the scope for about 50 yards, but I've since given up trying to zero the scope as it gets a bit ridiculous chasing that around when I'd rather just PLAY

 

4.) This should be acceptable. I think since upgrading my Veteran to shoot harder my FPS variation has opened up a little bit. I'm really not that arsed about +/-1 FPS consistency, my last Chrono results are showing +/- 2-3 FPS which is pretty dang good considering!

 

I have made longer than 80 yard shots before in game, but they where fluke lob shots that made me giggle loud enough to get shot rather fiercely. Never ceases to amaze me how much luck is actually involved in shooting an airsoft gun at long range

[sniperelite7]

I have made longer than 80 yard shots before in game, but they where fluke lob shots that made me giggle loud enough to get shot rather fiercely. Never ceases to amaze me how much luck is actually involved in shooting an airsoft gun at long range

 

Lul yeah. If only it wasn't so Guess i'll be stuck experimenting with BB's types.

[Rick O'Shay]

To the OP: As has been said before mate if you want a TM Recoil range rifle then you could get the Recce Rifle, its over at Zeroone but its stupidly expensive.

[Lightbulb]

FPS =/= Range.

 

Also, it does have upgrades, google Eagle6.

 

So a 280fps VSR shoots at the same range as a 500fps vsr?

 

FPS is (one of) the main factors in determining range. Hop quality is another. Quality of BB probably factors into it too.

[TheFull9]

I think the point is more that some guns with higher FPS can end up shooting less distance than those with a lower FPS. My SOCOMs do about 280 but they've got tightbores, carefully adjusted hops and good quality BBs going down them, I out-range guys shooting 50 FPS more quite frequently. As you say, there are other factors which are important but more FPS still definitely doesn't equate to more range.

[Seraphim989]

So a 280fps VSR shoots at the same range as a 500fps vsr?

 

FPS is (one of) the main factors in determining range. Hop quality is another. Quality of BB probably factors into it too.

 

Hurr durr, exaggerated argument makes original point invalid. No, he's obviously not saying that. He's saying there's a lot more to it than FPS, which seems to be what most people think of (including a fiar number of the people in this thread I'm sad to see). I had a well tuned SL8 which I'd designed from the ground up as a DMR. During the process of upgrades, it developed some compression problems, and was shooting ~200 FPS. I didn't have time to fix it before our skirmish and really wanted to try it out and what do you know, I was outranging everyone on the field. FPS is honestly one of the last things I care about when it comes to building a DMR, which is what I have done with ALL of my guns