swatti Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Right, got an ICS upper that has those wrong threads and i want that changed, there is a Madbull made delta ring -thingy... Sadly no-one sells that anywhere near or even in the country so i thought i'd try the local hardware-store first... On the madbull site it says "(M31.8X1.5)" so is that the correct size if i go and ask for one? I hope i made sense to someone. Translation aviable on request. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 You won't find a die like that in a hardware store. If I google that size, I only get airsoft sites as a result. That tells me that Madbull are the only people making it. You might find an M32x1.5, but whether that works or not I don't know. Maybe its precisely that 0.2mm that needs to be shaved off... edit: to clarify, that thingy is called a thread die, in Finnish, kierrepakka. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 The difference in ICS upper is very close but not quite... 0.2mm may be enough. You can force a real-steel deltaring in but thats cracked more then few uppers. Ive done two and i'd say my luck has ran out. Got a G&P upper here, if i take that to local specialiced store, could they get me "thread die" of correct size? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 If the thread is truly something funky like 31.8mm, then no, I don't think so. Looking on ebay, M32x1.5 are plentiful there, so you might find one of those in a hardware store. If you go in with a G&P upper and try on an M32 die and it fits snugly, then it might work. It will be fairly expensive though so you'd need to be sure. One weird idea I just thought of, it might be possible to turn the RS delta ring into a threading die. You would need to cut slots into it to serve as cutting surfaces. Generally thread dies will be made from some sort of hardened tool steel, but since you'd be cutting aluminium, it might work without hardening. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Thought I'd look this up, the thread on a real AR receiver is apparently 1-1/4" and 18tpi. In metric that comes out as 31.75mm diameter, 1.411mm pitch. So I guess that's what the Madbull M31.8x1.5 is going for. That's a fairly sizable difference in thread pitch so I don't know how that works out. Maybe someone who owns the Madbull tool can come and tell us. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Used an old real-steel ring to do the both i have with the method you mentioned. Poor junk was too beaten to fit anything else but still a bit too crude for me to try go for a third... Hmm. May need to go by local gun-store and see if they have anything... Not sure they need stuff like this often but might lend me a upper to take to the harware-store for measuring. That is, if the G&P aint proper dimensions etc... Link to post Share on other sites
SunnyUSAF Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 One weird idea I just thought of, it might be possible to turn the RS delta ring into a threading die. You would need to cut slots into it to serve as cutting surfaces. Generally thread dies will be made from some sort of hardened tool steel, but since you'd be cutting aluminium, it might work without hardening. I have done this on more than one occasion with all types of threads, cant find the die I need but I can find a nut that fits. I used a jewelers saw and cut slots in the internal threads of the nut (for small hardware, file and used the modified nut to chase the threads using cutting fluid (light wieght oil), work slow, 1/4 turn and back off, tighten down again, and go another 1/4 turn and repeat. Again go slow and clear the debris as you go and don't forget to use some sort of light wieght oil as cutting fluid. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Sounds more and more what i did... Still think going for third this way is pushing my luck too far. Both of the two could use proper finisher too, the threads go only as far as it needed to fit the front-end. Link to post Share on other sites
ctres94 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Brownells has the correct dies. USCMcorps has done it before and just mentioned something about it in the ar15 pic thread. I'd recommend that you talk to him. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted March 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Just need the correct size and then il do my round around town looking for it... Link to post Share on other sites
ctres94 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Well it's an American sizing system I believe, so you may have a hard time finding it in Europe. You will probably have to look for any American place that will ship it. Either way, I'd recommend you contact Brownells or USCMcorps on here who could tell you the size. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 There's currently an UK seller on ebay selling the imperial size die. 33€ shipped, made from HSS. Bit of a steal really, almost wan't to buy it myself even though I don't need it. Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 OK, now I'm really confused. Received wisdom has it that G&P threads (and *some* ICS threads) are imperial-spec, and hence "larger" than the metric-spec used on most AEGs, for which reason G&P barrel nuts fit somewhat loosely on most other AEG receivers, but regular barrel nuts won't go on G&P receivers without modifying the threads. So far so good. Madbull makes (or used to make) a thread die that would enable its products fit on G&P receivers. The Madbull tool is clearly stamped M31.8 x 1.5. Now, when you start looking at real-steel AR-15s, it transpires that the standard thread size on them is 1.25" -18 TPI (x 0.525"). 1.25" = 31.75mm according to Google, and again according to G the nearest thing to 18 TPI is supposedly M1.5. So now I'm confused. If the Madbull die is very similar to an imperial real-steel die, how is it cutting down the imperial G&P threads to a size to make them work with metric AEG nuts? So I'm wondering if, rather than diameter, it's more a question of pitch (number of turns per inch and depth), as those conversions that I just cited are not absolutely exact. Can anyone throw any light on this? Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Im hoping to find out what the real-steel is and find a die to make THEM, not airsoft ones. I use real-steel delta-ring since they cost about as much as best as-models but are even better. I suggest anyone to do the same. Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Just for information (I realize you're not in the US): http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/taps-dies/ar-15-m16-receiver-taps-dies-prod636.aspx 1 3/16" is for the buffer tube; 1.25" is for the receiver (as per above). Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 In case anyone's wondering, the Madbull tool DOES NOT render RS-sized threads, at least so far as my experience goes. I was very kindly lent one by QQexDERA under the impression that I could use it to rethread my SOPMOD (Marui threading) to accept my Inokatsu's delta ring (RS threading). It doesn't work - in fact, it barely removed anything (even the paint) from the SOPMOD. I had incorrectly assumed that there were just two types of threading - non-RS, and RS - but I was wrong; there are apparently enough different types of non-RS threading that the Madbull tool was released in order to make all non-RS threads into one specific sort. Link to post Share on other sites
mimesis Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Yes, this squares exactly with my experience. A while ago I gathered together barrel nuts from metric AEG, G&P, and real steel, and receivers from metric AEG and G&P. Some of the results were obvious, but these are significant ones: the G&P fitted on the metric loosely, the metric wouldn't fit on the G&P (it started, but wouldn't go further). The real steel piece that I was experimenting with screwed on to both, but the standard r.s. nut is "deeper" (looked at from the side, it's longer horizontally), so that when the back of it is hitting the receiver, the front is still 2-3mm away from the flanges of the outer barrel. This doesn't begin to address GBBr and whether there are variations of thread specification between brands of GBBr. AFAIK, the Madbull tool is specifically (and probably solely) designed to modify G&P and G&P-like threads to AEG metric threads. Conclusion: it's all much more to do with pitch (how far the individual threads are apart, how deep the groove goes) than it is with diameter. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I looked around RS forums for the info then found this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-1-4-18-UNS-Die-Nut-18-TPI-HSS-UK-Manufactured-/180458350944?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item2a0427e960 Had a word with uscm and he confirmed it's right. I've got a Midwest Industries forend here for the gun that's getting the work done, so we shall see how things go. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 CKinnerley, I'll be interested to know how that pans out. If you can use it to turn AEG threading into RS, that'll be an absolute godsend. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I believe the specs of the thread I'm altering are standard metric AEG, so I'll post up in some form or another with regards how everything works out. Actually still need an upper receiver vice block thinking about it... Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted March 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Less then 40 euros for die... Not bad, gotta go do my rounds and ask around, i doubt anyone here can beat that ebay-price. Mind you, ive never used ebay so if did hit "buy now" id get for the price mentioned there? Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 You'll probably need to make an ebay + paypal account, but yeah if it says "Buy It Now" then it's not an auction, you pay the price on the screen. Link to post Share on other sites
Crimson Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 You'll probably need to make an ebay + paypal account, but yeah if it says "Buy It Now" then it's not an auction, you pay the price on the screen. What happened to this then? Did it work Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Not had the chance to try yet. Living a hundred miles away from all your airsoft stuff makes working on said stuff with any frequency a little awkward. Anything that vaguely resembles a weapon has to be kept in the station armoury and they don't exactly have the spare room for my entire collection of BB slingers. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Lazyness got the better of me, then i got stuck to working day and night again... Got to stop by at local stores to see what they got and then make some ICS metal bleed. Link to post Share on other sites
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