Religious certainty

[expvideo]

Isn't it a little condescending to say "Happy Holidays" rather than "Happy Christmas". You know, the person you are saying it too knows and anyone in earshot knows that it's Christmas! Why not say it?

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no. it's not condescending to say happy holidays. merry christmas is condescending to all of the people that celebrate hannika or Kwanza, or DON'T CELEBRATE for that matter. Happy holidays is all-inclusive. It even includes me. Who celebrates a "winter holiday". I don't celebrate christmas. and I am insulted by "merry christmas". It's a statement that assumes that everyone is christian, and makes me feel "weird" and outcasted for not being christian. And as you can tell from the religion poll, the majority of us are not christian either.

 

I'm not just going to abandon my beliefs in the "spirit of the season".

[expvideo]

Its that damn a popularity thing again .........to get a christmas number one is always big bucks. same with most things, its always the celebrities that manage to pull all the attention and get involved first rather than "jack and gill" in the corner doing something truly representable

 

Is the guy your thinking about called Petty Tom, i know he wrote a song along thoughs lines.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, and I forgot, what the hell is wrong with the world when a guy is singing "Santa Baby"? I'm serious! I have to hear it 4 or 5 times a day at work! and it's not some guy with a lisp, either. Picture a 300lb biker singing "Santa Cutie..."! It make hair stand up on my back! And I don't even have back hair!

 

*shudder*

[Diesel_P]

Oh, and I forgot, what the hell is wrong with the world when a guy is singing "Santa Baby"?  I'm serious!  I have to hear it 4 or 5 times a day at work!  and it's not some guy with a lisp, either.  Picture a 300lb biker singing "Santa Cutie..."!  It make hair stand up on my back!  And I don't even have back hair!

 

*shudder*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very good!

i would +1 you for that but not enough posts yet!

ill make a note.

[Chimpy]

no.  it's not condescending to say happy holidays.  merry christmas is condescending to all of the people that celebrate hannika or Kwanza, or DON'T CELEBRATE for that matter.  Happy holidays is all-inclusive.  It even includes me.  Who celebrates a "winter holiday".  I don't celebrate christmas.  and I am insulted by "merry christmas".  It's a statement that assumes that everyone is christian, and makes me feel "weird" and outcasted for not being christian.  And as you can tell from the religion poll, the majority of us are not christian either.

 

I'm not just going to abandon my beliefs in the "spirit of the season".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you celebrate a 'winter holiday' at the same time as Christmas, with the same general ideas of family, giving and recieving gifts and having a good time. Sounds rather like Christmas to me. The point I guess I'm aiming at is that most people probably don't celebrate Christmas as a religious occasion anymore. The only connection to it is in the name and after all it has to be called something, sticking with the one it already has seems sensible.

 

It's crazy you feel so offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas" to you! What happened to tolerance? Or does it only work in one direction for you?

[expvideo]

So you celebrate a 'winter holiday' at the same time as Christmas, with the same general ideas of family, giving and recieving gifts and having a good time. Sounds rather like Christmas to me. The point I guess I'm aiming at is that most people probably don't celebrate Christmas as a religious occasion anymore. The only connection to it is in the name and after all it has to be called something, sticking with the one it already has seems sensible.

 

It's crazy you feel so offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas" to you! What happened to tolerance? Or does it only work in one direction for you?

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I don't press my religion on others, and I'd like the same courtesy returned. I don't hang weird decorations or ask my family and friends to join me in religious holidays.

[Chimpy]

I don't press my religion on others, and I'd like the same courtesy returned.  I don't hang weird decorations or ask my family and friends to join me in religious holidays.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We've already established that no one is pressing their religion on you! Sounds to me like you want people to be tolerant of your beliefs without you being tolerant of theirs.

 

If someone said "Merry Christmas, the Baby Jesus is coming!" or something along those lines you might have a point. If you were required to go to church you would definately have a point! But they don't and you aren't.

 

It's only a religious holiday if you make it one!

[expvideo]

We've already established that no one is pressing their religion on you!

 

If someone said "Merry Christmas, the Baby Jesus is coming!" or something along those lines you might have a point. If you were required to go to church you would definately have a point! But they don't and you aren't.

 

It's only a religious holiday if you make it one!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my winter holiday is not a religious holiday. it's not a celebration of religion in any way. It's a celebration of the season changing, rebirth, and basically verility in general.

 

Christmas, on the otherhand, is a religious holiday, celebrating a religious event, and is NOT the same thing just because we have similar traditions of gift giving. I like my winter holiday because it means spending time with my family, giving and receiving, and ending the year on a good note. My family does not press the religious parts of the holiday on me, even though they are devout catholics. They also do not expect me to say grace at the dinner table, or join them at church. They would be more disappointed in me if i did give into their practices, because they want me to have my own beliefs. Just because we have the same rituals does not mean that we accept our holidays to be the same. they are celebrating the birth of their god, and I am celebrating the season. We gather together, forgetting religion in general, and celebrate our time together.

[Lance Jackass]

Well i managed to live through meningitis, so i feel that something saved my *albatross* back there. Whether it was drugs or an outside force i have no idea.

[Chimpy]

We gather together, forgetting religion in general, and celebrate our time together.

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You realise that is Christmas for most people. Or at least most people that I know!

 

Your viewpoint seems to be that the word Christmas can in no way be divorced from it's religious context no matter how the word is used by others. Certainly the birth and original meaning of the word comes from religion, like the origins of other words and names which now have little or no religious significance outside of the religion other than their origin.

 

Are you upset by "Yueltide Greetings"? Given that it's commonly used at Christmas and although not Christian is a religious celebration (called Yule). Why do you think Christians aren't offended by it and use it freely although clearly it refers to a different religion with a similar method of celebration?

[expvideo]

You realise that is Christmas for most people. Or at least most people that I know!

 

Your viewpoint seems to be that the word Christmas can in no way be divorced from it's religious context no matter how the word is used by others. Certainly the birth and original meaning of the word comes from religion, like the origins of other words and names which now have little or no religious significance outside of the religion other than their origin.

 

Are you upset by "Yueltide Greetings"? Given that it's commonly used at Christmas and although not Christian is a religious celebration (called Yule). Why do you think Christians aren't offended by it and use it freely although clearly it refers to a different religion with a similar method of celebration?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not offended by the word christmas. I'm offended by the people that get all bent out of shape when I (a non-christian) say "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas". I'll wish someone a merry christmas if I know they are christian, but it's a little rude of me to treat everyone as if they were. I wish my jewish friends a happy hannika, and I wish my pagan friends a happy sulstice, they don't expect me to have the same religion, so they tell me "happy holidays". Would it be ok if everyone at WalMart was saying "happy hannika!" to the customers?

[screamin_weasel]

canrt eb arsed to read the rest of the thread, but here goes.

 

i think god can be interpreted as whatever you want

 

i believe god is what fills bottles that has a label on the front reading "Newcastle Brown Ale".

 

in all seriousness, i dont believe either way, and quite frankly couldn't really give a stuff. it doesn't bother me at all, and if anything im much more inclined to believe the scientific theory of creation - like, 99% more.

[Predator_2k]

I know about the Pagan thing, I read the davinci code recently and I was shcoked at the stuff it had init aobut the Bibl, and Chrsitianity Jesus etc...

I'm just annoyed at how christmas has kind of lost it's original meaning, yes people are giving and receiving and its (in most cases) a jolly occasion which yes is a good thing, but i still think it has become a commerciallised event, that tries to squeeze as much money out of your pocket as it possibly can.

[Chimpy]

I'm not offended by the word christmas.  I'm offended by the people that get all bent out of shape when I (a non-christian) say "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas".  I'll wish someone a merry christmas if I know they are christian, but it's a little rude of me to treat everyone as if they were.  I wish my jewish friends a happy hannika, and I wish my pagan friends a happy sulstice, they don't expect me to have the same religion, so they tell me "happy holidays".  Would it be ok if everyone at WalMart was saying "happy hannika!" to the customers?

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When its hannika I wouldn't mind! Although I find it extremely unlikely given that it's not a popular celebration embraced by the non-denominational.

 

I can understand the offence if someone is offended by a greeting! But you yourself say you try not to offend someone by a greeting and likewise so do your friends. Begging the question would you be offended if someone said "Merry Christmas" to you?

 

It all seems rather like political correctness gone mad. Especially with the debate going on about it in the States at the moment.

[Frangible]

Do bear in mind though that the Da Vinci Code is a complete load of old cobblers.. there's no Priory of Syon (it's a modern hoax) and the evidence for a bloodline of Jesus continuing is totally non-existent..

[Chimpy]

I know about the Pagan thing, I read the davinci code recently and I was shcoked at the stuff it had init aobut the Bibl, and Chrsitianity Jesus etc...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm, you do realise that it's a work of fiction! Yes it may use some facual backing to facilitate the story but I wouldn't say it was a good primer into Christianity or the Bible!

[Full Metal Jacket]

Umm, you do realise that it's a work of fiction! Yes it may use some facual backing to facilitate the story but I wouldn't say it was a good primer into Christianity or the Bible!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What, and the bible isn't?

[Predator_2k]

I meant the parts in it, that dan brown (the author) took from that other book (i've forgotten the name) about the various things about Chrisitanity, like the extra parts of the Bible, I don't believe the bloodline thing, or the priory thing, but there are thing sin there that make you think more closly about the Christian faith, I beleive it was int ehre i found out about Christmas originally being a pagan festival.

 

hmm come to think of I do beleive i discussed that stuff with a friend, rather than reading it in that book, I'm very sorry and a tad embarresed.....

[Chimpy]

What, and the bible isn't?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not in the same way though.

 

Scientology being a good example of how you can get people to believe in any old thing if you dress it up nicely.

[expvideo]

When its hannika I wouldn't mind! Although I find it extremely unlikely given that it's not a popular celebration embraced by the non-denominational.

 

I can understand the offence if someone is offended by a greeting! But you yourself say you try not to offend someone by a greeting and likewise so do your friends. Begging the question would you be offended if someone said "Merry Christmas" to you?

 

It all seems rather like political correctness gone mad. Especially with the debate going on about it in the States at the moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes. i would be offended if a total stranger working the door at WalMart told me "merry christmas". First I would be insulted that I am "supposed" to be celebrating someone else's holiday. Then I would be insulted that he didn't mean it, and was just saying it for the 6000th time that day. I hate when people treat religion that way. Even if it isn't my religion.

[expvideo]

Not in the same way though.

 

Scientology being a good example of how you can get people to believe in any old thing if you dress it up nicely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your blanket statements really bother me. Scientology may be a newer religion, but it doesn't mean it's wrong. It has more solid evidence than christianity, so don't discount it as "any old thing". Here's a good example of me getting offended about religion, even if it isn't my religion that's being insulted.

[Chimpy]

yes.  i would be offended if a total stranger working the door at WalMart told me "merry christmas".  First I would be insulted that I am "supposed" to be celebrating someone else's holiday.  Then I would be insulted that he didn't mean it, and was just saying it for the 6000th time that day.  I hate when people treat religion that way.  Even if it isn't my religion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Isn't that rather hypocritical though, since you'd be offended if someone was offended by your "Happy Holiday" greeting.

 

I'm still somewhat confused that you have to equate Christmas with Christian celebration.

[expvideo]

Isn't that rather hypocritical though, since you'd be offended if someone was offended by your "Happy Holiday" greeting.

 

I'm still somewhat confused that you have to equate Christmas with Christian celebration.

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again, how the hell are you unable to see a connection with christmas and christianity?!?! They are christ based. I celebrate a similar holiday but it isn't *fruitcage*-ing christmas! CHRISTmas is a CHRISTian holiday.

[Chimpy]

your blanket statements really bother me.  Scientology may be a newer religion, but it doesn't mean it's wrong.  It has more solid evidence than christianity, so don't discount it as "any old thing".  Here's a good example of me getting offended about religion, even if it isn't my religion that's being insulted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes a religion invented by a science-fiction author that many see as nothing more than a popular cult!

 

You're making equal blanket statements about Christmas being purely celebrated by Christians when that simply isn't true.

 

again, how the hell are you unable to see a connection with christmas and christianity?!?! They are christ based. I celebrate a similar holiday but it isn't *fruitcage*-ing christmas! CHRISTmas is a CHRISTian holiday.

 

Read back then, my previous posts acknowledge that. Christianity is primarily the reason we have Christmas in the form it is celebrated. Christmas is the name for the celebration and has been in common usage by both Christians and non-Christians to describe Christmas festivities. It makes sense as a name, since it explores both the roots of the celebration (going right back to the original pagan festivals) and is the most commonly used name to describe it!

 

In short calling it the 'winter festival' doesn't change the roots of the celebration! Whats wrong with having a celebration come out of religion? In my mind absolutely nothing so why hide it!

[Predator_2k]

Oh and for the love of god (like the pun?) don't say it's okay to use X-Mas instead of Christmas if you're not christian becuase if you have a quick look on www.dictionary.com you'll come up with this:

 

Usage Note: Xmas has been used for hundreds of years in religious writing, where the X represents a Greek chi, the first letter of, “Christ.” In this use it is parallel to other forms like Xtian, “Christian.” But people unaware of the Greek origin of this X often mistakenly interpret Xmas as an informal shortening pronounced (ksms). Many therefore frown upon the term Xmas because it seems to them a commercial convenience that omits Christ from Christmas.

[expvideo]

Yes a religion invented by a science-fiction author that many see as nothing more than a popular cult!

 

You're making equal blanket statements about Christmas being purely celebrated by Christians when that simply isn't true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WHAT?!?! I never said only christians celebrate christmas! I said christmas is a christian holiday, it doesn't mean only christians celebrate it! And I think you need to look up the definition of "blanket statements", my saying "I don't celebrate christmas because I'm not christian" is not the same as calling a whole religion ######! Scientology is no more BS than judaism, christianity, mormonism, or islam! It's a religion, and you shouldn't be making those kind of statements about other people's beliefs.

 

Read back then, my previous posts acknowledge that. Christianity is primarily the reason we have Christmas in the form it is celebrated. Christmas is the name for the celebration and has been in common usage by both Christians and non-Christians to describe Christmas festivities. It makes sense as a name, since it explores both the roots of the celebration (going right back to the original pagan festivals) and is the most commonly used name to describe it!

 

In short calling it the 'winter festival' doesn't change the roots of the celebration! Whats wrong with having a celebration come out of religion? In my mind absolutely nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

because I don't celebrate a religious holiday, and my holiday doesn't have religious roots, because I don't have a religion. I celebrate a time of year and a symbolism of the changing of seasons. It ISN'T christmas, and I'm not CALLING it christmas. Period. MY celebration has NO religious roots, because I have NO religion.