final questions for G&P M4, I hope

[tgrillo]

umm what does that have to do with my question?

 

For god sakes, use the search button (its RED), there is a review by kryptik in the review database, and you can start your own topic asking.

 

Why hijack mine?

[kawasakiguy37]

have you received your strike chamber yet? That should come with a V hop arm....in which case, youll want to use a normal bucking, no cutting. I dont think you use a hopup nub with a V hop arm either...I could be wrong though

[ronburgundy__]

Strike chambers have a regular hopup arm.

[msx361]

Systema stuff is as good as any other, it might take a little while for the bucking to bed in. Also you worry to much about using different makes/brands together, the only real bits that i personally would want to all be made by the same people is the gears.

 

Good luck pal

[FragileMachine]

I would not worry about Systema vs. Guarder bucking, tgrillo. You won't notice a difference. Although, I personally would have choosen Guarder. Just brand loyalty, no perceivable difference to me.

 

My G&P is pretty basic on the outside. Uhh...I added a scope and sling. That's about it. I plan to either switch the front end to a G&P RAS II or the CA short SPR front end. I'm going to attach a G&P long M203 and eventually get a Guarder Aimpoint replica + the TGS night vision scope (red dot version, not the 4x one). Then I'll have a Rico Alpha 9 if I want to switch the M203 out. I also sometimes put a small silencer of the gun. I have a real steel LE 6-position stock and tube and the real steel stock adaptor from G&P, but I didn't realize it needed custom cutting into the metal body to still work, which costs a lot of money and I'm not sure I want to do it.

 

To answer that other guy's question, G&P parts are pretty good, but you'll need to fine tune it and adjust the installation. It's actually not that hard if you know you're way around gearboxes. If I were to rebuy, I would still get G&P and I know I would buy far fewer upgrade parts. The only thing I would get would be a systema plastic nozzle and the G&P piston head with bearings and a hop-up rubber (either Guarder or V-notch). Everything else would stay G&P on the inside. The reason I replaced so many other things was because someone working on my gun broke them and I got sick of them trying to fix my gun, so I had it fixed myself. I gave it to them in the first place because when I first started on this gun, I was pretty new to gearboxes, and while at the time, I have been in out of them around 10 times, I was getting sick of opening and closing it.

[tgrillo]

Over the past few weeks, I think through all of our conversations this list can be made:

 

1. The mixture of the heavy nozzle and the overly strong tappet plate spring is why tappet plates break, not the sector gear. I would reccomend massaging of the tappet spring and replacement of the air nozzle to a different non metal brand.

 

2. Arching connectors. I fried mine because I didnt change them in the first place, but if you dont fry them, just get some needlenose plyers and gently squeeze the connectors together as to eliminate arching (this is when electrical currents "jump" from metal to metal because they are not touching. G&P connectors are .5-1mm apart for some reason)

 

3. Hopup arm does not fit right in the hopup chamber, so a little bit of filing is required to allow it to have a full range of motion up and down. You can do that, or just buy another hopup unit if you would like.

 

4. Hopup bucking is about 4mm longer than my prometheus bucking. When I get the systema I will compare, as it might just be that the prometheus is undersized and the G&P is the right size. I'm not sure if this affects performance, but most users replace their buckings anyways. Guarder, Systema, Prometheus (conflicting results), and a few other buckings have been tested with success. The stock inner barrel is about 1mm tighter than my stock CA inner barrel, and it seems to be of good quality. Any brand tightbore barrel has been successfully reported in the G&P.

 

5. Bad factory shimming. This varies from user to user, just like any other brand. Pretty much any non TM AEG will have bad shimming.

 

6. *NOTE- This only happened to me and one other person that I am aware of (username- "Carbine")* The mag catch is not working properly. Due to it being too thin, when a magazine is inserted it "pops" back down about 7mm, making it so that the bb release is not actuated, causing non feeds. Replacement with Guarder or Systema mag catch remidied the problem for Carbine. I still havent installed mine, but when I do I will tell you if it worked. This is probably a V1 G&P (Pre 2006) only problem, so you dont really have to worry about it.

 

7. Going back to the overly strong tappet spring, other misc. springs in the gearbox are too strong, causing reassembly of the gearbox to by mildly difficult. If you have the money, drop $5 on a systema spring set. Or you can just massage the tappet spring and deal with the other ones. No harm.

 

 

That is about it. Here is a list of things you should do upon receiving your G&P:

 

-Test mag well and see if it holds the mags up

-Open gun. File down hopup chamber and replace hopup bucking.

-Open gearbox. Relube, Reshim, etc.

-Massage Tappet Plate Spring

-Replace Air nozzle

-Check the connectors for a gap. I believe this was fixed in post-2006 models

-Close gun. Test gun. Shoot people. Enjoy your perfect air seal, awesome accuracy, wonderful externals, and the pure joy of getting more for your money.

 

Correct me if I messed up somewhere fragile.

[phoenixkskg]

Or.... you could just not buy a G&P... And if you like the externals, get a TM and add the appropriate G&P metal body... Probably would cost you less than buying a G&P and trying to fix it.

[tgrillo]

phoenix, if you stopped being a TM fanboy for JUST a second, look at the list, the only part needed to buy is an AIR NOZZLE. Now I dont know about you, but I would rather buy a $10 part and spend the time fixing and learning about my gearbox rather than spending $300-400 in external and internal upgrades on top of the cost of buying and importing a TM. Oh, and maybe another $5-10 for a new bucking if you would like.

 

G&P M4- $430 for CQBR, $300 for regular M4A1 Carbine

$10 for systema air nozzle

$5-10 for prometheus shim set

$10 for bucking

Shipping- $60-100 HK

 

Total- $560 shipped for CQBR (assuming highest cost for shipping and prices for parts), $430 for m4a1 (same as above)

 

 

TM M4 New Type- $240

Guarder Colt Metal Aluminum Diecast Body- $150

King Arms/G&P CQBR Front kit- $125-160

G&P/Prime Crane Stock- ~$70-80

Steel Spring Guide, Steel Gears, 3metal tooth Polyamide Piston, upgrade spring, vented unidirectional piston head, non ported tapered cylinder and steel cylinder head, air nozzle, 7mm bearing gearbox, reinforced tappet plate, deans ultra connector upgrade (less ressistance)- ~$250

G&P/Guarder/King Arms Aimpoint- ~$50

Shipping from HK- $150-200 (huge shipment for all of those parts eh?)

 

Subtotal- $1000-1200

 

Sell your stock TM gearbox w/o wiring, plastic body, stock, front, etc- ~$150

 

~$1000 is the total. That is VERY generous.

 

 

To make a regular M4 carbine:

 

TM M4 New Type- $240

Guarder Colt Metal Aluminum Diecast Body- $150

G&P M4 Front End (hey, we need quality foregrips, not that ###### TM calls handguards)- $50-60

Steel Spring Guide, Steel Gears, 3metal tooth Polyamide Piston, upgrade spring, vented unidirectional piston head, non ported tapered cylinder and steel cylinder head, air nozzle, 7mm bearing gearbox, reinforced tappet plate, deans ultra connector upgrade (less ressistance)- ~$250

Shipping from HK- $100-150 (Still a very large shipment)

 

Subtotal- $650-750

 

Sell TM Mechbox w/o wiring- $50

 

Total- $600-700

 

For $100-150 LESS than the regular M4 from TM, you can get a G&P CQBR.

 

Now I dont know about you, but 2-3 hours MAX in the shop is better than paying $150-500 more for a TM conversion.

 

Now, all of those internals I said to replace in the TM, those are all products that would bring it up to spec with G&P, just to point out why I chose so many. YES, G&P mechboxes are THAT good.

 

 

 

 

Hahahahhahahahah phoenix stay off my intranets. Farking pownz0rized.

[phoenixkskg]

Wow I cant believe you just wrote all that, I dont even care. It was only a suggestion, also, apparently I am a TM fanboy because I suggested a TM once, and I own a TM... hmmm thats some spot on logic right there. Also, would I pay 150 more for a gun I know wont break randomly and me have to go into the mechbox? Yes, I would. Ive seen countless complaints of G&P guns breaking down. I like how people say guns are good when you have to go inside them multiple times just to get them to work correctly. Notice how your topic says "final questions for G&P M4, I hope." This shows you have less faith in the G&P M4, and that you probably have had to fix it before. Now, I am not following your whole G&P M4 "saga", as you think people are by your sig. I dont think people really care about what guns you keep or not. Oh, and its real hard to make yourself look mature and smart when you use terms like "farking pwnzorized." And no, I will go on whatever "internets" I choose.

[tgrillo]

rofl, yah, the saga continues. The reason I put that there was I kept getting emails with offers for my gun, cause I had a for sale link in my sig. I was going to mod a G36, but then I decided just to stick with the G&P, cause carbine suggested how to fix the feeding problem I had.

 

And yes, there are some people that know about my gun, and I know about others, cause we have two 6 page long topics about the hopup units and such.

 

This is the first time I have opened my G&P M4 by the way, I dont know where you get the "multiple" thing from. The reason fragile said that was because the techs were not finding/solving the problems.

 

Get off my intranets dude, for the good of everyone.

 

pay your $150+, I'll stick with G&P cause I can actually work with things mechanical, which you obviously cant considering you only own a TM AK47, probably not very upgraded.

[phoenixkskg]

Yes, make fun of people because of their lack of money.. very classy.. At least my gun works consistantly. And obviously you cant work with things mechanically THAT well, because you needed the help of everyone in this topic. So quit acting like you are the mastermind of gearboxes.

[tgrillo]

I dont make fun of people with a lack of money, in fact, my brother (12 years old) just got into airsoft and is using a stock AK47, and let me say, its nice. He is having a blast (no pun intended) using it, but he also doesnt like how my gun shoots about 30 feet farther than his and hurts more

 

I just wanted to point out that since I am pretty good with technical/mechanical things, I really dont see a problem with using a gun that requires maintanance.

 

I guess no one can speculate about this until I'm done with the upgrade, and to the first time it breaks. Keep in mind I'm running a bit above forum limits, so it WILL BREAK. How many shots? I dont know, but when it does, flame as much as you want if it is under 15,000 rounds.

[ronburgundy__]

G&P am best gun.

[tgrillo]

G&P am best gun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

QFT, QFT

[FragileMachine]

Lol. "G&P am best gun."

 

TM, yes, are great, but they are externally ugly as sin. They are also in my eyes, for beginners, because they have no upgrades. That means you need a full-tune-up kit inside, a new gearbox shell to bring it up to par with the reinforced GP one, and then a full external make over to match the GP.

 

That's metal body, front end, outer barrel, pins, selector switches, mag catches, pistol grip, foregrips/fake gas tube (which TM did wrong), metal body (because the TM ones are all the wrong shade of black/gray).

 

The only few things TM did right was the sling, which GP did wrong, and also, the TM 4-position stock is much better than the shiny GP one.

 

GP wiring is also better than TM's after you make sure the contacts will contact fully to prevent unnecessary arcing.

 

Yes, my GP did take a lot of work, but guess what, it's firing reliably now. I just used it at a game last weekend and I went through several hi-caps without a hiccup expect when the battery was low. But my gun was far more tuned than a regular TM, my gun was much quieter and I didn't do any of that gearbox silencing then. I just had my motor, gears broken in and shimmed well with good amounts of lube.

 

Like everyone should already know, GP are not beginner guns and you must be very gearbox and mechnically inclined. Otherwise, stick with your stock TM and be happy with that plastic hunk and 285 FPS shooting toy.

 

There is another common problem with GP though. Semi/full auto modes acting physically like safety. I've tried switching to a TM cutoff lever, but not much difference. What did help was when you are putting in the back body pin and the small pin above the trigger, make sure you keep testing if the trigger can be pulled back on these modes as the pin goes deeper and deeper until flush with the body. I don't know why a fraction of a mm can throw the gun into safety on all modes sometimes, it may be cutoff lever (but TM one seemed to have similar problems, though less frequently than the GP one), it may be the GP trigger spring. It's annoying and I haven't experienced it on other guns, but once you get it right, it will be right. You don't necessarily have to go out and buy new parts to make it right for this problem. The gearbox must fit in precisely in the receiver as well, otherwise not only will you not have working semi/auto modes, but the selector switch will be hard to turn (you may feel like you're going to snap your selector plate) and you won't get that satisfactory click.

 

The GP spring in the foregrip that holds the front end together is way too strong too. Nothing functionally faulty, but annoying as hell when changing batteries.

 

TM guns are great stock guns and great upgrading bases, but if you really want to upgrade, just start with a G&P. Reason: if you're upgrading, you know how to do tech already, so why not start with the G&P insteading of buying so many more external/internal parts?

 

I'll just end with this. I was not quite a beginner when I got my G&P M4, but not super experienced either. The G&P M4, plus random other offers I made to my friends to look at their random guns (MP5s, G36C, other M4s, Glocks, etc.), is how I learned most of my tech. True, I've taken it apart many times, but only because I didn't fully now what I was doing. But with each subsequent attempt, I learned more and more as I noticed new things and discovered what needed to be fixed and what was working. Now, I have a solid, reliable G&P gun.

 

The reason I spent twice the amount of money on it is because of the sheer amount of upgrades I put into it, including Prometheus double torque up gears, Prometheus spring, new bucking, new gearbox shell entirely, new piston head (this time with bearings, stock GP does not have bearings). I paid lots of money to the tech, who never truly solved the problems, paid for the extra parts he said were needed, but turns out, weren't really needed. Paid for return shipping several times.

 

Give me a new G&P, and I can fix it and maybe even slightly upgrade it for less than $50, the standard bushing and spring upgrade cost.

[ronburgundy__]

ima get me a WGCShop Custom M4 Based of a G&P. All the goodies in one 300$ package! I cant wait!

[FragileMachine]

Goodluck uncovering the trades.

[ronburgundy__]

Why do you say that?

[FragileMachine]

WGC seems to cover them up pretty good.

[kawasakiguy37]

Youd be best off installing a TM m4 new type hopup full set in your gun......full V hop done perfectly.

[tgrillo]

kawasaki, I translated some japanese sites about the tm m4-s, and it does NOT have V hopup arm. It may have a V bucking, but it is improbable.

[davedawg123]

Since this thread seems to have an abundance of great info regarding internal upgrades for G&P AEG's, I hope no one minds if I ask a few upgrade questions here, rather than have someone just refer me to this thread.

 

I just purchased a G&P CQBR, and there are a few minor external upgrades I'd like to make. In the process of ordering overseas, I thought I might as well pick up a few internal items since they are so cheap. I am planning on ordering the following:

 

- Systema Air Seal Nozzle For Marui M16A2,M4A1 And SR16 (what's the difference with: Systema Air Seal Nozzle For Marui M16 Series, Will Fit Marui M16A1,M16VN & XM177E2)

- Systema Shim Set

- Guarder Improved Hop Bucking ( 70 )

 

Are these parts adequate replacements? Are different parts/manufacturers recommended?

[tgrillo]

Go with the guarder air nozzle instead. I have the systema air nozzle in my M4 and it is kind of loose on the cylinder nozzle. The guarder has an internal o ring and will help with the air seal.

 

Systema shim set is fine, thats what I used on mine.

 

Unless you are going above 4** FPS you dont need the 70%. Guarder, Systema, and Prometheus are all tried and true in G&P guns. Go with whatever you like best. I opted for the systema in mine, but then again I am also using a systema chamber and a systema nozzle . I'm also using a Big Out H Hop Nub.

 

Good Luck with your new M4 d00d. Enjoy.

 

PS- Throw in a systema spring set. I HATE the spring set in the G&P M4, they are way too strong, especially the trigger spring and the tappet spring.

[davedawg123]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm planning on purchasing these items from UNCo, since they have the majority of parts I'm looking for:

 

Systema Hop Up Bushing: Suitable For All AEGs

- "Bushing" is Engrish for bucking I'm guessing? And I noticed, this doesn't include the nub but includes a ring for which I don't know the purpose.

 

or

 

Guarder Hop Bucking

 

Not sure about the air seal nozzle, since it appears UNCo does not carry Guarder M4 air seal nozzles. Are any others recommended beside the Systema and Guarder?

 

Systema Shims Set For All AEG

 

Systema Spring Set Suitable For Gearbox Version 2 & 3

- I've only worked on version 1 and 7 gearboxes, does this set include the spring replacements you were mentioning? It appears the trigger and A-R springs are included, not sure if that other peice is the tappet spring.

 

Also, for the CQBR, do the spring guide and piston heads come with bearings? I'll probably skip out on these parts since I'm not looking for a main spring replacement, but I thought I'd ask anyway since I'm on the topic of parts replacements. I've read that G&P air seals are "perfect", so should I stick with a G&P Polyamide Explosive Piston Head With Bearing, and a Guarder Spring Guide Suitable For:Gearbox Version 2 (which doesn't mention it comes with bearings but it looks like it does in the picture)?

[ronburgundy__]

The spring guide has bearings, not sure about the piston head tho. And which h-nub are you using, black or white?