Gaurder Blowback steel bolt carrier - AK 47

[the cleaner]

out of curiosity too Sale,

 

if you truly think it's blowback AND the little hole on the part is to be attached to the piston. .

 

here's something to think about. . .

 

1) the piston travels and is contained inside the cylinder

 

2) the spring is contained inside the piston

 

3) now suppose you machine a slot into the top of the mechbox. . you drill and tap a screw to the piston .. .now depending on where that hole on the part is positioned. . .if you have to drill and tap into the piston. .you also have to slot out the cylinder. . .this can cause air pressure leakage depending on where the hole is. .

 

4) let's say you drill and tap into the piston in the back behind the cylinder. . .then you have very little material that your screw goes into. . if you drill too deep you're into the spring. . .ever put a "load" onto a screw that is into a plastic part? Metal and plastic doesn't work very good. The blowback will fail drastically after 100 blowbacks. . if that.

 

You have force on the piston due to the spring. .you have the force onto the piston from the gears. .you have spring tension from the tappet plate/nozzle that all effects the piston movement. . and now you've added a "blowback" bolt movement to the piston.

 

What about a metal piston. .sure that will work better. . how many people will have to drill and tap their metal piston let alone machine a slot in the top of the mechbox. . few have that capability. The AK part then would not be targetted for mass market. .then why would Guarder say it's for Marui and Guarder AKs?

 

These are just a few things to think about when you're talking about having this new guarder part function as an actual blowback mechanism.

 

I think everyone is wishfully thinking and praying that this part is a functional blowback part. . I highly doubt it. So far, I've been proving it not too plausible. .sure it CAN be done by a select # of people with the knowledge and capabilities. .. just not likely.

[kronic]

Guarder are awful at English.

 

Ever seen their Stell AK74 kits with plastic wood?

 

And remember: With China folding Bayonet. Warning: please folding in fore-grip when movement!!

 

Also you can choose your rear sight to make your Type 56 FERFECT!

 

The bolt is just a steel cocking handle.

 

They've obvioulsy has alot of requests for Black cocking handles, as used on the AKM and AK74. So they've made one (but it's still not like the AK74/M) and then realised they could make it in silver.

 

More reason to believe that it's just a non-blow back bolt is because; A while back Guarder said they were going to start making parts for the Sig552. this included A cocking handle that makes a (and i quote) "CLACK" noise.

[the cleaner]

heh heh. ."Guarder IS aweful at English"

 

but definitely. .I recall the "Stell kits".

 

I agree with you Kronic. .again, it's all about translation.

 

With current mechbox designs, it is not possible to make a reliable AND realistic (full travel) blowback system. .if you want the blowback bolt to be slamming hard and loud. . .that force is translating back to your piston or wherever the bolt is attached to. . .not plausible with current mechboxes.

[PlasticMag]

I stand by my belief that it's a part of a recoil assembly. Notice the price being "ASK?" That's because, IMO, Guarder does the work for you.

 

I also want to point out that it is not uncommon AT ALL in Hong Kong and Taiwan (and even Japan) to modify the gearbox to create a 'recoil' effect.

 

If I can get my hands on this AK part and access to a machine shop, you better believe I'll modify my AK to have recoil.

 

Also note the position of the hole at the rear. Can you figure out where it lines up? If you don't have an AK, I'll educate you: it would line up over the piston area. Exactly over the piston area.

 

And now that I think about it, if you used this part there may no longer be a need for the battery tray, making the mechanism even easier to fabricate.

 

With current mechbox designs, it is not possible to make a reliable AND realistic (full travel) blowback system.  .if you want the blowback bolt to be slamming hard and loud. . .that force is translating back to your piston or wherever the bolt is attached to. . .not plausible with current mechboxes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It doesn't need to be realistic. It'd still be a helluva lot more recoil than an AEG currently has. Plus, if it's used with Guarder metal bodies, it'd produce a nice 'clank' as it hits anyways. It's VERY plausible to do - I could tell you how to do it with the AK family right now.

[Sale]

the cleaner: Funny you should mention... I actually edited out of my previous post a part where I said I'd rather call it a "half-blowback". Actually the travel is less than half compared to a real PSG-1. If you look at the promo picture by Guarder, the travel is about what you could get from such a mechanism - just like on the PSG-1.

 

I agree with you 100% that it wouldn't be impressive. I've got a Sun Project M16A1 Carbine and Youth Engineering MP5SD6 - both run the Escort mechanism. A PSG-1 style "half-blowback" doesn't provide any recoil, the sound is ridiculous and it doesn't even look cool. It's nonsense if you ask me, but it CAN be adapted to the AK and G36C for example.

I really don't know why they would come up with something like that, but I honestly think that's what it is. I don't own an airsoft AK so this isn't wishful thinking either.

 

The piston comes all the way out from the cylinder when the spring is compressed so no holes would be in the cylinder. I never even thought about making a solid connection between the piston, because it would slow the piston down when it's going forward, thus dropping muzzle velocity. All the problems you mentioned were solved on the PSG-1 and it's really simple. I bet you've seen one, so why are you questioning whether it would work on another AEG or not?

 

-Sale

[PlasticMag]

Honestly, it's not possible to make it a full blow-back.

[the cleaner]

you need to relax. .you're taking everything too personal

 

I CAN easily do the mod. . .that's not my problem. . .can the majority of people do it? not likely. . is Guarder aiming at the slight % who can do the mod? not likely. . is everyone who buys the part suppose to send their gun to Guarder to get this special service?

 

I've been in airsoft since 96 and first heard of it in 88. I think I am informed well enough of what mods go on in HK and Japan.

 

again, the whole thread is NOT about if it's plausible to do (the mod). .it's if it's plausible that the Guarder part is INDEED meant to blowback or if it's purely cosmetic.

 

you don't seem to understand the reasoning. . who cares if you or I can do the mod. . .what is Guarder's intention if it truly is a blowback mechanism .. how is it going to work. . .can any Joe Schmoe buy the part or is it something that requires custom work. . .almost NOBODY in the airsoft industry designs a part only to make you have to do MORE modification to it. . .and I'm not talking about tuning metal bodies to fit better. .

[the cleaner]

Sale,

 

"The piston comes all the way out from the cylinder when the spring is compressed so no holes would be in the cylinder. I never even thought about making a solid connection between the piston, because it would slow the piston down when it's going forward, thus dropping muzzle velocity. All the problems you mentioned were solved on the PSG-1 and it's really simple. I bet you've seen one, so why are you questioning whether it would work on another AEG or not?"

 

EDIT: if someone was to attach this Guarder part to the piston. . .when the piston is inside the cylinder (spring not compressed), about 1/2 inch of the rear of the piston is protruding. This area is the ONLY area that you can attach this Guarder part without having to modify the cylinder. Attaching the Guarder part any further up the piston requires you to slot out the cylinder so that the pin (attached to the Guarder bolt) has a place to move as the piston moves. Slotting the cylinder out will make you lose pressure drastically.

 

I'm not questioning whether the PSG-1 mech will work with others . .Obviously it works with the PSG-1 and some others.

 

I'm talking about the Guarder AK part and how it is being incorporated with ver III mechboxes. .if that is indeed how it will be accomplished.

 

Again, it makes no sense why someone would manufacture an airsoft part that requires the end user to have customize their gun to make the small part work in their gun. Senseless. . .

 

If the part is design right for the airsoft market...the part will be a simple bolt-on procedure. .a little filing if that. . .but to have this part fully functioning as a blowback and operating bolt? it's not even a kit .. it's a single part. .no spring, no pin, no screws. . just a single part. Where's the reasoning?

[PlasticMag]

Wow... I never took it personally. I still believe I'm right, but I'm not gonna kill you or *beep* like that for saying you don't think I'm right.

 

Guarder is notorious for making kits for the AK family. Would that not remotely suggest that the AK part is also a 'kit' in a sense that some work is required?

 

I still think it's a piece to go with custom work performed by Guarder or a custom shop, NOT the end user. Thus, to me at least, it's 100% plausible that the part is made to blow back.

 

Don't take it personally - it's only words on the internet, a collection of binary data made into pixels. Not worth having a major argument over. I'm just presenting my view for debate.

[Sale]

the cleaner: Now I agree with you, but did I ever say it would be a drop-in part? No.

 

Making the slot doesn't require a milling machine. I made it with a hand drill, a file and some elbow grease. It's not something *anyone* can do, but I think you make it sound harder than it is.

 

The Right GT-97 folding stock for AR-15's requires that the receiver extension is sawed off, and a hole is drilled on the plate between the stock and receiver. That's the hardest installation of a custom part I could think of right now, and it's a piece of cake really. This leads to another point: I also can't figure why on earth would they produce a part like this. I said it before didn't I? Yet again we agreed on something.

 

The only disagreement we have here is that I (still) think they designed the part so that it could make a little blowback effect when pulled back by the piston. As neither of us work for Guarder or have seen the part (or instructions that it might come with), it's pointless to speculate whether it's a blowback part or just a cosmetic add-on.

 

Who knows, it might be both? Like a static piece you can put on your gun and add the blowback if you have the skills?

 

-Sale

[the cleaner]

Sale,

 

"The only disagreement we have here is that I (still) think they designed the part so that it could make a little blowback effect when pulled back by the piston."

 

and in order to accomplish that. .the Guarder part MUST be attached to the REAR of the piston (for the easiest mod to take place, which is mainly cutting a slot out of the mechbox).

[Sale]

Sale,

 

"The only disagreement we have here is that I (still) think they designed the part so that it could make a little blowback effect when pulled back by the piston."

 

and in order to accomplish that. .the Guarder part MUST be attached to the REAR of the piston (for the easiest mod to take place, which is mainly cutting a slot out of the mechbox).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope. It just needs to get into the piston's way, not attach to it. Of course it needs the slot on the box. What's your point? That it's harder than the usual mods? I already know that.

 

Cutting stuff out of the gun to make custom parts fit is nothing new. Want another example besides the GT-97? Systema Metal chamber set. To install it, one must cut the receiver. Instructions come with the part.

 

-Sale

[Tinkerton]

can we PLEASE stop arguing?

 

i started this thread to gain more info, not some hateful flame war.

 

YOUR NOT HELPING ANYBODY!

[Marlowe]

Precisely. I was going to say the same last night, but was had already narrowly avoided WW3 in the Knives thread, and so thought better of it.

 

Now that I'm awake though:

 

Please stop arguing. There is little to be gained in debating whether or whether not the Guarder slide will in fact support a blowback action, or how to modify the gearbox to achieve it, when we have heard nothing more from Guarder.

 

Surely your combined techinical expertise could be better spent on working in co-ordination to devise a possible blow-back system, and if that's not possible, surely it would at least be somewhat less futile to see what Guarder say about the bolt carrier (if it ever makes it to retail and it wasn't some random comic jape) before going for each other's throats on the issue?

 

Just my tuppence anyway. The possibily certainly is appealing.

[kronic]

I really can see Gurader taking in peoples AEGs from all over the world, modding them and posting them back.

 

They're not THAT big of a company.

[the cleaner]

I'm not arguing with anyone. .I'm just stating some facts based on some small assumptions about the Guarder part.

 

If anyone is feeling targeted and harrassed, it's due to their own lack of control.

 

hey Sale, again, I'm not arguing with you. .

 

"Nope. It just needs to get into the piston's way, not attach to it. Of course it needs the slot on the box. What's your point? That it's harder than the usual mods? I already know that."

 

It's not that it's harder for the avg joe. . .that it is so unlikely that Guarder will make the user chop into the mechbox, especially if it's removing the part that partially holds the mechbox together.

 

Remember, there are screws along the top of the mechbox. If you cut a slot along the top(which means removing and no longer using 2 whole screws), you may affect the structural rigidity of the mechbox as well as the amount of clamping force needed to hold the mechbox together (from the tension of the spring).

 

Again, my postings are ALL ABOUT whether or not Guarder's INTENT is to have the USER do the mods especially if it requires the user to hack into the mechbox.

 

In the history of airsoft mass manufactured parts, when has a manufacturing company offered service to install their parts by sending your gun to them?

 

Killer Studios usually build the gun you want from scratch. You don't provide them with anything but money..same as Sheriff. . .

 

I'm not saying Guarder won't offer the service, but it is highly unlikely. I can see retail shops in HK or the US offering the service. . .but not the manufacturer.

 

Saying "I think they will" is not a reasonable answer as it's only your opinion that's not based on any facts in the past or present times.

[kronic]

Arg, typo in my last post was sposed to say "can't"

 

the cleaner; the AK mech box hasn't go screws along the top, but it does have a sliding plate to keep the box together.

[the cleaner]

Kronic. .you're right(pretty much the same as the Mp5k). . thanks for correcting me.

 

My Ak was upgraded 5 years ago. . used in every skirmish since then .. .running 12V 4000mAh external pack through it. . still have YET to open it. So the only time I check out the mechbox is if I'm working on someone elses AK. . .

[Sale]

You still didn't comment on another theory I came up with: What if it's a cosmetic static piece (movable by hand of course), but as an add-on feature can be modified to provide blowback?

 

Yeah they definitely won't take your gun in and modify it.

 

-Sale

[the cleaner]

You still didn't comment on another theory I came up with: What if it's a cosmetic static piece (movable by hand of course), but as an add-on feature can be modified to provide blowback?

 

 

totally. . .that was my first impression of the part was that it's static(manually pull back and let go via spring)and purely cosmetic. . .The way I see airsoft parts. .they may be designed with intent to do one function, but I always can make it do something else. So yes. .that would be great if Guarder is actually is thinking of two possible functions. . .

 

On a very realistic note, I can see Guarder producing TWO different parts. .one that is static. .one that is attached for blowback . .airsoft manufacturers are always out to make more money off the consumer. . look at the # of AK kits Guarder released(which all use basically the same parts). . .and heck. . .off subject. . see what a genius George Lucas was in releasing different sets/editions of the Star Wars trilogy. . people will buy it no matter what. .and he knows it. Same goes with airsoft parts IMO.

[Tripod]

Kronic. .you're right(pretty much the same as the Mp5k). . thanks for correcting me.

 

My Ak was upgraded 5 years ago. . used in every skirmish since then .. .running 12V 4000mAh external pack through it. . still have YET to open it. So the only time I check out the mechbox is if I'm working on someone elses AK. . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well just know that all V3 and V6 gearboxes are designed without the screws along the top. This includes the MP5K, AK47, SIG 552, G36c, P90, and M1A1 Thompson.

[thegunrunner]

I'm just going to ask one of my friends in Taipei who owns an airsoft shop right under Guarder's office about this. If he doesn't know, he can find out in a few minutes, and if the Guarder office doesn't know, then I don't know what to say.

 

I'm interested in this part for my future AKm too.

 

Stay tuned.

[kronic]

Shall i eat my own words, or can someone feed them to me?

 

 

http://www.ukasc.net/news.php

 

Check that out!

 

By the looks of it.

 

That L shaped piece if metal attached to the piston, and is then attached to the bolt via the C-clip.

 

Obvioulsy you're going to have to cut a slot in the top of the mech box though.

 

ARg i'm ###### off tha i cant fit it onto my AKS74M though.... i my get a real folding stock Y try to rig a battery up though.

[Tripod]

I really hope this is for real. If it blows back on its own, I'm gonna be quite a happy camper. Probably won't work with the ICS AK74M though.

[kronic]

It might do.

 

infact, the ICS AK has a replica recoil spring on it, so i';m not sure.... and the split gear box design may cause problems.

 

 

Just thinking though, taking your gun apart is gunna suck now, you'll need alot of C-clips.

 

I may buy the bolt & cut the life out of it and use it as a non-blow back one, like the TM bolt.... providing it looks like the black bolt in the promo animation.