tishina

[fr00b]

here's link to original topic

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/inde...showtopic=66982

 

as discussed there, it just doesnt exist in airsoft

 

 

any ideas on how to build/ attach this tishina

 

it is alot smaller than a m203 so i cant really expect anywhere near the same firepower, but if you have an idea that gives it slightly more impact than a sidearm let us know

 

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as03-e.htm

thats a link to more info and a slightly better picture of the launcher

 

if you can get me an even better picture that would be great cos i cant get the external detail on the barrel from these pictures alone

[Lord Blackgoat]

A mini moscart could fit in there... The CAW mini moscart pistol launcher would make a correct base for this.

For the complete effect, you'll have to find/make the GL sight as seen in the pic on the World Guns site.

Nice project BTW, the VFC AKSU is very sexy, and that mod makes it even sexier...

[fr00b]

i didnt even think about the GL sight! thanks, i like attention to detail.

 

silly me i said it was a 20mm grenade launcher, even that link i posted contradicts that

 

thanks for the info on the mini moscarts, im looking into it right away

 

edit:

 

 

is that the launcher you mean? looks about the right size, wouldnt be too hard to attach to a foregrip... thing is, how the ###### does it work? wheres the trigger

i know this reveals me to be a total noob, but i have no idea

 

i would prefer it to have a trigger similar to a tishina, although a dummy one wouldnt be too tragic

 

another edit: sorry didnt see catmans post, ignore ignore

[Catman]

i didnt even think about the GL sight! thanks, i like attention to detail.

 

silly me i said it was a 20mm grenade launcher, even that link i posted contradicts that 

 

thanks for the info on the mini moscarts, im looking into it right away

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm doing a side-project which involves the mini-moscarts, I've got two of the 36round grenades - they're 27mm. My only major issue right now is finding the right sided piping - 32mm PVC pipe from B&Q just about holds the grenade (by the rim) without letting it fall out but it.

 

Links to the two types of mini-moscarts:

http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?i...27MM36_srch_PEQ

http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?i...27MM18_srch_PEQ

 

The only issue with that greande launcher is that the greandes are muzzle loaded, the mini-moscarts would have to be breach loaded due to their rims.

[fr00b]

hmmm now i think about it, im not really sure how a tishina is loaded, probably like you said, muzzle loaded, because thats how the other russian GLs are loaded aint it? gp30 type thing...

 

time to play some americas army and see if it gives a clue to loading them... the interweb is fairly empty of tishina related material, and obtaining a tishina in americas army without getting shot to bits is kinda tricky if ur as bad as me..

 

if anybody has an idea on the grenade launcher sights, whether they are compatible with a scope etc...

 

edit

just my luck, my americas army appears to be broken.. suffers critical error every single time

[Catman]

Description

The BS-1 30 mm silenced grenade launcher has appeared under the designation RGA-86 in Russian literature, but it appears that BS-1 is more widely accepted in Russia. Regardless of designation, the Russians have developed an innovative silenced grenade launcher for use by special operations forces.

The BS-1 is always seen mounted on a suppressed version of the 5.45 mm AKS-74U short assault rifle differentiated from the standard AKS-74U by a leather flap that fits on the forestock of the weapon and covers the BS-1 mount when the launcher is not installed; the designation AKS-74UB has been used for this rifle. A silenced grenade launcher is of great utility in a close combat situation as it not only reduces sound, but also reduces flash and smoke.

BS-1 launch cartridges are magazine fed using a bolt action and utilise a special star crimped cartridge. The grenade is muzzle loaded, as with other RFAS underbarrel grenade launchers, but there the similarity ends. Although there has been no explanatory literature as to the functioning of the BS-1, certain aspects of its operation can be deduced. The BS-1 launcher has a large containment chamber behind the barrel with a piston that launches the VOG-T HEAT grenade. The expanding gases of the launch cartridge propel the piston rapidly forward, pushing the grenade from the launcher muzzle. The piston obturates against a shoulder inside the containment chamber and, after the grenade is launched, the gases bleed off quickly enough to allow for a relatively rapid follow-up shot.

 

Specifications

 

Calibre: 30 mm

Operation: manual, muzzle loaded; launch cartridges fed from detachable box magazine

Weight: ca 1.5 kg

Length: ca 320 m

Effective range: ca 100 m

Armour penetration: ca 125 mm RHA

Manufacturer: Russian state factories.

Status: In production.

 

Text Information from Janes Infantry Weapons

 

Source: http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galle...s/2000/2016.htm

 

 

 

BTW fr00b; that launcher you pictured is the Mosquito Mini launcher but it's for 40mm grenades. There are technically 3 triggers on the unit. Theres a bar across the top near the Rails, this can be pushed from the left or right. Theres a push-in trigger at the back of launcher.

 

The 27mm grenades are for this thing: http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?i...CF0210_srch_PEQ

 

 

edit: got the name of the launcher wrong

[fr00b]

yeah i've seen that launcher in ur link before, and it confused me tbh..

 

fixed americas army, got my hands on a tishina: didnt appear to have a sight, didnt have enough grenades to reload big help that was:

thanks catman for clearing up how it is loaded

 

anywho! things that confuse me about above launcher in link, its got two holes, it looks too big to make a tishina out of but i could work around that, and once again trigger..

 

there are a couple of pistol shaped grenade launchers around, wouldnt be too hard to build a wooden handle aroun the pistol grip im thinking, sadly they are 40mm aswell

 

perhaps a shotgun shell type "grenade launcher"... how big is the mechanism that fires those shells?

 

or, compromising even more, a nbb mocked up to look like a tishina.. not too keen on that idea

 

im still not sure ive found the exact model of launcher that lord blackgoat described could anybody shed some light...

 

at the moment im concentrating on finding a small mechanism! however, if you have ideas on making barrel and grip, this is also welcome

 

and if ur any good at americas army, and have a bit of spare time, id be grateful for any research on the tishina from that source.

 

and yes i know, ive put up far too many pictures from in-game, i promise thats the last one

[Lord Blackgoat]

Guns And Guys click "Gas operated rifles, shotguns, SMGs" then CAW. The one I was talking about was the fourth, Mini Moscart Pistol Launcher, fires mini moscarts, has a genuine trigger, and could be modded quite easily. The system is breach opening loaded, so quite well suited for an AK (I'd attach it from the barrel and flip the handle down and slide the gun forward to load it)

 

For the GL sight : look at the attachement. It looks like it can't be used in conjunction with an optical sight though.

[fr00b]

'whaaaa???? it costs 1,200 dollars!!!' <-- what i first thought when looking at site, now i see this is in HK dollars...

 

so its about 85 quid, nice one blackgoat

 

it looks pretty much ideal! a breach loading tishina.. it might not be absolutely genuine action-wise, but it will look the part and be easier to load (i hope)

 

edit:

for all those who cba to trawl through guns and guys, heres a piccy:

 

 

attach a nice long barrel, lathed to look nice n genuine perhaps, add a wooden grip over the original...

 

what should i use to carve it, a set of sharp chisels or what?.. i dont even know what kinda wood... could ask candyman (check out his homemade sniper rifle )

[fr00b]

turns out he uses walnut, as do most guns

 

ive thought about ways of attaching it.. blackgoat ur idea is good, any other ideas are welcome, as im thinking attaching it solidly while still allowing for the moscarts to be loaded might be tricky

 

for maximum realism, we look to the real steel item and it seems to be attached by bolting into the wooden foregrip (when not attached it looks like the hole is covered by a bit of leather) and also attaching somehow underneath the front sight, which appears to be also modified(?)

 

any ideas on how to attach

 

EDIT:

of course, with a barrel that needs to be broken open,and a hammer that presumable needs to be cocked to open the barrel, it wont be possible to attach this in the same way as the real steel

 

the attachment at the front could potentially be mimicked without actually bolting the pieces together... hmm

[Lord Blackgoat]

What you think is a hammer looks more like a catch to open the breach to me...

 

As you'll probably have to move it forward to load it, a railed attachement of some sort (so that can slide for loading or be locked rest of the time) would be the best IMO.

Or the pivot option : bolted in one point under the handguard, it could flip to one side for loading (abit like an AG36), then flip back and be locked into firing position.

 

For the look mods, you'll have to cut the trigger housing and recut the grip, then slip a custom, more tishina-shapped, one. The longer barrel shouldn't be a problem. Oh, and the grip isn't wood, but bakelite.

[fr00b]

bakelite hmm that makes sense, i heard the magazine for the realsteel is covered in bakelite too?... still it would be alot easier to make a wood one wouldnt it... unless i somehow get a deac tishina and just graft the real steel parts on.. is that legal?

 

meh dont even answer that i dont even know if its possible to get a deac tishina

 

its guna be a real chore to get a realistic airsoft tishina but im determined to have it!

 

and yes i thought the "hammer" might be a catch to open it but i thought i would call it a hammer anyway... it doesnt matter as i still have to access it either way

 

thanks for all the info blackgoat ill post pics for ya when its complete

[fr00b]

 

some initial drawings.. it isnt looking too hot right now, the grip is totally off the scale but as stated its just initial drawings.

 

-dont know how to make a solid pivoting joint

 

-not entirely sure how to extend barrel

 

-any opinions on how it looks also welcome

 

ps i put fake AND dummy, because not only is the magazine fake, but it doesnt move either.. err.. yeah i dont really know why i put fake and dummy

[fr00b]

 

an update, for anyone who's interested, detailing a simple mechanism to do with the hammer

 

if you see any fatal flaws do tell me, this is still only in the very earliest planning stages

 

i better get a move on buying the gun and mini moscart launcher though.. stoopid vcr bill

 

edit: would a 18 round mini moscart be better than 36?.. i was thinking this, as an extended barrel might not handle 36 bbs at once very well..

[ferretkiller]

Those shells are definatly going to be your best bet. However i belive that you are kind of going about the launcher the wrong way. If you want an authentic looking launcher. It may be best to design one from scratch around those shells. From what i have seen about setting off the shell it should not be too hard to make a trigger for it. Then mold around the barrel and trigger mech with some modeling foam. You can snad it down to the proper shape and dimensions. Then cover with fiberglass. Sand and paint. From some other projects i have worked with the Carbody fiber patches and epoxy should do it.

 

 

Granted this will take a lot longer and may end up being pretty chalenging but i think that you could end up with a nice launcher after it is all said and done.

[Dusk]

how tishinas are loaded:

 

Drop grenade down barrel, rack miniature bolt on right side of gun, fire and repeat.

 

I am thinking just get mini moscarts and make a new frame around them.

 

question: Can you muzzle load those grenades?

[fr00b]

thanks for detailed loading info!

 

id say that mini moscarts probably couldnt be muzzle loaded reliably due to rim, but i might be wrong.. after all thats not the only design of mini moscart launcher.. more info would be welcome

 

ferretkiller's idea sounds much better in terms of realism than mine, my own plan certainly annoyed me with the innacuracies in detail of using a ready made launcher...

and making a metal body was never going to be easy.. plus fibreglass might give a very much improved bakelite feel to the grip.

 

it has been taken into consideration, thanks very much

 

-more info on exactly how mini moscarts are fired, can't seem to find info on this

 

-anybody experienced with the method of modelling suggested by ferretkiller, lend me some advice

 

-muzzle loading mini moscarts, am i right in thinking the rim prohibits this?

 

-as always opinions welcome

[ferretkiller]

Ive got a broken, larger marscart shell. From what i can tell you should be able to grind down the lip so that it will slide down the barrel. I just thought of this though. If you slide it in from the front you will have to have some kind of catch to keep it in to press te firing pin on the back. If you grind the lip off enough to get it to slide in the barrel you should still have enough of a groove left to place a catch to hold it in.

 

 

I know that this is the way the Madbull grenades are fired and i think that it is the same for the moscart ones as well. On the back end of the shall there is a circle in the middle that actually pushes in. When the grenade is charged and loaded all you have to do to fire it is push that in. So a simple lever from the trigger to push that in should do the trick.

 

 

Like i said the one that i have is broken. I took it off a guy in the hopes of figuring out something to do with it, in true packrat style. It is larger in diameter than the ones you would use but if you want it to play around with and are willing to pay for the shipping ill ship it to ya.

 

 

And to answer a previous question. I think that you would be fine using either the 36 or 18 round shell.

[fr00b]

hmph.. well this is my latest idea and as you can see it isnt great, might require some precision measurements and plain old luck to work smoothly...

 

 

this is just an update to show how much my ideas suck, so any help would be lovely.

 

how do the real mini moscart launchers work!!? that one with two holes in it still confuses hell out of me, and im too much of an irritable lazy ###### to find out about it myself... if you know of a mini moscart launcher which has a muzzle loading design and have a idea of how it works..

 

for example how the moscart is held steady in the barrel

 

i think im guna have to grind off the rim as has been suggested. but then how does it even stay in the barrel... this is how i came to my friction system illustrated above, but ill think you'll agree, it is a bit rubbishy.

 

the moscart would have to be really heavy to drop firmly into the friction system smoothly wouldnt it? thats why i thought of foam.. less resistance

 

either that or the firing mechanism would have to have very low resistance to being pushed in

 

just how much resistance does that button have? am i looking at a strong trigger pull?

 

seriously, never touched a mini moscart, or launcher, no information is too basic, looking at the little pictures hasnt given me too many clues.. im going to go search arnies data base for info on them, post me some info in the meantime

 

edit: found out some more info on the two holed launcher thing, doesnt confuse me as much anymore but confirms my fear that a muzzle loading mini moscart doesnt exist ill think of a new design, perhaps muzzle loading is too ambitious

[ferretkiller]

 

I looked a little closer at the mini shells and it looks like they do not have the same groove that is on the larger ones. So grinding it down my pose a problem. However if you can allow a minor inconsistancy, you can use something like in my pic. Sorry for the bad graphics, but i dont have anything other than MS Paint.

 

In the pic on to is the shell. The black ring is electrical tape wrapped around the shell large enough to keep it steady in the tube, yet loose enough for the shell to move freely in the launcher. The second tube is the launcher. You can see a catch like a mag catch. The way i see it you can have it lock onto the lip at the rear of the shell. This will allow you to press as hard as you need to fire it then you can press the catch and let the shell fall out the barrel.

 

 

I am not sure how much force is needed to fire the shells but i have some people on my state AS site that have had them that i can ask.

 

 

oh yeah the image is not nearly to scale.

 

 

Edit again ---- i think that your firing mech would work.

[fr00b]

a mag catch, sheesh i know ive been up too late when im thinking cruddy ideas like friction, a mag catch is a great idea! im sure that minor inconsistencies can be largely ironed out with a lightly padded chamber (or tape around the moscart as suggested), and a wider mag-catch device to hold it steadier... perhaps..

 

dont know why i didnt think of it.. you must simply be cleverer than me

 

if you do end up asking what kind of force the moscart needs to be triggered, that would certainly be handy in designing thanks, although its not like i need a force measurement in newtons, just whether a hard push is required, i dont want the catch to give out before there is enough force to trigger it..

 

edit: ms paint > all

[ferretkiller]

dont know why i didnt think of it.. you must simply be cleverer than me

 

 

That is not it at all. It is just training. With all of the Engineering classes i had in college you tend to think that way. In one class we had to design and build a Burrito folding machine.

 

As for the catch, as long as the side in contact with the lip of the shell is flat against the shell lip you should be fine. the problem will be if it is angled so that it can apply a vertical force on the catch

 

 

Hope this pic helps. The green circles are good, Red bad. The first one would be optimal.

 

[fr00b]

okay! another MS paint piccy to confuse your minds and lower your IQs

 

 

it details my first thought on making a "grenade catch"

 

i was thinking: have a small flat area on the underside of the lathed barrel, and using the magic of soldering, attach this device on a hinge... with a spring to keep it in the locked position.

 

however... is soldering really useful for this kind of system, that will be used frequently, moving back and forth repeatedly.. soldering isnt really meant for that is it? i had the notion that it was just for wires...

 

so basically im asking for a stronger, more robust design, as this was the best i could come up with today

 

-any ideas on improving/strengthening it would be great

 

-any ideas that are totally different to this also welcome

 

- fibreglass carbody patches.. i found the modelling foam, that sounds good, but i didnt yet find car-body fibre patches which were suggested earlier, a little more info on exactly what they are and how they can be applied to the tishina.. is it some sort of plasticky material that i can fold around the foam.. or plate onto it.. or what? i did google it but it seemed to think i wanted a whole car body made from carbon fibre

 

[ferretkiller]

That catch looks good. A possible way to connect it to the barrel would be to use Epoxy. That stuff dries pretty hard.

 

I will look a little for those patches later on tonight.

[ferretkiller]

OK I have looked a little and i cannot seem to find the auto body patches that i once used with my father to repair car body damage.

 

I decided to us a more conventional method. I googled both "Fiberglass Cloth" and "Fiberglass Resin" independently. It looks like you can actually get this stuff fairly cheap. Here are some of my results. You can google those terms to find some more. I would go with a cloth that has fine holes in it or the chopped strand mat. And you are going to want an Epoxy that can be sanded and filed.

 

Hope this helps.

 

http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/StoreFront

 

http://www.shopmaninc.com/mat.html

 

 

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/fib499.html