VSR hop for Tanaka M700 series

[tome]

Actually i agree. But really with a set of needle files and something to clamp the piece down you should be able to do a very good job of it. My concern is has the same effect but comes from the fact that the actuator peice is not held solidly in place. It is just inside a channel, being pushed down by the hop screw. There is a slight bit of room for the actuator to move left and right, so even if the filing is perfect you might still get consistency problems.

 

As the original actuator is flat it doesn't matter if it moves left and right by fractions of a millimeter, but a shaped actuator might give sufficiently differnent spin from the small displacement. Who know though, maybe i'll try it. I have some spare aluminium around, so if there's a peice that's thin enough i'll cut an actuator to play with

[tome]

I measured the inner barrel length needed for the G&G short barrel for the benefit of scithe and any others wishing to use it An inner barrel length of 515mm will recess the inner muzzle about 1-2mm into the outer barrel's muzzle.

 

Also, just tried the Pax hop with Laylax 555mm barrel, WE Hicapa rubber, Pax endcap and stock barrel on my AICS, shooting KSC Perfect .

 

30. 10 shot groups at 7 meters are 30mm and below including flyers. Occasionally (1 in 50 shots) there will be a flyer that makes the group 45mm but that could well be the ammo.

 

This is quite shocking as it means that the WE rubber outperforms the KM RH55 rubber!! My hunch is that the pax unit doesn't like the shaped cutout in the KM rubber. Let's see if Pedrosala's results back that up

[scithe]

sweet, thanks tome

 

also, what is the length from the two indentations where the silencer mounts to the end of the silencer?

 

the only qd silencers i can find that will mount on it are either the m4 one which is 175mm long, or the sr-25 silencer. i would preffer to use the m4 one to give the rifle the shortest overall length possible, but i dont know if the silencer will protrude enough from the outer barrel to effectively supress the rifle.

[tunabreath]

Hehe, I was originally going to get the KM rubber, but after your PMs, I'd pretty much given up on the VSR hop.

Back on the boat! I'm also curious as to the silencer. After handling the full length M40A1, I don't think I could stand to have it LONGER than it is, after getting the short outer barrel...

[tome]

From the indents to the tip it's 147mm. I don't know if the M4 length one would do enough really. At the moment my VSR inner barrel sticks out about 37 mm and there is a noticable difference in the amount of noise absorbed compared to my Tanaka cut down barrel which is flush with the outer barrel muzzle.

 

With my G&P SR-25 silencer attached it's an inch or two longer than the stock AICS barrel (i didn't measure it exactly). It is quite long but doesn' feel longer than normal when outside. If i'm going to be indoors for an extended period with teammates that have AEGs (like some of the games at UA) i take the silencer off and the difference is enough to make it much easier to move window to window (room to room hehe).

[scithe]

hmmmm.... well that leaves just over an inch of suppressor which may or may not be enough to fully suppress the rifle.

 

it sucks there isnt a silencer about 250mm long that would fit on this barrel :/

 

thanks again for the help tome

[pedrosalas7]

well tome i'll have to see but i still haven' recieved my stuff yet, i'm hoping that by the end of the week i'll have it but with what's happening here right now that may not be possible.

 

anyway, as soon as i have results i'll post them, but i don't think that yours and mine will be comparable as i'm going to be using a Deescustoms 6.01 650mm tightbore.

[tome]

See if you can get hold of a stock TM rubber and compare it to the RH55

[tunabreath]

Hey scithe, I had an idea. Would cutting back the foam towards the rear to a wider inner diameter than about 3/4 of an inch at the front direct more gas into the free space in the back? Some kind of stepped form dampening foam, to help direct the gas. I was under the impression that this is how real 'over the barrel' suppressors worked, except with scooped baffles to pull more gas rearward.

 

Another idea, back to my original integrated suppressor plan. If you got a 430mm inner barrel, that leaves almost 10cm of free outer barrel at the end, which you could line with felt to act as a sort of expansion chamber before you hit the inch of foam 'baffles' from the suppressor. That should reduce the pressure so that the foam can manage to slow the gas to quieter levels, no?

The one thing I'm concerned about is securing the inner barrel without using an outer barrel end cap. Would a tape wrap be secure/stable enough that it wouldn't adversely affect accuracy? Also, cosmetically, if you take off the suppressor, the barrel will look more like a wide bore shotgun than a sniper rifle.

Another option if you don't plan on removing the suppressor is to port the barrel where it's covered by the suppressor, so that gas can get to the unused portions. If you do want to remove the suppressor, you COULD cut them to look like a muzzle brake. I'd be worried about inconsistency due to the gas swirling around in there though.

[scithe]

well i actually planned on removing the foam from the front end entirely. your idea is actually pretty good, but foam is not the best. what i would recommend (and i have done something similar for my g-spec) is to get some form of flat disk that you can put into the suppressor and then find the perfect center and drill a 7mm hole into it. then glue cotton onto the rest of the disk. then you can take some thick construction paper, and role that into a tube. make two of these, and place one on each end of the baffle to keep it in place. you can also glue cotton to those to absorb the sound better.

 

these baffles will give the bb just enough room to get through, but without allowing too much gas through. the thing though, is that it will only have room for one baffle which will be pretty close to the muzzle, so i dont know if the gas will expand fast enough, or if it will escape along with the bb.

 

as for the second idea, i had thought about using the outer barrel as an expansion chamber aswell, but then it decreases the realism. more importantly though, the outer barrel is too thin, so the gas that begins to travel between the bb and this expansion chamber may effect the accuracy.

 

porting the barrel may be your best move.... its actually a really good idea, and there are sniper rifles with ported barrels at the tip, so it does not take away from the realism. i would not worry about this effecting accuracy either. i used to have a pss-300 which has a muzzle break, and i tried attaching a silencer to it. the accuracy was not effected at all, but i cannot vouch for if it made it quieter or not as i never finished it before i sold it.

[tunabreath]

Another question, what's the difference between the Prometheus 6.03 430mm VSR barrel and the 433mm for VSR and Type 89, with PSS-10 Air Seal Chamber, besides the length.

Is the air seal chamber they're talking about an included hopup bucking? Why is the longer Type 89 one a few dollars cheaper than the 430mm, which doesn't have this air seal chamber?

[scithe]

as far as i can tell the only difference is how the chamber is cut out. as far as price, who knows

 

why not just get a deescustom .01 though? you can get it in an length you want, and it will up your fps and accuracy.

[pedrosalas7]

i just got the word that i'll be getting my parts on the weekend or next week... i'll try to get hold of a stock tm rubber or a WE high capa but that seems unlikely...

[tunabreath]

I figure I may as well get everything in one place (UNCo seems to be the only place that I can find the short outer barrel in stock).

 

I just had a brutally simple idea; I'm surprised it wasn't the first thing I thought of. Why not just cut down the outer barrel even shorter? I don't think the inner diameter increases enough that you couldn't use the end cap anymore, and it'll give you both more effective silencer space, as well as a shorter overall rifle with the silencer off.

I can see the aesthetic downside, but seeing how short the rifle is getting already, another 10cm can't hurt.

 

*how do you order from dee's custom anyways? I can't find a ordering page. Is it just through email?

[scithe]

yes, im pretty sure it is just by email for deescustom.

 

as for the barrel, it is a good idea, and could work with the g&g barrels as they are solid all the way through, but as you said, it is a serious problem aesthetically if you plan on removing the silencer. another problem is that the barrel could also get dirty and jammed up pretty easily as it will not be protected by the muzzle.

[tome]

Regarding holding the inner in place in the outer barrel. It doesn't seem to need it since at the moment i have a Laylax 555mm in there without any packing at the muzzle and it seems to be doing fine. It's pretty tight fit so the movement is minimal.

 

What i did notice though on my AICS barrel inner is that there are two tiny orings at the tip recessed into grooves. With these on they have an interference fit with the outer barrel. If you're going to get a custom barrel made, see if you can get these grooves put in

 

I'm not certain how the silencer attaches to the outer barrel, in that if you cut the outer down if might make the silencer wobbly? I don't really know though but you should find out before getting the saw out hehe.

[scithe]

ok, well i just put in an order to unco for the g&g short type barrel along with the pax unit. i still dont have the rifle itself yet though. i was planning on getting the rifle only after i move so that i wont have to worry about customs seizing it. however it turns out my teacher who used to work for israeli intelligence has a brother who used to work at israeeli airport security. so he is going to ask him about how safe it is to bring an airsoft gun through.

 

anyway, if it turns out that i can get the gun here and bring it with me, (aside from saving me $140 in taxes from ordering it there) i will be able to do the tests pretty soon. so far i am really liking tunabreaths idea about porting the outer barrel at the end. if done rite it could be very effective, and look da sh111t!

 

and thanks fr that bit of information tome. i will ask deescustom if they can cut grooves in the barrel

[tunabreath]

Hey, scithe, did you get the goods yet? I just had another idea, haha. Since there really isn't any mid length silencer, I wonder if the longer ones unscrew from their mounting clamp bit, like my TM Mk23 one does, or the ones with interchangeable threads do. If it does, you could get a too-long silencer, then unscrew it, cut it down to length, then either tap or just glue it back into its mount. I'm thinking this is what I'm going to do. I'll do some nifty vertical porting, then cut down the silencer so that it's a couple inches shorter than the stock length. That should be more than enough length to adequately silence the shots.

 

It will have to be extremely precise though. If the angle is wrong, then it could mount funny and end up with shots hitting the inside of the silencer.

[scithe]

nah, not yet. i put in the order for the outer barrel and hop unit a few days ago, and it just shipped.

 

i did not order the silencer yet though as i need more $ first. so far it looks like i will have to wait on getting the rifle itself till after i move, but there is a small chance that i can cut a deal with the guy who imports them which means that as soon as i sell my g-spec i can get it.

 

as for the silencer though, i would not recomend cutting it down for the specific reasons you stated. that would just be a waist of money. i was thinking about a theoretical design to suppress the rifle effectively with ony 1" of silencer. basically, it would use your porting idea to drill about 3mm holes in the top of the barrel spaced about 5mm apart, and angled inward toward the barrel. i will see if i can draw up the design later.

 

heres the diagram:

 

[scithe]

found a pottentially easier option for a silencer tuna

 

http://www.airsoft-war4.com/photos/200603077529.jpg

 

294X35mm, so its almost an inch and a half shorter than the g&g one.

[tunabreath]

Ooh, nice diagram, looks like it should work out quite well.

 

This silencer:

http://www.uncompany.com/pageproductdetails.asp?prodid=9198

looks identical besides the markings, I'll probably get it instead since it's $20 cheaper (I'm really digging myself a nice money grave right now... gotta lay off of the spending for a while).

[scithe]

haha, ya. same here... i planned out how much i would have tospend on the project before i started, but somehow i've started to go over my budget

 

do you know how long the ca silencer is though?

 

after some looking: its 304mm

[8zero8]

Thanks to Bushman.

 

He posted a video using the 2roy hop conversions I provided for he and the team. Please check it out and feel free to ask either of us any questions regarding the hop conversion. Also, leave props for the effort he and his team put in to research and reviews.

 

Link to Bushman's thread

 

 

[May contain nuts]

Hello guys - I just found this thread and have just finished reading it. Some great info and ideas in here!

 

Just to let you know I am getting some 14mm negative thread silencer adapters made by a local engineering company to replace both the standard AICS barrel end plug and the King Arms AICS VSR conversion kit end plug. There is a thread up in the Sniping Haven about it. No prices yet however I should have some sort of quotation for a run of 5 of each soon.

 

Aside from that I have a PDI 6.01mm tightbore sitting in my kitchen right now and I am waiting on Firefly and Nineball hop rubbers each of which is in the post. I'll post up some groupings from a black and decker workmate once it is all broken in (1000 rounds boo! )

 

All the best,

[370rsoft]

Hello guys - I just found this thread and have just finished reading it. Some great info and ideas in here!

 

Just to let you know I am getting some 14mm negative thread silencer adapters made by a local engineering company to replace both the standard AICS barrel end plug and the King Arms AICS VSR conversion kit end plug. There is a thread up in the Sniping Haven about it. No prices yet however I should have some sort of quotation for a run of 5 of each soon.

 

Aside from that I have a PDI 6.01mm tightbore sitting in my kitchen right now and I am waiting on Firefly and Nineball hop rubbers each of which is in the post. I'll post up some groupings from a black and decker workmate once it is all broken in (1000 rounds boo! )

 

All the best,

 

Has anyone sucessfuly used the 2roy hop conversion with the AICS?