sekiryu Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Well, I've switched to duster gas for my Maruzen P99s, but here's the issue: When I used propane, I was able to fill the mags for a good 30 seconds to one minute, and had enough gas to fire off 4 complete mags. Now that I use duster, I can only fill the mag up for about 5 seconds, and only about the first 5-10 shots are powerful enough to produce a complete blowback cycle, and I run out of gas right about at 1 mag. What's the deal? Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 You might be doing it wrong, I'll post up a few pics of how to fill it correctly. ALso, are you using Falcon Dustoff? That's the weaker 152a. Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I'm using Memorex. I didn't know there was a wrong way to fill the mag other than not tilting the can upside down..... Well, it will fire off all the rounds in the magazine, but there isn't enough gas left to cycle the slide enough to lock open. Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 You might be doing it wrong, I'll post up a few pics of how to fill it correctly. ALso, are you using Falcon Dustoff? That's the weaker 152a. I'm pretty sure difluoroethane (152a, but I have a hard time with all these numbers) is slightly more powerful that 134a, if its boiling point is anything to go by. Lately all duster I've been able to find is 152a, with that damn bittering agent. Memorex (the one in a sliver and green can, anyway) is difluoroethane. No clue what your problem is, though. I've been able to get of a noticeably higher amount of shots with duster compared to propane. Edit: Oops, R152a actually should be a little less powerful going strictly on boiling point. But I still don't think it would be a noticeable amount. I've not tested it though. Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I know for a fact that 152a has a lower pressure than 134a. Try shooting a gun with radioshack duster in one mag, and falcon dust-off (12oz) in another. Significant difference in the strength of blowback. Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 You don't use an adaptor? I broke off the cap, cut a small section of the straw off, inserted it into the nozzle, and sealed it... Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 There may be a leak in the seal....if there is one, then the gas would expel from the straw before the right. amount of liquid gas is in the mag. Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 But it fills fine for about 8 seconds or so, then it overflows. Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Video! http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maruzenqo9.flv Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Good video for the purpouse. You are filling corectly, and you are filling the mag cmpleatly. Do you have a metal slide on the gun? This might mean that the gas is not powerfull enough to run the gun. or an enhanced recoil spring as well i guess. Can you go back to propane to make sure that it isnt a problem with the gun, just a problem with the gun using duster. Link to post Share on other sites
Curious Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I always though Propane =/= Duster Gas. Propane is green gas. Duster Gas is 134a. Theres the difference right there? Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm being an idiot Dom Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Can you go back to propane to make sure that it isnt a problem with the gun, just a problem with the gun using duster. Not without breaking a hammer spring. No metal slide. Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I always though Propane =/= Duster Gas. Propane is green gas. Duster Gas is 134a. Theres the difference right there? Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm being an idiot Dom Duster gas is sometimes 152a, sometimes 134a, and sometimes mixed. 152a is even lower powered than 134a. Link to post Share on other sites
snowman Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I always though Propane =/= Duster Gas. Not really sure what =/= is supposed to represent. More? Less? The Same? Propane IS green and produces MORE power, but is less efficient than 134a and Duster gas (which is similar). Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Xaccers Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Not really sure what =/= is supposed to represent. More? Less? The Same? Propane IS green and produces MORE power, but is less efficient than 134a and Duster gas (which is similar). Cheers. Does not equal. Hence the line through the equal signs. Link to post Share on other sites
snowman Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Does not equal. Hence the line through the equal signs. Ah! Got it Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
r.ocelot Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Warm up the magazine a little. I put mine under running hot water for a few seconds before use. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 HFC134a expands more than C3H8 (propane aka. green gas). So you should get more shots per fill from duster, if it's the HFC134a kind. I've observed this phenomena with all airsoft guns I've used. Especially the more delicate GBB models like Marushin, WA, Tanaka and Maruzen run like a dream on HFC134a, but start hickuping on green unless modified. Doesn't really help with your problem, maybe, but should rule out some things. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Chris North Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I know for a fact that 152a has a lower pressure than 134a. Try shooting a gun with radioshack duster in one mag, and falcon dust-off (12oz) in another. Significant difference in the strength of blowback. Just tried that, seems you're right. I checked the surface temp of each mag to make sure they were the same, shot them in the same spot with an ambient temp of about 55F, and one of them (I'm guessing it would be the 134a) seemed to shoot harder. I didn't notice a substantial (if any) change in the blowback, but with one mag, all of the BBs fell a lot shorter than with the other. A few even over hopped. Thank you, I think I'm going to stick with this Radioshack brand. No bittering agent either. Nothing on-topic to add of course. Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 HFC134a expands more than C3H8 (propane aka. green gas). So you should get more shots per fill from duster, if it's the HFC134a kind. If it expands more, wouldn't that mean that it would take up more space in the mag, hence less shots per fill? Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 What I meant is that a fixed volume of liquid HFC134a transforms into a larger volume of gas, than the same (fixed) volume of liquid propane. The amount of liquid in the magazine is controlled by the magazine itself, so it is equal between the two. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Ah, I see. I just don't see how everyone else is getting more shots per mag than I am. Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 I tried hot water, and I tried replacing the metal threaded barrel with the original plastic one. No improvement Link to post Share on other sites
sekiryu Posted November 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 It must be the mags. I was able to fill a USP mag in a good 12 seconds. Oddly, when I use propane, the smaller P99 mags hold double the amount the USP mags do. Switch to duster, and it's the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites
Curious Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 Woah. It takes you 12 seconds to fill a mag? Or is that normal? Experience is usually about 5-6 seconds with me. (TM 226, Capa, WA 6", WA PV, Glock 18 - all 5-6 secs) Dom Link to post Share on other sites
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