Heavy BB-s with great quality

[bjorn]

I just returned from another test shooting with my VSR and I just could not keep it in me.

 

THERE IS A GREAT NEED FOR A GOOD QUALITY HEAVY WEIGHT BB!

 

About a year ago or so there was nothing on the market except Maruzen SGM-s (0.29g) and some Straight and Digicon 0.36 which were pretty much ######. Then came MadBull and all the others from the same OEM factory (0.36g green, 0.40g yellow and 0.43g black/gray ones). At first I thought my problems were solved since MadBull promised +-0.01 deviation and superb quality. Yeah, so much for that. The inconsistency is horrible, lots of air bubbles and the the bb-s leave residue on the hopup rubber which also effects accuracy.

 

Why am I even discussing this topic?

Simple - with Maruzen SGM-s I simply can not get straight hopup line over 60m (550 FPS @0.2g). I have to either overhop or compensate. The accuracy and consistency of flightpath is great, no problems there. Simply the bb does not carry enough kinetic energy to fly further.

 

On the other hand from the same rifle a 0.43g bb goes up to 80m at the same shooting trajectory as before with SGM-s. Accuracy on the other hand decreases and wildshots start to occur. This is due to bad bb inconsistencies and residue that is left on the hopup rubber. Chrono readings say the same.

 

FPS with SGM-s: +- 0.1 m/s

FPS with 0.43g: +- 1 m/s or more. Some wildshots are up to 4 m/s inconsistant.

 

So, the solution?

Well for the past 6 months I have been waiting for the Bioval T-Rex 0.42g bb-s. They are supposed to be with the same quality as their 0.27g BBBMAX ones (read: super great), but with a much higher mass. Since then there has not been any news about them for a few months and they have been delayed to 2010. I hope that maybe other manufacturers as well have spotted the popularity of the "MadBull or OEM" 0.40 and 0.43g BB line and now concider to start production of a similar product with better quality.

 

I myself for instance am ready to pay up to 2 times the price of a SGM bb if I can get the same quality but 1.5x the mass.

 

Anyone else who agrees or disagrees with the need for good quality heavy bb-s please do say so here. Share your thoughts.

 

Best regards,

 

Bjorn

 

P.S. Mods - I did not post this under BB-s topic since I believe it is a topic that needs to stay separetely. If you feel otherwise, then merge this into BB-s discussion.

[RC-1138]

Even for non-dedicated sniper's heavy, consistent BB's are a godsent. Quite frankly any gun with a hopup can due for heavier, well made bb's. For instance my Star M4A1 will get about 120 feet with cheap matrix .20's *shivers at the thought* however with heavier .30's from madbull (not the best but a big step up from Matrix) I get around 165/168 flat trajectory and baring a few wildshots, pretty darn accurate. I haven't tried Biovals for one thing, I'm waiting to see what long term uses does to barrels and hopups, but I am hoping it's good cause they look like the answer.

[Bane]

If someone, somewhere, would gift us the glory of the Heavy, Precision, Quality BB, then i will worship the very ground they walk upon.

 

On my M14 using SGM's i can get an accurate shot out to about 60-70m, and almost as accurate with fliers out to 80 or so.

 

occasionally i will get the odd 120-meter shot, but few and far between kills at this range.

 

I just hope somebody's listening (Reading) and will help us in our quest for the perfect heavy BB

 

 

 

 

[farrasdevell]

i have to admit to being pretty happy with the madbull .4's personally. ok they have a bit of swing but that said they are only as good as my rifle can shoot them out (not a perfectionist).

In my aw.338 washed madbull .4's are predictable upto 70mt past that they get a bit flyhappy, i am content with this in my vsr they are pretty stable to 60mt and either carry true or go off on a tangent 1in 15shots i'd say.

 

I'm yet to try biovals but from reports of the .27's i have high hopes for the .42.

 

what would the optimum weight be?

[Nookie]

i second Bjorns holy crusade on the heavy BB-s . the bioval bb-s are much awaited , especially in these countries witch do not allow regular bb-s to be used (only bio bb-s)

 

i personally would like a 0,50g BB to be made. i was having these dreams of an 8mm sniper platform, since the various heavy weight bb-s for 8mm series. but since there are no available upgrade parts to 8mm systems , it's only a whizz in the wind...

 

so yeah... the need 4 heavy BB-s is out there

[RC-1138]

i second Bjorns holy crusade on the heavy BB-s . the bioval bb-s are much awaited , especially in these countries witch do not allow regular bb-s to be used (only bio bb-s)

 

i personally would like a 0,50g BB to be made. i was having these dreams of an 8mm sniper platform, since the various heavy weight bb-s for 8mm series. but since there are no available upgrade parts to 8mm systems , it's only a whizz in the wind...

 

so yeah... the need 4 heavy BB-s is out there

 

I can't say for 8mm, but there are .50g 6mm bb's. The only problem is their metal... so yeah most skirmish sites (and players) won't want to see em.

[farrasdevell]

i believe that there is a limit to the density/mass that can be achieved witht eh available materials, this changes even further with biobbs. I have never tried steel/allu bb's even for target shooting but i daresay the weight/range/accuracy trade off must have an optimum point.

 

[bjorn]

Good to hear that I am not the only one. The problem arised after the completion of my latest VSR build. It shoots straight and true without any odd flyers at all - if using SGM-s. But with 0.40g and 0.43g the shot group is rather bad considering the bigger weight. But without a heavy bb the maximum range decreases a lot and so does the percentage of confirmed kills.

 

For test purposes I have also shot perfect ball bearings - 0.87g full metal bb-s. With only 500 FPS @ 0.2g they went straight and true up to 90 meters hitting a standing person 6-7 times out of 10. Not even in heavy wind there was no problem hitting torsos @ 70m. You could even use mil-dot scale to calculate drop and wind compensation.

 

So to conclude my findings - heavy is good. No bubbles is good. Perfect roundness is even better. If a factory can put all the 3 together and make a range of bb-s from 0.36g to 0.50g or so they would get massive orders as already seen with the not so good Madbull and OEM bb-s. Almost every company in airsoft are now selling them.

 

Bjorn

[RC-1138]

i believe that there is a limit to the density/mass that can be achieved witht eh available materials, this changes even further with biobbs. I have never tried steel/allu bb's even for target shooting but i daresay the weight/range/accuracy trade off must have an optimum point.

 

I only used them once in my HurricanE Barret and I didnt have alot (less than 20) so as far as zeroing goes I couldnt and tbh while I noticed they were more accurate, I didnt see any kind of increase in range over a .30+.

[bjorn]

I only used them once in my HurricanE Barret and I didnt have alot (less than 20) so as far as zeroing goes I couldnt and tbh while I noticed they were more accurate, I didnt see any kind of increase in range over a .30+.

 

 

That is because you used them with an AEG hopup unit. Only KJW M700 and VSR hopup units with modified arms can give enough spin to make a 0.87g bb fly straight. Ofcourse - that kind of mass is total overkill but for testing purpose it worked and showed that even super heavy bb-s can be used in airsoft rifles with good results. At higher velocities (600 FPS @ 0.2g) the same bb-s can fly up to 150m hitting a 1x1m square target effectively.

 

Bjorn

[RC-1138]

That is because you used them with an AEG hopup unit. Only KJW M700 and VSR hopup units with modified arms can give enough spin to make a 0.87g bb fly straight. Ofcourse - that kind of mass is total overkill but for testing purpose it worked and showed that even super heavy bb-s can be used in airsoft rifles with good results. At higher velocities (600 FPS @ 0.2g) the same bb-s can fly up to 150m hitting a 1x1m square target effectively.

 

Bjorn

 

.87g seems a bit excessive no? I'm not going to do the math but at a mental glance I dont think backspin could counteract the weight enough to keep it flying, much less level, for any sort of range.

[bjorn]

.87g seems a bit excessive no? I'm not going to do the math but at a mental glance I dont think backspin could counteract the weight enough to keep it flying, much less level, for any sort of range.

 

 

Yes, it is excessive for airsofting, but for test purposes it showed that it DOES work. I know it seems strange, but 90m effective range from a 500fps boltie was pretty damn amazing for me too. It just proves the point that for Bolties need rather higher weight then lower weight as long as the bb consistency stays the same.

 

 

More on topic: if Bioval 0.42g T-Rex will be as good as the 0.27g BBBMAX then I guess this problem would be solved. I am although a bit sceptic about this before I get a sample or a package to do some testshooting.

 

I guess there is nothing left to do then just wait.

 

Bjorn

[DarkLite]

KSC 0.3gs are fantastic, if they started making 0.4gs I'd *suitcase* solid gold.

[L4byr1nth]

I had no idea the Madbull 0.40g's left any kind of residue.

 

My Blaster 0.40's (Madbull OEM) don't appear to be coated in anything at all.

 

Ben.

[jkpics]

Try WE's series of heavy BB's, I think they are good, but don't know if the are great.

[RC-1138]

Yes, it is excessive for airsofting, but for test purposes it showed that it DOES work. I know it seems strange, but 90m effective range from a 500fps boltie was pretty damn amazing for me too. It just proves the point that for Bolties need rather higher weight then lower weight as long as the bb consistency stays the same.

 

 

More on topic: if Bioval 0.42g T-Rex will be as good as the 0.27g BBBMAX then I guess this problem would be solved. I am although a bit sceptic about this before I get a sample or a package to do some testshooting.

 

I guess there is nothing left to do then just wait.

 

Bjorn

 

Since I think it's safe to assume your shooting all these through a tightbore, do us (me) a favor, after you testfire the Biovals, tell us what, if anything, it does to the barrel (something I've found can be hit or miss) as believe it or not, cheaper bb's are less damaging as they "deform" inside the barrel rather than scratch it.

[bjorn]

KSC 0.3gs are fantastic, if they started making 0.4gs I'd *suitcase* solid gold.

 

Agreed!

 

 

I had no idea the Madbull 0.40g's left any kind of residue.

 

My Blaster 0.40's (Madbull OEM) don't appear to be coated in anything at all.

 

Ben.

 

They are not coated in anything but you should check your hopup rubber after 300 shots or so. You can clearly see either yellowish (from 0.40g) or greyish (0.43g) residue left on the hopup rubber nub that has contact with the bb. This does not happen with SGM-s. Also - if you try to scratch bb-s on sand paper then Madbulls or OEM leaves a good stripe whilst SGM-s do not.

 

 

Try WE's series of heavy BB's, I think they are good, but don't know if the are great.

 

Same OEM factory as all the others. No point really.

 

 

Since I think it's safe to assume your shooting all these through a tightbore, do us (me) a favor, after you testfire the Biovals, tell us what, if anything, it does to the barrel (something I've found can be hit or miss) as believe it or not, cheaper bb's are less damaging as they "deform" inside the barrel rather than scratch it.

 

Yes, different tightbores. After using BBBMAX biovals I have not found any residue, scratches or any other damage to the inner barrel. I must admit that I have tried to keep them both (bb-s and inner barrel) as clean as possible and neither have I witnessed a bb jam with any of these bb-s.

 

When and if at all there will be T-Rex 0.42g bb-s available I will use them without thinking twice since I believe they do not do any harm to the inner barrel or bucking if not used by morons (read: throw bb-s into mud and sand, then insert into mag and start shooting).

 

Bjorn

 

 

[yee245]

They are not coated in anything but you should check your hopup rubber after 300 shots or so. You can clearly see either yellowish (from 0.40g) or greyish (0.43g) residue left on the hopup rubber nub that has contact with the bb. This does not happen with SGM-s. Also - if you try to scratch bb-s on sand paper then Madbulls or OEM leaves a good stripe whilst SGM-s do not.

Also, if you take Madbull BBs, like the .43s, and just rub them on regular paper, they act like a sort of pencil, and the BB will flatten as it rubs off.

 

As for other brands of heavier BBs that are not the typical .36/.40/.43 in the green/tan/black all from that same factory, Vanaras has a .36g BB that is not the same. It has no air bubbles and leaves no residue after rubbing on paper. The downside is that they don't have great diameter consistency, and they are black (if it matters). It's in the chart I have in the BB comparison thread (page 52 or something). Below is a picture of the insides of one (no air bubbles), and they weigh anywhere from about .353g up to about .376g.

 

Goldenball also makes some heavy BBs including a .36g and .40g, but the downside is that they are black. This might not bother some people, but they do exist. I haven't had a chance to check them out and add to my measurements list. I'll reserve judgment on them until I measure the .30s I have, since the only Goldenball BBs I've had experience with so far are their tracers (old and new).

 

There is also some sort of orange .40g BB and an orange .43g BB, and again, I haven't had a chance to get any and measure them (then see how they do).

[bjorn]

Vanaras 0.36g bbs - I am aware of them but since they are only 0.36g and black then I just sticked with white SGM-s.

 

I have not seen any GoldenBall 0.40g anywhere being sold. If they are as well black then it still is a major problem. I would be ready to buy a sample pack of GoldenBall 0.40g if anyone can let me know where I can buy them with international shipping for a reasonable fee.

 

About the orange 0.43g bbs - they are one of the worst bb-s I have even seen. They are just like they look - oranges as in fruits. Lots of bubbles, creeks and defect in surface. No point even testing them. Although their visibility was OK I must admit. That was about a year ago. Maybe they have not bettered theyr quality control however I though it.

 

Bjorn

[yee245]

I've only seen Goldenball .36g and .40g listed at one place (Airsoft Atlanta http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/ProductDetai...ductCode=65522), and I don't believe they ship internationally. At $15 for a jar plus about $8 shipping, plus the international shipping (if you had someone in the USA buy them, then ship them to you), it would be a very expensive 1000 BBs, though if they only sent like half the jar, the international shipping wouldn't be as much, though still overall a very expensive sample.

 

As for the orange BBs, the ones that I've seen in the USA, I've heard fairly good things about, if I recall, so they may be different from the ones you've seen. In the somewhat near future, I'm planning on making some orders from a couple places that carry certain types of BBs to compare, though currently no plans on an order for the Goldenball BBs. In hindsight, I probably should have ordered some of those in my last order from that store, just to have some, since it would save on shipping overall. So, I may be grabbing a bag of the orange .40s and the orange .43s if I do end up making those orders. I'll give you a PM (if I remember) if I end up changing my plans and do end up ordering a jar of the Goldenballs.

 

Also, I could just be imagining it, but I feel like BB prices in Europe are much higher than here in the USA. A bag of G&G bio .28g BBs is about $20 here, but on your site, it appears the same thing is about €22, which is closer to like $32, so about 50% higher. So, maybe something like the maybe $34 (€23) it would take to have someone order it, then resend it to Estonia would be fairly reasonable for 1000 .40g BBs.

[bjorn]

I've only seen Goldenball .36g and .40g listed at one place (Airsoft Atlanta http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/ProductDetai...ductCode=65522), and I don't believe they ship internationally. At $15 for a jar plus about $8 shipping, plus the international shipping (if you had someone in the USA buy them, then ship them to you), it would be a very expensive 1000 BBs, though if they only sent like half the jar, the international shipping wouldn't be as much, though still overall a very expensive sample.

 

As for the orange BBs, the ones that I've seen in the USA, I've heard fairly good things about, if I recall, so they may be different from the ones you've seen. In the somewhat near future, I'm planning on making some orders from a couple places that carry certain types of BBs to compare, though currently no plans on an order for the Goldenball BBs. In hindsight, I probably should have ordered some of those in my last order from that store, just to have some, since it would save on shipping overall. So, I may be grabbing a bag of the orange .40s and the orange .43s if I do end up making those orders. I'll give you a PM (if I remember) if I end up changing my plans and do end up ordering a jar of the Goldenballs.

 

Also, I could just be imagining it, but I feel like BB prices in Europe are much higher than here in the USA. A bag of G&G bio .28g BBs is about $20 here, but on your site, it appears the same thing is about €22, which is closer to like $32, so about 50% higher. So, maybe something like the maybe $34 (€23) it would take to have someone order it, then resend it to Estonia would be fairly reasonable for 1000 .40g BBs.

 

Yup, BB-s cost a LOT more in EU. In case you do start ordering them, let me know. I would definietly be interested in a sample bag.

 

Bjorn

 

[Swerve]

I've only seen Goldenball .36g and .40g listed at one place (Airsoft Atlanta Also, I could just be imagining it, but I feel like BB prices in Europe are much higher than here in the USA. A bag of G&G bio .28g BBs is about $20 here, but on your site, it appears the same thing is about €22, which is closer to like $32, so about 50% higher. So, maybe something like the maybe $34 (€23) it would take to have someone order it, then resend it to Estonia would be fairly reasonable for 1000 .40g BBs.

 

BB prices in the UK are about at your level

 

Blaster Devil 0.28's are around £12 a bottle, roughly the same as your $20 4k of Madbull 0.25 bios come in at around £14

[bjorn]

Got a nice and fast reply from guys at Bioval when asking about the T-Rex bb-s. Here is the answer:

 

Good Morning Bjorn,

 

Thank you for your interest in Bioval BBB products.

 

The 0.42g BBBTREX will be launched in the first quarter of 2010. We will

release pictures of the BBBTREX soon.

 

Bioval will be launching a number of other new items in the first half of

2010. Our corporate web site at www.bioval.net will also become open to the

public very.

 

Best Wishes for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,

 

Stefano Valentini

CEO

 

Bioval Technologies

Via delle Scuole, 15a

6900 Lugano-Cassarate

Switzerland

T: +41 79 25 33 728

F: +41 91 26 06 905

steve@bioval.net

www.bioval.net

 

Swiss Precision Designed

 

Swiss Made

 

All I can say is lets wait and hope for the best.

 

Bjorn